2005 Trading

[lockyno1]

Good point.

But there will be noone left by pick 52.

In this year's draft there will be nothing left after the top 10! The rest are hit and miss!

 

[CyberKev]

In this year's draft there will be nothing left after the top 10! The rest are hit and miss!

That's rubbish, Locky.

While the elite level players do not seem as strong as years like 2001 & 2004, the available talent in terms of depth looks as good as its ever been. There'll still be good pick-ups available into the 20s and 30s; and a few lucky clubs will snare a baragin from 40 on as is always the case.

 

[lockyno1]

That's rubbish, Locky.

While the elite level players do not seem as strong as years like 2001 & 2004, the available talent in terms of depth looks as good as its ever been. There'll still be good pick-ups available into the 20s and 30s; and a few lucky clubs will snare a baragin from 40 on as is always the case.

Yeah but few of the players in the 20's are getting wraps at all in the papers and by experts. There may be the odd one between 15-30 that becomes an absolute gun but I doubt it. The only one who keeps coming up is Murray who will almost definately be the no1 pick. The rest we will wait and see. Yes you may get a bargain and yes footballers mature at varying times but in the short term I can't see how many players from pick 20 onwards will be "stars". I can see some of them being solid, but that is about it.

 

[camsmith]

Weak draft this year, everyone knows it.

 

[CyberKev]

Weak draft this year, everyone knows it.

Stop talking sh*t, Cam.

Its widely acknowledged as an even draft NOT a weak draft. There's plenty of good gets on offer.

 

[CyberKev]

Yeah but few of the players in the 20's are getting wraps at all in the papers and by experts. There may be the odd one between 15-30 that becomes an absolute gun but I doubt it. The only one who keeps coming up is Murray who will almost definately be the no1 pick. The rest we will wait and see. Yes you may get a bargain and yes footballers mature at varying times but in the short term I can't see how many players from pick 20 onwards will be "stars". I can see some of them being solid, but that is about it.

???

In any given year you will only find the favoured few getting talked about in the media.

There's some very good gets in the 10-30 bracket; which is why I was stunned to see Sydney give up 19 for Ted Richards, who I can't see giving them anything more than a fit Saddington would.

 

[lockyno1]

???

In any given year you will only find the favoured few getting talked about in the media.

There's some very good gets in the 10-30 bracket; which is why I was stunned to see Sydney give up 19 for Ted Richards, who I can't see giving them anything more than a fit Saddington would.

I am an Essendon fan foremost and I am actually a bit dissapointed letting him go but he wanted to play in Sydney. That said he probally has a better chance of being a good player than someone in the draft. It may be an even draft but apart from Murray and the others that get picked inside the top 10, none of the others jump out at me saying they will be great. There is a big difference between a solid performer which could be anyone in the draft and someone who could turn out to be a great player. On those grounds it is an average draft, nothing more. There will be some good pickups no doubt but as a bombers fan if we get 2 or less duds from this draft I will be pleased!

 

[CyberKev]

I am an Essendon fan foremost and I am actually a bit dissapointed letting him go but he wanted to play in Sydney. That said he probally has a better chance of being a good player than someone in the draft. It may be an even draft but apart from Murray and the others that get picked inside the top 10, none of the others jump out at me saying they will be great. There is a big difference between a solid performer which could be anyone in the draft and someone who could turn out to be a great player. On those grounds it is an average draft, nothing more. There will be some good pickups no doubt but as a bombers fan if we get 2 or less duds from this draft I will be pleased!

You can't just think about how many players in a draft may become superstars. If you can get a player who is very good out of a draft then you should be well satisfied.

While Murphy is a tentative number 1 at this point, I tend to think Hurn will be the top player in the draft. At this point, none of the top end players stand out to the extent that some players have in the past, but there is nevertheless a good few who would be described as very, very good (as opposed to excellent).

Outside of these players, there are many players who would rank in the very good category, which is why experts are referring to this draft as a deep and even draft NOT a weak one.

With Sydney, if Essendon snare a player like Dale Thomas (very promising ruck rover who was best afield in the TAC GF) or Beau Muston (looked upon as a top five pick early in the year, until he broke his leg and missed the carnival) with pick 19, then Sydney will most likely live to regret it.

 

[camsmith]

Stop talking sh*t, Cam.

Its widely acknowledged as an even draft NOT a weak draft. There's plenty of good gets on offer.

Would you be saying that if Hawthorn didn't have any first round picks??

Is this draft better than last years? Sure theres always going to be some good talent in the draft, every year there is, just not alot of it, and in some years five draft picks in the top 22 means heaps, in others (like this year) it means very little.

Enough sh*t for ya?

 

[CyberKev]

Would you be saying that if Hawthorn didn't have any first round picks??

The only reason your pushing the misleading line that it is, is to make yourself feel better because Richmond don't have many.

Is this draft better than last years? Sure theres always going to be some good talent in the draft, every year there is, just not alot of it, and in some years five draft picks in the top 22 means heaps, in others (like this year) it means very little.

Whatever. If Richmond had 5 out of 22 picks in this draft you and Craig would be creaming yourselves and talking things up in true Tiger fashion. The reality is that seasoned footballer watchers (those without axes to grind) are calling this an even draft, which was the central reasoning behind clubs like Hawthorn, Port, Adelaide, West Coast & Essendon making a special effort to get picks in the top thirty.

Frankly, I suggest you get over your bitter Hawthorn fixation and concentrate on the problems Richmond have to contend with:

- Total reliance on an ageing forward with a dodgy knee;
- Paucity of capable KPP;
- Lack of leg speed across the ground;
- Lack of depth of talent;
- Inflexibility under the cap caused by operating under the Miller plan (hence your inability to offload Hall & Tivendale to make the necessary room for Fevola.

Then again, Richmond finished 12th this year and a cross section of their fans have been carrying on like they won a premiership, so I can see why you're happy with where you are at :roll:

 

[CyberKev]

Troy Selwood.

Would be a great get if he goes into the PSD.

Wouldn't get past Carlton or Collingwood if he did, more's the pity.

Both clubs have a great chance to boost their ailing midfield stocks come November.

 

[camsmith]

The only reason your pushing the misleading line that it is, is to make yourself feel better because Richmond don't have many.

Not at all. If Richmond wanted more we could have easily played all our young guys, shatter their confidence and then smile and pick up some early draft picks at the end of the season (or fool clubs into recieveing a dud player for 2 first round picks..:shock: )

Whatever. If Richmond had 5 out of 22 picks in this draft you and Craig would be creaming yourselves and talking things up in true Tiger fashion. The reality is that seasoned footballer watchers (those without axes to grind) are calling this an even draft, which was the central reasoning behind clubs like Hawthorn, Port, Adelaide, West Coast & Essendon making a special effort to get picks in the top thirty.

Richmond had our abundance of early draft picks last year, and put them to good use, No doubt there will be some superstars in this years draft, but hardly worth getting to excited over, do you think a Judd, Ball and Hodge will all be in this years draft?

Frankly, I suggest you get over your bitter Hawthorn fixation and concentrate on the problems Richmond have to contend with:

Dont worry if you look at my post's most of them will somehow contain something about Richmond in it, i never stop concentrating on them. At the moment im concentrating on the draft and on what richmond should do.

- Total reliance on an ageing forward with a dodgy knee;

The club is taking that into account, maybe why they were stupidly going after Fev. I believe they are trying to make Shulz into a forward once Richo leaves, mind you, he played pretty bloody well last season with a so called dodgy knee (how many games did he miss again?)

- Paucity of capable KPP;

Plenty of kids that can take that role in the future. But i agree, we are lacking in that area at this very moment, but isn't the future what you Hawthorn fans love to talk about so much, if so.. then were working on it.

- Lack of leg speed across the ground;

We got plenty of (young) players that can provide us with that, did you happen to catch the halftime entertainment at the GF?

- Lack of depth of talent;

Again look at our roster, plenty of young talent. Can't say much more than that, i could list those players, but who has the time these days?

- Inflexibility under the cap caused by operating under the Miller plan (hence your inability to offload Hall & Tivendale to make the necessary room for Fevola.

This the same Miller than turned our club around last year?

Then again, Richmond finished 12th this year and a cross section of their fans have been carrying on like they won a premiership, so I can see why you're happy with where you are at :roll:

I sure am happy, i enjoyed a year where i could go to the footy and know my team would put everything into the game (take the Vs Carlton game out lol) I saw a game plan and where TW wants to take us.
I saw the emergence of youngsters like delideo and Tuck, Gasper actually finding some form, Newmen working he's heart out, Richo again putting he's body on the line at every contest, i saw Richmond players actually enjoying their footy...

...I also saw the worst injury i have seen at a game of footy, no doubt about it, that took a lot out of us, although if we had beaten the Eagles the next week, things could have been different. Brown was a huge loss for us in a year where were flying, like 2001, we lost Gasper when we were looking good and like '95, we lost Richo when we came so close to getting into the big one.

Next year, with a little luck with injuries, the boys putting in the same effort in every games as they did last year, sticking to Terry's game plan.. we can easily find us sneaking into the finals.


And that is why many fans were carrying on like they won a premiership, who blames us, when it was been 24 years since we've played in the big one..we are allowed to get excited every now and then.

 

[CyberKev]

Not at all. If Richmond wanted more we could have easily played all our young guys, shatter their confidence and then smile and pick up some early draft picks at the end of the season (or fool clubs into recieveing a dud player for 2 first round picks..:shock: )

Meh,

A plethora of good youngsters went around in 2005 and there was little sign of any confidence being shattered. People are precious these days, forgetting that it wasn't entirely uncommon for young players aged 17-18 to be playing senior football in past times (when, if anything the game was far tougher).

To say nothing of how many young footballers will struggle at VFL level because of developing bad habits at the lower level and not being pushed to improve by the greater challenge of top flight football.

Richmond had our abundance of early draft picks last year, and put them to good use, No doubt there will be some superstars in this years draft, but hardly worth getting to excited over, do you think a Judd, Ball and Hodge will all be in this years draft?

None of the players appear to be quite at that level, although Hurn is surely a lot better than he seems (which is already very good) due to missing the preseason and combatting OP through the year.

I'm not fazed by the fact that Jordan Lewis isn't as good as Luke Hodge, any more than St Kilda fans would lament that Nick Reiwoldt isn't as good as Wayne Carey was.

Its like passing on a free Porsche, simply because it isn't a Lamborghini.

There may not be any Deledio's or Cooney's at the top of this draft, but there's a plethora of potential Lewis/Dal Santo/McLean types who will be well worth the effort. Its also clear that in terms of "outside midfielders", this draft looks to have better options available (deeper at least) than any of the past few drafts.

The talls aren't that far behind the Franklin/Roughead class and there are more on offer.

The club is taking that into account, maybe why they were stupidly going after Fev. I believe they are trying to make Shulz into a forward once Richo leaves, mind you, he played pretty bloody well last season with a so called dodgy knee (how many games did he miss again?)

Fevola would have been a great get for the Tigers.

Shulz will surely have a make-or-break year as he has been around the place for 3 years now without impressing. All the talk last summer was about playing him at CHB, and with Richmond making much of the importance of keeping Stafford to add height to the forward line (with Fevola missed), one would think that they may be reconsidering this option.

Plenty of kids that can take that role in the future. But i agree, we are lacking in that area at this very moment, but isn't the future what you Hawthorn fans love to talk about so much, if so.. then were working on it.

Depends which Hawthorn fan you're talking to. At any rate, I would be stunned if Richmond overlooked a KPP tall with pick 8. They can perservere with the lower chosen guys for a couple of seasons, and 1-2 may come on, but the reality is that if you want to get good odds of getting KPP strength you need to run with a few highly rated types. This means you have to run the risk of bombing out on a Tim Walsh, but the reality is that 8-9 in every 10 KPP types taken outside the first round of a draft will be Tim Walshes.

We got plenty of (young) players that can provide us with that, did you happen to catch the halftime entertainment at the GF?

Deledio, Tambling & Krakouer can all move nicely, but they're the exceptions to the rule. If the former two move into the midfield it will improve pace out of the centre (which is where Hawthorn needs to add it), but Richmond will be keen to inject some speed across half forward and half back (where Hawthorn isn't badly off). Mind you, extra pace won't matter much if it isn't accompanied by sound skills, so this is the recruiting challenge.

I sure am happy, i enjoyed a year where i could go to the footy and know my team would put everything into the game (take the Vs Carlton game out lol) I saw a game plan and where TW wants to take us.
I saw the emergence of youngsters like delideo and Tuck, Gasper actually finding some form, Newmen working he's heart out, Richo again putting he's body on the line at every contest, i saw Richmond players actually enjoying their footy...

Sounds good.

Next year, with a little luck with injuries, the boys putting in the same effort in every games as they did last year, sticking to Terry's game plan.. we can easily find us sneaking into the finals.

Ahhh injuries, the brutes. They are the great unknown when choosing potential ladder finishes. At Hawthorn we have not enjoyed a good injury run since the year 2000.

And that is why many fans were carrying on like they won a premiership, who blames us, when it was been 24 years since we've played in the big one..we are allowed to get excited every now and then.

I don't begrudge the club that at all.

But one would think, given the Tiger experiences over two nasty decades of plan & counterplan, and trial and error, that Tiger fans would be less eager to decry and mock the motives and strategies employed by other clubs.

 

[CyberKev]

Hmmm.

It seems that the Thurstans deal fell through because the Tobester couldn't get his act together and get a signed power of attorney to his manager.

Thurstans is not a dud, but he's hardly a superstar either, so I'll let it slide.

Interesting also that West Coast failed to move McDougall.

Its perhaps less surprising that Bolton remains firmly tied to the Bombers.

Rawlings was quite bizarre, with the Bulldogs actually giving up an earlier pick for a later pick just to sweeten the deal for the Kangaroos to take him off their hands.

Honestly.

Geelong put Rawlings through a full-on medical two years ago and the report came back, saying what Hawthorn already knew, that his knees were downright scary.

His rapidly deteriorating form at the Hounds indicated both a reduction in mobility and an accompanying lack of confidence, but perhaps the Kangaroos have a magical elixir on hand.

Saddington could do well with Carlton. He has talent and would be handy, if fit, off a flank. Surely it is only queries over his fitness that made Ted Richards seem a better prospect for the Swans?

Hay could perform soundly at the Kangaroos, although his back remains iffy and his skills are never going to improve. That being said, he's much better off with the Kangaroos than with Freo, given the likely impact of the hard Freo surface on his back. Will watch with interest.

I think McConnell was the best pick-up of the draft, but West Coast will be happy with pick 13, as this should allow them to get the particular youngster they have their eyes on.

 

[meltiger]

Good result for Hawthorn, who maintain an experienced core while continuing to bring in a strong sweep of the best young talent available.

Will need to reconsider options at fullback and full forward for 2006, but have a fab structure coming into place.

You (& most Hawthorn people) are making an exceptionally huge assumption that every single one of these kids makes it. All good to them if it does, but usually she doesn't work like that.

Personally, I think going down the loser St Kilda road is a huge, huge gamble.

Then again, it's better than conceding you are a perpetual middle running team like 1 club which brings us to the Rawlings/Hay trades...

Rawlings to the Kangaroos?

We did them a solid the first time around by delivering him to the Hounds.

Interesting one.

North Melbourne basically got him for nothing now, with the Dogs paying 450 over the next two years and the Roos 150. Dogs must have been DESPERATE to get rid of him.

Personally, still think he has potential as a 3rd backman, with a genuine CHB and FB in the same side. Hay gives them a Fullback, not sure of their CHB stocks though?

Hay.... most of you seem to have lost faith in him ... Gaspar had a very, very poor year last year, this year was bloody sensational. Why? The flow of ball coming from the oppositions midfield was less. A FB can only look as good as his midfield allows him too. Will be interesting to see if Hay is really yesterdays man, or if playing in a marginally better side will allow him some freedom to get back to AA form.

 

[meltiger]

you and Craig would be creaming yourselves and talking hings up in true Tiger fashion.

As opposed to Hawthorn fans who are stuck in the 80's in their dumb belief their club is still a power? When the reality is far, far from that.


Personally, I am happy with our trading period, and am happy we kept our first 3 picks in the draft. What I am really hoping is that finances stop us from drafting too many rookies this year and we load up next year.


Richmond have a fantastic team looking after our future on and off the field. Much more than you can really say for Hawthorn with deadhead mouthpieces like Derm and Dunstall around.

You whinge about Richmond people having a Hawthorn fixation ... Yet you Kev were the one who restarted the Richmond V Hawthorn argument in this thread. Does it really upset Pooh and Wee fans THAT much to see the fantastic football department we have over at Richmond?

Maybe you are all just jealius of our fantastic colors when you look at your own pathetic, ugly jerseys.

 

[CyberKev]

As opposed to Hawthorn fans who are stuck in the 80's in their dumb belief their club is still a power? When the reality is far, far from that.


Personally, I am happy with our trading period, and am happy we kept our first 3 picks in the draft. What I am really hoping is that finances stop us from drafting too many rookies this year and we load up next year.


Richmond have a fantastic team looking after our future on and off the field. Much more than you can really say for Hawthorn with deadhead mouthpieces like Derm and Dunstall around.

You whinge about Richmond people having a Hawthorn fixation ... Yet you Kev were the one who restarted the Richmond V Hawthorn argument in this thread. Does it really upset Pooh and Wee fans THAT much to see the fantastic football department we have over at Richmond?

Maybe you are all just jealius of our fantastic colors when you look at your own pathetic, ugly jerseys.

Instead of lowering myself to respond publicly to one of your ceaseless line of respect-deprived threads, I've sent you a PM.

 

[camsmith]

Please Kev, tell us all.

I didn't see mich wrong with the above threads, yours however.. if you are going to say something, say it here, if not... dont.

Why post here telling Craig to look at the PM, im sure he will see it.

 

[CyberKev]

Please Kev, tell us all.

I didn't see mich wrong with the above threads, yours however.. if you are going to say something, say it here, if not... dont.

Why post here telling Craig to look at the PM, im sure he will see it.

Please refrain from telling me what I should and shouldn't do thanks, its between him and me.

 

[camsmith]

Lighten up.

I was just pointing out, if it's between you and him, then great.. why bring it to this thread?