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2011 Rugby World Cup Discussion

Thomas

First Grade
Messages
9,658
yeah... those prices are f**king ridiculous.

im taking my young one to the All Blacks V Japan game in Hamilton and the Samoa V Wales game in Hamilton also.

it cost me a small fortune.... but its more for the young one to experience it than anything else.

That is crazy!

I saw France play Fiji in Brisbane in 2003, along with 40,000 people, and it cost me $20 for a ticket. $5 cups of Heineken weren't bad either. The ARU ran a great marketing campaign and there were fantastic crowds for most matches. Even the games in Tasmania and Adelaide.
 

hellteam

First Grade
Messages
6,532
Yeah the World Cup in Australia was really good. I went to plenty of games (friends had free tickets to all of them), and they were actually all interesting. I even watched Scotland vs USA and games like that and enjoyed it. Looking forward to October. Hope the weather isn't too bad over there in NZ
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,781
so the northern fans are thinking there in with a chance...
Any european fans here willing to fly the flag??

Lack of sustained magic may leave Irish eyes smiling
Stuart Barnes
July 11, 2011

This final had moments but, disappointingly, not a great deal more. A touch of the slide-rule sublime from the boot of Dan Carter, a devastating Digby Ioane dash and, most memorably, Will Genia forsaking his persistent chip kick to carve a hole through the Crusaders defence to break the 13-13 stalemate and deliver the winning points the Reds' second-half momentum promised.

These three tries will live a while in the memory, standing out all the more brightly against the backdrop of fierce competition and puzzling inadequacy. The endeavour was earnest, but any quality was swamped by the quantity of errors. It is the first time I have thought it this century, but the Heineken Cup champions would have thumped the best of the southern hemisphere.
Leinster's one area of weakness against a powerful pack is the scrum. But, against the Reds, they would have been markedly stronger even in their weakest facet. Indeed, had Super Rugby not made a howler and appointed Bryce Lawrence, a Kiwi referee with a weak concept of the set piece and a powerful determination not to favour his own countrymen, the Crusaders scrum would probably have shoved its way to victory.

Still, the Wallabies pack will not have Ben Daly turning in, showing his rump to the stands every scrum (and getting away with it until a belated 48th minute) and provincial rugby is not the same as the international equivalent. But, even so, Saturday saw the Southern Hemisphere's metaphorical superiority slip a few inches as the World Cup looms.

Graham Henry might just have been speaking the truth and not flattering the old world in that sly old way of his when he suggested a stronger World Cup showing from Ireland, France and England than most Tri Nations supporters expect.

Undoubtedly, international rugby is another level up, but if Ireland can stay in touch with Australia during their pool game, the Wallabies could be heading for an unexpected and unwanted quarter-final collision with the Springboks. The glaring flaw in the Reds' big-match effort is Australia's shining jewel.
Quade Cooper has garnered negative headlines for his fluid tackling technique, but it is his goal-kicking under pressure that should cause the most concern for Robbie Deans.

The rest of his game can be a carnival of marvels, but in front of goal he has the wrong sort of aura. The failed, hooked conversion of Will Genia's try and then the fading miss the other side of the posts to push his team clear of the Crusaders in the last 10 minutes had CHOKE written all over them. These errors lose tight games.

And it is not as if Deans has any other guaranteed options. Kurtley Beale is too much a genius to master the tedium of goal-kicking routines.

James O'Connor could be another of the World Cup hits, but is as prone to miss a crucial kick as to succeed, while Matt Giteau - the only Wallaby with a history of high percentage Test match success - is past his prime and thinking of France.

The flair of the Reds backs, combined with the Waratahs and Brumbies tight forward power, is a striking reminder of the French team who played some flowing rugby in the early stages here in the 2003 World Cup, but come the semi-final, the prose of Jonny Wilkinson erased the poetry of Frederic Michalak. The same fate may await Australia. They are leading contenders for the most fabulous flatterers in New Zealand.

Australia would be more likely to win the World Cup had they Ireland's Jonny Sexton at five-eighth.
Quade Cooper is the more kaleidoscopic talent, but the Irishman has a solidity beyond the Reds playmaker. Perhaps the Wallabies will run away from Ireland in the first hour, but the way Ireland destroyed England and the excellence of Leinster indicates this is unlikely. If it is 13-13 with 20 minutes left when these teams meet at pool stage, I would back Ireland on the evidence of the key indicators from Brisbane.

The news for New Zealand could also be better. They will need France's Romain Poite to officiate in order to maximise their world-dominant scrum. But will the Rugby World Cup encourage the same set-piece domination as we witnessed in 2007 when South Africa's soaring lineout maestro and master prompter, Fourie du Preez, impressed the old-school element but had the rest of the sporting world yawning?

The Reds stifled Richie McCaw, Kieran Read was anonymous, Dan Carter overdid the lazy lateral passing away from deep, which left Sonny Bill Williams threatening too far from the gain line; all this before even considering the claustrophobic pressures of home expectation.
Graham Henry knows his stuff.

from: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...yes-smiling-20110710-1h8t9.html#ixzz1Ry99Feff
 

hellteam

First Grade
Messages
6,532
Quade Cooper isn't the Wallabies kicker anyway. This guy is kidding himself. Who is Jonny Sexton?
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,781
hes a young flyhalf for ireland... ive only seen him a couple of times...

once live last season against the NZ Maori... and on the northern tour in dublin at the end of the year.

he looked really promising at the time.

seemed like your stereotypical NH first five... good kicker... good control...

put it this way... i was far more impressed with what i saw of him last year against the Maori and against the All Blacks in dublin than the entire time ive seen Ronan O'Gara.

O'Gara has to be the most overrated player in world rugby....

also look out for Rob Kearney... he was awesome in the SA lions series a couple of years ago... a big, big fullback with speed and skills.
 

Butters

Bench
Messages
3,899
It's gonna be a bit hard for Ireland to make the finals when they get beat by Italy in the pool stage.
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,781
shit... i didnt realize Ireland were in the same pool as Australia... :lol:

i now get the whole irish focus...

im thinking Australia should be too tough... especially over here...

but thing that worries me about Australia... and this is all my normal aussie bashing aside...

Australia have the backline and loose forwards to enable them compete to some degree against sides who are naturally expansive like NZ, SA & FRA.

but against sides who really aren't on there level... the likes of England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Italy & Argentina... they seem to struggle against them.

i think its because there tight five is such a weakness... it opens up an avenue for those sides to attack them.

while your guys scrum seems to be passable at the best of times... it can give the weaker sides a big opening to knock you guys over with boring 10 man rugby.

because of that... for me... Australia will always be competitive against NZ, SA & FRA...

but they always seem more susceptible to those lower sides... because of that weakness.

where as for NZ we've got a tight five who can at very worst, hold off any pack... to the point that it forces sides to beat us with more than just boring 10 man rugby... which alot of those lower sides dont have the ability to do...

the proof is the fact weve never lost a match to Ireland, Scotland, Italy or Argentina... never lost a world cup match to England... and wales haven't beaten us for over 40 years.

the problem for the all blacks will be sides like France, Australia & South Africa... sides capable of playing a game that will stretch us... and bring us out of our comfort zone.
 
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Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
Aussie tight five weakness is bullshit. There have been times that it hasn't been up to par, but the general weakness idea is wrong. The record speaks for itself.

The problem with Aussie rugby lately has been the lack of a reliable kicker. Easier shots are missed and pressure shots - who knows? This has been the no1 problem for the Wallabies since they decided to sack Matt Burke. There have been moments - but none of the consistency that RSA, NZ and England have displayed year after year.
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,781
Aussie tight five weakness is bullshit. There have been times that it hasn't been up to par, but the general weakness idea is wrong. The record speaks for itself.

The problem with Aussie rugby lately has been the lack of a reliable kicker. Easier shots are missed and pressure shots - who knows? This has been the no1 problem for the Wallabies since they decided to sack Matt Burke. There have been moments - but none of the consistency that RSA, NZ and England have displayed year after year.

i think your in denial there mate... and im not saying it to stir.

and the record indeed speaks for itself alright. losses to England, Wales, Scotland & Ireland all in the last 5 or so years because they were targeted and destroyed up front.

sure goalkicking would have saved you embarrassing yourself on a couple of those occasions.... but if the tight five wasn't such a weakness... those weaker northern sides wouldn't have anywhere to attack and the wallabies wouldn't be in situations where goalkicking would determine the outcome of the games.

just look at NZ's record... strong tight five... no losses to those weaker sides.
 
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shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,781
and im not the only one who feels that way about the wallabies scrum...

Wayne Smith... an Australian RU reporter... gives his view on the last seasons end of year tour... which was the wallabies last campaign.

Embarrassing scrum is entrenched
Wayne Smith
From: The Australian
November 08, 2010

AUSTRALIAN Test victories in Cardiff are never easily achieved so it might be churlish to quibble over this one.

But the sorry fact is that there is a lot to quibble over.

The starting point this time, the starting point every time, is the Wallabies' scrum. It would not be accurate to say it has become an utter embarrassment because, frankly, it has been an embarrassment for as long as most Australian rugby fans can remember.

The lack of a stable platform up front has cost the Wallabies the past two World Cups, both campaigns brought undone by England. There was no shame in losing to the old enemy in 2003 because England that year was a truly great side, but by 2007 Sir Clive Woodward's once-proud team had been reduced to playing one-dimensional rugby - and still that was good enough to eliminate Australia.



Now, once again, the Wallabies are wending their way to London with their scrum in tatters, there to face an England side salivating at the thought of all the humiliation it is going to inflict on them at Twickenham on Sunday (AEDT).

It is utterly inexcusable that a side as otherwise accomplished as Australia should have spent the best past of the last decade hobbling about on this accursed achilles heel. It's like Tiger Woods not being able to putt or Sachin Tendulkar not bothering to work on his forward defence.

Every team strikes periodic problems with different elements of its game but this is like third-generation unemployment. It has become entrenched, passed down from one Wallabies side to the next. Occasionally, a particularly nasty scrummaging episode will trigger a flurry of activity that delivers some short-term relief but then, Band-Aid applied, everyone soon moves on to something sexier. Meanwhile, the wound keeps festering.

Australia might not produce prop-shaped behemoths the way, say, South Africa does but that is not to say the raw material is not out there. The Commonwealth's strongest man, superheavyweight weightlifter Damon Kelly is an Australian. What's more, he's a rugby player from the same college, St Laurences, that produced Dan Crowley and Brendan Cannon. The only reason Kelly took up weightlifting was to improve his scrummaging yet he slipped through rugby's fingers.

Then there is Cameroon-born Simplice Ribouem, another Australian weightlifting gold medallist in Delhi. There is only one rugby player in Australia with a physique to match his, David Pocock, and yet no-one from rugby has ever so much as knocked on his door.

Speaking of Pocock, it has emerged that he is the reason Welsh coach Warren Gatland completely re-thought his ideas on the perfect build for an openside flanker. It seems that when Pocock, sans jersey, ventured into the Wales dressing room to have a drink with the opposition after last year's Cardiff Test, Gatland and everyone else there was gobsmacked by how strongly-built he was.

On the spot, Gatland decided he needed more muscle in the seven jersey, which explains why the most capped forward in Welsh rugby history, Martyn Williams, was made to suffer the indignity of coming on for his 100th Test without fanfare in the 64th minute against Australia on Saturday while Sam Warburton started the match. This is not to suggest that strength alone is the answer to Australia's set piece problems. Far from it. Scrummaging is infinitely more technical than that. But it's a starting point. And a start has to be made to solve the problem, even though it is now too late to do anything more than apply another Band-Aid before next year's World Cup.

The only time during the past decade when the Wallabies' scrum has shown any marked and sustained improvement was when Michael Foley was overseeing it. His parting gift to the Wallabies was to prepare the Australian scrum that humiliated England at Twickenham in 2008, when hooker Stephen Moore won the man of the match award but it could easily have gone to either of his props Benn Robinson or Al Baxter.

Foley was made to feel distinctly unloved and moved on to the Waratahs. Patricio Noriega now is in his place and while he has brought no end of enthusiasm to the job, there is no evidence of him introducing any technical improvement.

It would have been a travesty had Wales won on Saturday simply because it had a superior scrum. In every other element of play, the Welsh were battling to hold Australia. Yet solely on the back of scrum penalties, seven of them, Wales was less than a converted try down at the hour mark, 14-9 and again with only eight minutes left to play, 22-16.

Indeed, the men in scarlet actually closed to within a try of victory while they were down to 14 players, simply because they were smashing the Wallabies up front. And while all this nonsense was going on and the ground beneath the scrum was being ploughed, the best backline in world rugby was left to cool its heels.

In the end the tourists won, as they deserved to do.

But it was a strangely dispiriting victory, a victory that far from enhancing the aura around the Wallabies, actually exposed their vulnerability.
 

Butters

Bench
Messages
3,899
Last years scrum performance might've been relevant if Australia's best 2nd rower played.
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,781
Last years scrum performance might've been relevant if Australia's best 2nd rower played.
the locks are a tiny part of that puzzle...

the lack of quality props is the main issue. i dont think Australia have had a world class scrummager for close to 10 years. the last aussie prop that i remember anyone actually rated was Bill Young.

and theres been some deadset disgraceful guys ever since... Al Baxter & Matt Dunning... :lol: we all remember them being destroyed by Andrew Sheridan.

what about Rodzilla... :lol: he was built up to be the savior of the Australian scrum.

this is obviously something that has plagued aussie rugby for awhile... you would hope that the next batch of young props coming through will start to pay dividends for the wallabies.
 

Butters

Bench
Messages
3,899
the locks are a tiny part of that puzzle...

the lack of quality props is the main issue. i dont think Australia have had a world class scrummager for close to 10 years. the last aussie prop that i remember anyone actually rated was Bill Young.

and theres been some deadset disgraceful guys ever since... Al Baxter & Matt Dunning... :lol: we all remember them being destroyed by Andrew Sheridan.

what about Rodzilla... :lol: he was built up to be the savior of the Australian scrum.

this is obviously something that has plagued aussie rugby for awhile... you would hope that the next batch of young props coming through will start to pay dividends for the wallabies.

Ahh Rodzilla i remember the news reports on him in the build up to the 06 Bledisloe games. Can't believe they literally called him the savior of the Australian scrum :lol:

But yeah Australia's props have been pretty shithouse at scrummaging for a while now. Too much focus on ball skills etc. imo.

But that's all about to change with Ben Daley and James Slipper leading the way :cool:
 
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shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,781
Ahh Rodzilla i remember the news reports on him in the build up to the 06 Bledisloe games. Can't believe they literally called him the savior of the Australian scrum :lol:

But yeah Australia's props have been pretty shithouse at scrummaging for a while now. Too much focus on ball skills etc. imo.

But that's all about to change with Ben Daley and James Slipper leading the way :cool:

yeah... thats exactly what it is...

we went through the same thing a while back with the likes of Kace Meuws(sp?) & Yoda... we cared too much about what they did around the field and not enough on there core responsibilities.

and that goes with our lineout too... we still haven't recovered from that...

i think what weve come to realize is that you can still be a good player in open play and be excellent at the core tasks.

it just takes an extra focus on technique... which is where we are VERY lucky... we have the best scrum coach on planet... Mike Cronn... the guy turns ordinary scrummagers into destroyers regularly.

If i was the ARU... i would move heaven and earth to bring in Cronn... i know the French tried to get him... but the NZRFU offered him something massive to keep him.
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,781
Robinson out is a huge blow.
that certainly adds to the issue for sure... because he has come on so much since he started... he was the real anchor of that scrum... and if he could have held his own during the cup he would have certainly grabbed that world class tag.

now its down to a lot of the guys in the Reds pack... and while they did well to win... they were destroyed by the crusaiders pack.

the key for them is to be good enough to get parity against those lower sides... because while NZ, SA & FRA will probably target the aussie scrum... i think aussie have enough class around them to hang in there.

but you know that the likes of england will just scrum to gain a thousand penalties if there given half a chance.
 

hellteam

First Grade
Messages
6,532
shit... i didnt realize Ireland were in the same pool as Australia... :lol:

i now get the whole irish focus...

im thinking Australia should be too tough... especially over here...

but thing that worries me about Australia... and this is all my normal aussie bashing aside...

Australia have the backline and loose forwards to enable them compete to some degree against sides who are naturally expansive like NZ, SA & FRA.

but against sides who really aren't on there level... the likes of England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Italy & Argentina... they seem to struggle against them.

i think its because there tight five is such a weakness... it opens up an avenue for those sides to attack them.

while your guys scrum seems to be passable at the best of times... it can give the weaker sides a big opening to knock you guys over with boring 10 man rugby.

because of that... for me... Australia will always be competitive against NZ, SA & FRA...

but they always seem more susceptible to those lower sides... because of that weakness.

where as for NZ we've got a tight five who can at very worst, hold off any pack... to the point that it forces sides to beat us with more than just boring 10 man rugby... which alot of those lower sides dont have the ability to do...

the proof is the fact weve never lost a match to Ireland, Scotland, Italy or Argentina... never lost a world cup match to England... and wales haven't beaten us for over 40 years.

the problem for the all blacks will be sides like France, Australia & South Africa... sides capable of playing a game that will stretch us... and bring us out of our comfort zone.


I somewhat agree, England will be a major challenge. See what happened last time we played them, got smashed.

It will be really really interesting to see the way the Wallabies play this year. Obviously the Wallabies will be looking to carry on the momentum of the Reds and play to the styles of Cooper/Genia. Also because the Wallabies have not been successful playing the way they have over the last few years, I'm sure they'll be looking for a little change. Unfortunately, the balance of the side (mainly the backs) just isn't the same as the Reds and is terrible in general.

Take the Reds backs for example. The Reds barely use their centres in attack, they are strong tacklers and take hit ups. The Wallabies have Giteau/O'Conner/Ashley-Cooper - none of which match this. It's a shocking centre combination we have, one that has been a big weakness for ages.

Also for the Reds, every time the other team gets the ball, Cooper drops back, and the Reds fullback moves to the front line (Lucas and Lance - good defenders not so good attackers) , allowing Cooper to attack from fullback. This won't work for the Wallabies, Beale is also a good attacker (though not as good IMO), and he won't defend in the front line.

That means that Cooper and Giteau/O'Conner and Ashley-Cooper will be defending next to each other - not good. Also Cooper will not be able to play to his strengths, which is broken field running. I'm not saying O'Conner isn't a good player, he just doesn't fit into this team at all, especially at centre in my opinion. I'd put him on the wing. Faingaa needs to be considered in the centres - if not just for his defensive abilities/organisation.

Any other ideas?
 
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