2018 NSWRL Senior Comps - ISP, Flegg, RMC, Shield

[Tigers1986]

So Auburn have withdrawn by the looks of it. Interesting with what's happening there.

I get that the comp doesn't start until April, but a draw around February wouldn't go astray, if even like gthe current ISP one to confirm the teams and rounds.

I thought Shield was done so it staying this season is a surprise. Maybe they found a reason to keep it?

 

[Timmah]

My understanding was this was always to be the final season of Shield, not sure though.

Draws for Ball/Matts/Gale should all be out in the next few days, RMC and Shield likely too plus the updated ISP one with dates and venues.

Fingers crossed!

 

[rightleftin]

for the past few years Mehajer Bros was one of the major sponsors of Auburn. Clearly no more funds coming from that source and maybe they could not find a replacement.

 

[kbw]

My understanding was this was always to be the final season of Shield, not sure though.

there were rumours around that SS would not be run this year, but those were obviously wrong.
It would be nice to hear something official. Everytime I asked anyone at NSWRL its always a no regarding not running SS.

I do think it would be a big mistake for there to be no SS. It would leave a huge gap.

 

[Timmah]

I tend to disagree. Between RMC and SS it's been hard to maintain two comps the last few years, especially with some clubs starting to prioritise their own graded sides ahead of their RMC or SS outfit. Consolidating them into one comp makes some sense and hopefully takes two relatively mediocre competitions (and I mean that sincerely, not to deride either - both are a shadow of their former selves at the moment) and make one strong one.

 

[rightleftin]

Removing SS cannot improve RMC. With a few exceptions the SS teams are the reggies for the RMC teams

I tend to disagree. Between RMC and SS it's been hard to maintain two comps the last few years, especially with some clubs starting to prioritise their own graded sides ahead of their RMC or SS outfit. Consolidating them into one comp makes some sense and hopefully takes two relatively mediocre competitions (and I mean that sincerely, not to deride either - both are a shadow of their former selves at the moment) and make one strong one.

How can removing SS improve RMC, when with a few exceptions, the SS teams are the reggies for the RMC teams. I would be interested in when you think the peak year for SS was since it is now a shadow of itself, given that it only started in 2012

 

[kbw]

I think there needs to be some focus put on these comps. There are enough players around to make these decent competitions. The gap between SS and RMC is significant but there is a place for both.

Especially with the A grades across the place deteriorating, there needs to be some decent non fully profession RL competitions

 

[Timmah]

Removing SS cannot improve RMC. With a few exceptions the SS teams are the reggies for the RMC teams


How can removing SS improve RMC, when with a few exceptions, the SS teams are the reggies for the RMC teams. I would be interested in when you think the peak year for SS was since it is now a shadow of itself, given that it only started in 2012

Can we have this discussion without you viewing what I'm saying as an attack? Because that's how it's coming across.

My comments are on the general health of the two competitions - reduced team numbers, the composition of clubs in the competitions changing without fail year-on-year.

My belief is that one strong competition would be better than two weaker ones, which is currently the case.

 

[rightleftin]

Can we have this discussion without you viewing what I'm saying as an attack? Because that's how it's coming across.

My comments are on the general health of the two competitions - reduced team numbers, the composition of clubs in the competitions changing without fail year-on-year.

My belief is that one strong competition would be better than two weaker ones, which is currently the case.

My apology for your offence but I am merely trying to follow a logical thought path. You want to have 1 comp instead of 2 - Ok there are 2 possible views on that but these 2 comps are not competitors, they are higher and lower grades. If the lower grade is removed most of the players will not get a spot in RMC (see KBW's view in the gap in standard) so if it is your view that RMC is weak, removal of SS will still mean it stays weak.

Some thoughts on standards
- if RMC and SS are weak then ISP is also weak as something 100 players that appeared in RMC in 2017 also played in ISP.
- Several players that regularly played RMC gave a good account of themselves in the World Cup.
- Several players that played in the Penrith ISP team that won the GF and the national cup also in appeared in SS for St Marys and played most of the season in RMC.
- In 2015 and 2016 there were less 30 players that appeared in both ISP and SS but that number was significantly higher in 2017.
- 8 players with NRL experience played SS in 2017. This would be the highest number since 1998-2001 when Wenty and Ryde Eastwood each had 14 players with 1st grade experience and 4 in each club would have to played in the reserve grade of the Metro Cup.

The SS started as a 4 team comp in May 2010 when the reggies of Cabra, Mounties and Wenty were excluded from the Parramatta junior league as paid players were banned. Sydney Bulls put in the Bulldogs backup NYC players to make a 4 team comp. Parramatta relented in 2011 but then invented a points system to stop the players so SS was back in 2012.

Every year there are weak teams and strong teams in each of these grades and teams come and go due to financial constraints. Whatever the standard of RMC is, there is no doubt that that generally the gap between the top and the bottom was smaller than for many years and this result in a side coming from 2nd last half way through the season to make the GF.

 

[Pantherman72]

The comps would be a lot stronger if each team was allowed to sign and nominate a marquee player that was exempt from the Points system. At the moment, any ex NRL player who retires or wants to go semi-pro and focus on work arent chased to sign for a Ron Massey team as they are worth 20 points. You get the odd club like Hills who do it with Feleti Mateo but it means the quality around him is not as high to fit under 100 points and their depth suffers.
You see these players having to go to the Newcastle or Wollongong comps or to the country or group 6 as they can't play in Sydney cause of this points system where they take up 20% of the Massey points and about 30% of the shield points if selected.
How good would it be to see each team noninate one marquee player exempt from the Points system and use these guys to promote the competition. A photo with all 12 players in their kits to promote the comp. People would take notice of the competition. As it is now, where does a Sydney based player leaving the NRL who wants to put something back into the game and play a decent level have to play? It should be the Ron Massey Cup. It isn't.

 

[rightleftin]

I guess that the career of Tere Glassie will be finished by Mounties decision to quit SS.

Tere played 1st grade for South Sydney in 1997 and when Ryde Eastwood had 14 players with 1st grade experience in 2001 he was one of the 4 that had to play reggies. He then played several seasons with Newtown in the ISP equivalent before to went to England and played for 4 clubs in the 2nd tier.

He returned to Oz aged 35 and signed with Mounties in 2010, became club captain and played 8 seasons of RMC and latterly SS.

On the other hand, at 29 Will Mataka may be able to gain another contract somewhere. He played in the ISP GF in 2016 but started 2017 in SS, worked his way back up to ISP before being relegated to RMC in the 2nd half and then back to SS for the finals.

 

[rightleftin]

The comps would be a lot stronger if each team was allowed to sign and nominate a marquee player that was exempt from the Points system. At the moment, any ex NRL player who retires or wants to go semi-pro and focus on work arent chased to sign for a Ron Massey team as they are worth 20 points. You get the odd club like Hills who do it with Feleti Mateo but it means the quality around him is not as high to fit under 100 points and their depth suffers.
You see these players having to go to the Newcastle or Wollongong comps or to the country or group 6 as they can't play in Sydney cause of this points system where they take up 20% of the Massey points and about 30% of the shield points if selected.
How good would it be to see each team noninate one marquee player exempt from the Points system and use these guys to promote the competition. A photo with all 12 players in their kits to promote the comp. People would take notice of the competition. As it is now, where does a Sydney based player leaving the NRL who wants to put something back into the game and play a decent level have to play? It should be the Ron Massey Cup. It isn't.

How good was it when Quentin Pongia and James Pickering were in the front row for Sydney Bulls? Pongia went from the Roosters to the Bulls to Wigan in consecutive seasons. Your idea is good start but I would abolish this points madness.

 

[Tigers1986]

The Shield has its merits as a pathway for those coming from Harold Matts through to first grade. It could theoretically give them larger exposure than a local A-grade comp too.

I'd propose establishing promotion/relegation between the 2 competitions and only being able to enter one competition. Your 'stronger' sides such as Wentworthville, St Marys, Wests & Mounties would be certainties for RMC, plus your fringeclubs that would be competitive. Fill the Shield with the A-grade champions of the Metropolitan plus invitational sides from those comps. Wooden spoon of RMC plays the Shield winners for an RMC spot the following year.

Matts > SG Ball > Flegg > Shield > RMC > ISP > NRL

Those who don't 'make grade' from the juniors would be delighted to see an avenue like this open to them. Sponsored by the NSWRL, it could be great.

 

[imgunawin72]

My understanding was this was always to be the final season of Shield, not sure though.

Draws for Ball/Matts/Gale should all be out in the next few days, RMC and Shield likely too plus the updated ISP one with dates and venues.

Fingers crossed!

I think there is too big a gap between the local a grade comps and RMC so SS needs to stay.
Also a lot of nrl clubs use a SS club to give their young blokes that aren’t playing 20’s a run. For example parra use guildford SS for this.

 

[imgunawin72]

The comps would be a lot stronger if each team was allowed to sign and nominate a marquee player that was exempt from the Points system. At the moment, any ex NRL player who retires or wants to go semi-pro and focus on work arent chased to sign for a Ron Massey team as they are worth 20 points. You get the odd club like Hills who do it with Feleti Mateo but it means the quality around him is not as high to fit under 100 points and their depth suffers.
You see these players having to go to the Newcastle or Wollongong comps or to the country or group 6 as they can't play in Sydney cause of this points system where they take up 20% of the Massey points and about 30% of the shield points if selected.
How good would it be to see each team noninate one marquee player exempt from the Points system and use these guys to promote the competition. A photo with all 12 players in their kits to promote the comp. People would take notice of the competition. As it is now, where does a Sydney based player leaving the NRL who wants to put something back into the game and play a decent level have to play? It should be the Ron Massey Cup. It isn't.

Is the points system available to view anywhere? Like perhaps the NSWRL website?

 

[kbw]

The problem with the relegation system is that there are clubs more than happy to run 2 sides and do so successfully. Not to mention it would just encourage players to keep switching clubs to stay in RMC.

I believe there is enough players to support around 16 teams in each comp, it just needs to be encouraged by the NSWRL. Unfortunately I do not know what needs to be done to do this

 

[siv]

I think there needs to be some focus put on these comps. There are enough players around to make these decent competitions. The gap between SS and RMC is significant but there is a place for both.

Especially with the A grades across the place deteriorating, there needs to be some decent non fully profession RL competitions

Merge RMC and NSW Cup make it state wide

 

[rightleftin]

Is the points system available to view anywhere? Like perhaps the NSWRL website?

The NSWRL published it on their website in 2003. It changed twice in the next few years but nothing has ever been published in 14 years.

 

[imgunawin72]

Ok i guess the managers from each club must have a list of points allocated to each player at their club.

 

[kbw]

Ok i guess the managers from each club must have a list of points allocated to each player at their club.

From my experience when a player joins a club, they advise what level they have played. Some levels are applied only in the last 3 (or is it 4) years. This then decides how many points that player is worth.