1st Test: India v Australia at Pune on Feb 23-27, 2017 - AUST WIN BY 333 RUNS

[Bazal]

Clarke's record as captain overall is about par for Australian test captains (and poor compared to Ponting, Waugh, Taylor) - funnily enough great teams develop great captaincy records.

Clarke like Ponting had some horrific series losses - I dislike most things I hear about him, but on field he did ok for the most part as captain

The difference between Clarke and Ponting is the situation the team was in at the beginning and end of their tenure. Ponting took over the best team in the world and left it a shambles. Yeah, he lost some absolute greats over that time but he fostered an environment where mediocrity was accepted readily so long as you were buddies with his buddies, he was tactically inept, and because he was a popular leader he managed to turn the Aussie team into a popularity contest.

Clarke came into a side well and truly on the slide and took it back to the top. He shattered Ponting's clique that had controlled the side for so long and, whether he was well liked or not, turned it back into a functioning team. He was a far better tactician even if he wasn't the people person Ponting was (and if you weren't Ponting's mate he wasn't much of a people person).

I genuinely believe the major reason Ponting is perceived higher than Clarke is that Aussie cricket fans expect their captains to fit a stereotype, and Clarke definitely didn't. Ponting was the stereotype.

 

[Meapro Ham]

The difference between Clarke and Ponting is the situation the team was in at the beginning and end of their tenure. Ponting took over the best team in the world and left it a shambles. Yeah, he lost some absolute greats over that time but he fostered an environment where mediocrity was accepted readily so long as you were buddies with his buddies, he was tactically inept, and because he was a popular leader he managed to turn the Aussie team into a popularity contest.

Clarke came into a side well and truly on the slide and took it back to the top. He shattered Ponting's clique that had controlled the side for so long and, whether he was well liked or not, turned it back into a functioning team. He was a far better tactician even if he wasn't the people person Ponting was (and if you weren't Ponting's mate he wasn't much of a people person).

I genuinely believe the major reason Ponting is perceived higher than Clarke is that Aussie cricket fans expect their captains to fit a stereotype, and Clarke definitely didn't. Ponting was the stereotype.

Nice work of fiction there.

You're obviously a big fan of Clarke. Great batsman yes, good captain tactically but obviously a divisive figure off the field.

 

[Bazal]

Nice work of fiction there.

You're obviously a big fan of Clarke. Great batsman yes, good captain tactically but obviously a divisive figure off the field.

Nothing fictional about it. Pontings boys club was common knowledge at the time and it was the reason Katich hated Clarke, who refused to be "one of the lads" with the old boys. Kat freely admits this

Clarke was a great batsman, and a good captain. I liked him as a player and I felt he had some shortcomings as a captain, but I just don't get the hatred from so many fans. He was a better captain than Ponting

 

[hineyrulz]

Baz has nailed it better then I ever could, Waugh handed Ponting the keys to a Ferrrari and Ponting handed over Clarke a Datsun 180b.

 

[Meapro Ham]

Nothing fictional about it. Pontings boys club was common knowledge at the time and it was the reason Katich hated Clarke, who refused to be "one of the lads" with the old boys. Kat freely admits this

Clarke was a great batsman, and a good captain. I liked him as a player and I felt he had some shortcomings as a captain, but I just don't get the hatred from so many fans. He was a better captain than Ponting

Yeah sure. Show me where Katich "freely admits" to any of that.

This making out of Clarke to be some kind of saviour who cleaned up Ponting's mess and took the team from ruins back to the top, please. They were clearly an unhappy team during Clarke's' time and no more successful than under Ponting.

 

[Bazal]

Yeah sure. Show me where Katich "freely admits" to any of that.

This making out of Clarke to be some kind of saviour who cleaned up Ponting's mess and took the team from ruins back to the top, please. They were clearly an unhappy team during Clarke's' time and no more successful than under Ponting.

Lol. Way to over dramatise my point. Clarke wasn't a saviour, he just took the side from one era (that of Punter and his mates, which ended wth the side ranked about 4th in the world IIRC) to another (one where you needed to be more than a dressing room hero to play for Australia and where we regained the top ranking). Neither got much assistance from the selectors at times, neither were perfect or in any way comparable to the great Aussie skippers, both had to deal with some rubbish coaches.

Pup wanted to go out with the new boys, Bollinger and Ronald McDonald. Katich took exception to this. Clarke took exception to Katich and Hussey wanting them to stay around the sheds. Clarke blew up, Katich nearly thumped him, Clarke walked out. I presume poor Dougie and Ronald were made to be very uncomfortable about the whole thing. Katich has always said he felt that Clarke didn't fit in to "the group" with the senior players. Pretty clear, really.

Honestly Clarke particularly as a young player had his issues with ego, and Katich was no better. Funny Ponting doesn't get the blame for the discord within his team, but Clarke does in his, though....

 

[Bazal]

Baz has nailed it better then I ever could, Waugh handed Ponting the keys to a Ferrrari and Ponting handed over Clarke a Datsun 180b.

Nah mate, it's fiction, made it all up....!

 

[Meapro Ham]

Lol. Way to over dramatise my point. Clarke wasn't a saviour, he just took the side from one era (that of Punter and his mates, which ended wth the side ranked about 4th in the world IIRC) to another (one where you needed to be more than a dressing room hero to play for Australia and where we regained the top ranking). Neither got much assistance from the selectors at times, neither were perfect or in any way comparable to the great Aussie skippers, both had to deal with some rubbish coaches.

Pup wanted to go out with the new boys, Bollinger and Ronald McDonald. Katich took exception to this. Clarke took exception to Katich and Hussey wanting them to stay around the sheds. Clarke blew up, Katich nearly thumped him, Clarke walked out. I presume poor Dougie and Ronald were made to be very uncomfortable about the whole thing. Katich has always said he felt that Clarke didn't fit in to "the group" with the senior players. Pretty clear, really.

Honestly Clarke particularly as a young player had his issues with ego, and Katich was no better. Funny Ponting doesn't get the blame for the discord within his team, but Clarke does in his, though....

So none of that has anything to do with Katich "freely admiiting" that Clarke didn't fit in with Ponting's "boys club".

More fiction.

 

[Bazal]

So none of that has anything to do with Katich "freely admiiting" that Clarke didn't fit in with Ponting's "boys club".

More fiction.

Haha. No point discussing it with someone who refuses to acknowledge things that are actually common knowledge. Clearly a Punter fanboy.

 

[Tiger Woody]

Just adding my 5 cents worth.
The tattooed show pony Clarke ruined 3 careers ,Katich,Symonds and Husseys one day selection..
All because Hussey didnt agree to go on Packmans big boat for an after party in Sydney.....
Clarke is a real brown tongue....Loves Packman and Warnieeeeee.
Funniest thing ive heard Pretty boy say is when he threatened Jimmy Anderson about breaking his arm.....Tattood pretty boy couldnt knock skin off a rice pudding....the stringbean he is.

 

[Tiger Woody]

and add his stupid kiddies laugh in the background when hes commentating on 9 makes it even worse

 

[Meapro Ham]

Haha. No point discussing it with someone who refuses to acknowledge things that are actually common knowledge. Clearly a Punter fanboy.

Now that is funny coming from someone who is quite clearly a Clarke fanboy. You've probably read his book and influenced by his spin on things.

No I'm not particularly a Ponting fan. I'm fairly neutral when it comes to both Ponting and Clarke.

 

[JJ]

Clarke is a self obsessed narcissist like his mate Warnie - that's the start and end of his problems

He's not fit to tighten Ponting's studs - Ponting wasn't a great captain (neither was Clarke) but he was undoubtedly one of the best bats Australia has produced, ever. Clarke just seems to be a vain merkin who can't stand anyone else being the centre of attention

 

[Red Bear]

Clarke always has seemed a carefully managed character devoid of personality of his own. It's tough to get a read on whether there is anything genuine about him. I think partly it's because all he really did was cricket from mid high school till last year.

He was, however, an excellent captain. Tactically very good, got a lot out of spinners, and a good batsmen as well. I suspect much of the dressing room stuff if the classic clash of ego's around an Aus cricket side - though the behaviour around the time of Husseys retirement sounded poor.

Symonds didn't help himself, but if you want someone to blame don't look at Clarke, look at Cricket Australia. Their caving on his racism complaint was disgusting. From there on in he played like someone who had all the joy of cricket taken away.

 

[Bazal]

Now that is funny coming from someone who is quite clearly a Clarke fanboy. You've probably read his book and influenced by his spin on things.

No I'm not particularly a Ponting fan. I'm fairly neutral when it comes to both Ponting and Clarke.

Haven't read a sportsman's book since probably Pontings last captains diary, maybe one of Clarke's early ones. Repetitive rubbish the lot of them...but you seem to enjoy fiction so hey, add that one as well.

 

[Bazal]

Just adding my 5 cents worth.
The tattooed show pony Clarke ruined 3 careers ,Katich,Symonds and Husseys one day selection..
All because Hussey didnt agree to go on Packmans big boat for an after party in Sydney.....
Clarke is a real brown tongue....Loves Packman and Warnieeeeee.
Funniest thing ive heard Pretty boy say is when he threatened Jimmy Anderson about breaking his arm.....Tattood pretty boy couldnt knock skin off a rice pudding....the stringbean he is.

This is what gets me. Symonds was a drunk, lazy cricketer completely uninterested in the team. He went fishing instead of attending his job, he was drunk on radio where he insulted other cricketers, and then to top it all off he turns up drunk TO A MATCH....and Clarke ruined his career? Please....Roy has absolutely no one to blame but himself.

 

[Red Bear]

Also whatever you say about him Clarke handled himself admirably during the Phil Hughes tragedy. He kept fronting the media and his eulogy was excellent. Very impressive.

 

[JJ]

1. Yeah, Symonds has only himself to blame - Katich is another matter.
2. Can't criticise Clarke around the Hughes situation, but not sure it's impressive - he thrives on the limelight, and was happy enough stepping into it (tragic circumstances notwithstanding)

 

[Bazal]

1. Yeah, Symonds has only himself to blame - Katich is another matter.
2. Can't criticise Clarke around the Hughes situation, but not sure it's impressive - he thrives on the limelight, and was happy enough stepping into it (tragic circumstances notwithstanding)

Katich was not given a contract by CA....you reckon Clarke had the board in his pocket?Katich showed his true colours when we was dropped, he acted like a petulant child...personally I lost a lot of respect for him and understood the decision not to offer him a contract. No doubt Clarke wouldn't have been that thrilled to have Kat in the team (would you want to play much with a bloke who, for whatever reason, had been inches away from thumping you?), but he would have dealt with it as he did other players.

CA were responsible for Kat, not Clarke. The captain might have a say in selections. He has zero say in who gets a contract.

 

[BestHookerFarrah]

Kat was about 65 years old when he did his Achilles in. CA were justified in not offering another contract.

Poor timing with his injury, just bad luck.