2019 coach

[umina panther]

Gould has made 100 correct calls and 5 or 6 bad ones (granted Hook is a real bad one).

People like to focus only on the negative.

Our club (for the most part) is the envy of the NRL.

Financially stable, envious training facilities, improved fan base, higher profile, and a steady stream of talent coming through from the ground up.

Even Wayne Bennet was quoted as saying we had the most talented roster in the NRL.

Shows how bad Hook and the decision to sign Hook was.....anyways time to move on

 

[betcats]

Who brought Griffin here. Who re-signed Griffin? Everything Griffin did is on Gus. Seems like we are repeating the same mistakes

For the 50th time ive acknowledged he made mistakes. I called hiring Griffin and extending Griffin a mistake before all of you did. IMO the good he has done far outweighs his mistakes. I was so pissed off about his mistakes a couple of times even I called for his head, but that was just reacting to what I thought was bad news. I honestly think we'd be crazy to fire gould right now.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I don't know what you mean anymore, ive been very clear on my stance here.

Griffin literally had talented people walking out of the club. Gould has and still is bringing talented people into the club. Yes he got it wrong a couple of times but IMO that doesn't mean he should go or is doing a bad job. I think we are much stronger with Gould at the club and much stronger with Griffin not at the club. The two are not the same.

You were making the argument that on field performances negate the stuff ups, other people were making the same argument for Griffin. That’s my point.

And he’s been wrong much more than a couple of times. I listed 5/6 major ones.




Simple question, would you say Gus has made more stuff ups in the second half of his tenure than the first?

 

[OldPanther]

It was one name thrown up quickly, I mentioned 2 other people too.

The point is the idea, which you said you liked btw.

I don't know what you mean anymore, ive been very clear on my stance here.

Griffin literally had talented people walking out of the club. Gould has and still is bringing talented people into the club. Yes he got it wrong a couple of times but IMO that doesn't mean he should go or is doing a bad job. I think we are much stronger with Gould at the club and much stronger with Griffin not at the club. The two are not the same.

Not responding to the comment just the people.

It seems like it's really a matter of whether people think the good outweigh the bad. With Gus I personally think it does with Griffin I don't. Some won't agree and I respect that.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Gould has made 100 correct calls and 5 or 6 bad ones (granted Hook is a real bad one).

People like to focus only on the negative.

Our club (for the most part) is the envy of the NRL.

Financially stable, envious training facilities, improved fan base, higher profile, and a steady stream of talent coming through from the ground up.

Even Wayne Bennet was quoted as saying we had the most talented roster in the NRL.

The bad decisions have been big ones.

That’s why the club needs a different perspective for things like a coaching appointment.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Not responding to the comment just the people.

It seems like it's really a matter of whether people think the good outweigh the bad. With Gus I personally think it does with Griffin I don't. Some won't agree and I respect that.

If you look at his total tenure the good outweighs the bad.

If you look at the last 3/4 years I’d say the opposite.

Hence why I believe the recent decision making is indicative of the fact he’s been here too long. He’s become sloppy at best, arrogant at worst.

 

[betcats]

You were making the argument that on field performances negate the stuff ups, other people were making the same argument for Griffin. That’s my point.

And he’s been wrong much more than a couple of times. I listed 5/6 major ones.




Simple question, would you say Gus has made more stuff ups in the second half of his tenure than the first?

I never made that argument. You said we have been poorly run four years and Gus is loving off his first year here and pointed out all the good things going on. Never once did I try and excuse or overlook Goulds mistakes, I acknowledged them from the get go.

 

[forby]

We would be up s..t creek without him. Succession planning only works if there is a successor. Do you have anybody in mind that could do as good or better job?

 

[herbert henry1908]

I never made that argument.

Yes you did

 

[herbert henry1908]

We would be up s..t creek without him. Succession planning only works if there is a successor. Do you have anybody in mind that could do as good or better job?

That’s Gould’s & the boards job to bring in someone else so there can be a smooth transition.

Instead they brought in a 29 year old with no sports admin experience.

 

[herbert henry1908]

You said we have been poorly run four years

Never said that.

(I said Gould has been making bad decisions in the last 3/4 years)

and Gus is loving off his first year here and pointed out all the good things going on.

Never said a single year

Never once did I try and excuse or overlook Goulds mistakes, I acknowledged them from the get go.

I wasn’t saying you were overlooking his mistakes, I was saying you were making a similar argument to the people who were defending Griffin.

 

[mxlegend99]

Gus started out great upon arrival, even things people were likely not happy with were obviously with a purpose which we could see (ie. signing duds from Knights and throwing them to the wolves instead of our juniors). Our NRL recruitment back then was so f**king good though.

Getting guys who were clearly on the verge of breaking out before they did, and a couple of unwanted old heads. James Segeyaro. Dean Whare. Jamie Soward. Peter Wallace. Jamal Idris. He was nailing it with just about every signing.

But after sacking Ivan the decisions were nowhere near as good as earlier on. Not to see there weren't some great decisions made in there. Signings like Kikau and TMM were reminiscent of the earlier signings he used to make. So much better then throwing overs at guys like Hiku, Merrin and Tamou. Granted Mez had a terrific season in 2016, but getting in bidding wars to land players who are overrated was typical of how every team tries to fix a problem.

Most decisions related to Hook were a mistake. Starting with hiring a coach without so much as an interview. Fair enough having his back in 2016 when Hook was willing to play ball and work with Gus and the staff at the club. But after the start to 2017, Hook should have been either sacked on the spot or at the end of the season. We should have had the players backs over him and avoided a huge mess. Instead Gus backs Hook, extends him and then resents him. He refused to admit his mistake before it got out of hand, doubled down on it and made it a million times worse. If he was sacked after the horror start to last season it would not have blown up in his face like this.

That said he nailed the decision this time and this could be a turning point to where it's more hit then miss. Most of the misses were Hook related.

 

[herbert henry1908]

You actually made the argument about things going well on the foot field more than once @betcats

And my point was this is the same argument many Griffin defenders made.

 

[betcats]

You actually made the argument about things going well on the foot field more than once @betcats

And my point was this is the same argument many Griffin defenders made.

View attachment 22444

Because you are saying he has done everything wrong for four years and is living on his first year alone. I’m proving that wrong, not excusing his mistakes at all. I also used a lot more than just our field percormances to show the good he has done but you keep ignoring that.

Griffins supporters only had our position on the ladder and his percentage, nothing else. They would provide no context, they would completely ignore or refuse to believe anything negative reported about hook and label anyone who had a negative opinion as bitter or as part of a conspiracy. They couldn’t even use our on field performances because we were winning while playing shit. It was literally “Griffins winning percentage is higher than coach x therefore he is better”

 

[herbert henry1908]

Gus started out great upon arrival, even things people were likely not happy with were obviously with a purpose which we could see (ie. signing duds from Knights and throwing them to the wolves instead of our juniors). Our NRL recruitment back then was so f**king good though.

Getting guys who were clearly on the verge of breaking out before they did, and a couple of unwanted old heads. James Segeyaro. Dean Whare. Jamie Soward. Peter Wallace. Jamal Idris. He was nailing it with just about every signing.

But after sacking Ivan the decisions were nowhere near as good as earlier on. Not to see there weren't some great decisions made in there. Signings like Kikau and TMM were reminiscent of the earlier signings he used to make. So much better then throwing overs at guys like Hiku, Merrin and Tamou. Granted Mez had a terrific season in 2016, but getting in bidding wars to land players who are overrated was typical of how every team tries to fix a problem.

Most decisions related to Hook were a mistake. Starting with hiring a coach without so much as an interview. Fair enough having his back in 2016 when Hook was willing to play ball and work with Gus and the staff at the club. But after the start to 2017, Hook should have been either sacked on the spot or at the end of the season. We should have had the players backs over him and avoided a huge mess. Instead Gus backs Hook, extends him and then resents him. He refused to admit his mistake before it got out of hand, doubled down on it and made it a million times worse. If he was sacked after the horror start to last season it would not have blown up in his face like this.

That said he nailed the decision this time and this could be a turning point to where it's more hit then miss. Most of the misses were Hook related.

Agree with a lot of what you’ve said here, but I don’t have any confidence that the firing of Griffin will be some type of turning point in his decision making. Dare say the board may see it like that too, hence they’re pushing for Cleary.

Also think there were plenty of non Hook related bad decisions. Corey Payne being the big one, sacking Cleary on a whim without a proper review, signing Tamou to a large long deal. The questionable land deal which seemingly benefited his friend a lot.

 

[maple_69]

I think the only serious mistake Gus has made was to extend Griffin instead of sack him. I believe Griffin was a fine appointment in retrospect. He brought our kids through very well. Ivan wasn’t. Of course you could argue other coaches could both do that and coach an attack. Fact is we weren’t going to be in a position to win it until last year when we had a half decent spine and a pack that Sauce didn’t have to carry.

Merrin was a pricey but impactful signing. You don’t build a top class pack on bargain buys and kids. Tamou has never been less than average and is a leader. Not great but hardly awful. Hiku was a dud I admit but he moved him on before it became an issue. Everyone else we’ve signed, re-signed and released have been good calls really.

 

[Pomoz]

It’s not a few mate, it’s stuff up after stuff up in recent times.

His time is done, he can’t live off his first few years forever.

The bad decisions will catch up with the club, I guarantee it. Gould has built it so he’s indispensable, but when Gus goes it’ll go to absolute shit. No succession planning has been done, it’s a house of cards.

How would you know that (genuinely asking, not rhetorical). What information do you have about the systems and processes in place that will be there when Gus leaves? Is salary cap management or, junior development carried around in Gus's head? The same Gus who is preaching 'collaboration'?

Having held a few senior positions over the years, I know how hard it is to get recruitment right. If you hire people, some times you will get duds. Even if other people are involved. I have done it myself, and seen it done by others. It is so difficult to judge people in an interview selection process no matter how rigorous you are.

In any case, Hook is 3 for 3, he isn't a dud. He achieved plenty in his stint, he just wasn't going to get us to the next level. I concede that Payne, was a dud. I will also say it was easy to spot he wouldn't be any good. He barely had enough experience to be a supervisor, let alone a CEO. Gus looked foolish with how he did that and showed his inexperience at hiring senior people. The board also should have known better.

I disagree with everybody on this forum that extending Hook was wrong. The board did it because not to do so would be a vote of no confidence. Look at the talk about Bennett, a super coach not a nobody like Hook, now he has one year left. Hook's goose would have been cooked before he stared. Now, as it turns out, the media jumped on the whispering campaign and undermined him anyway. He also couldn't change to be more collaborative which is what was required. But we only know that with the benefit of hindsight. The board tried to support Hook and give him the best chance they could. Considering he was 2 for 2 at the time, it was a reasonable decision.

Gus has made mistakes, but the club is in a good position now. If you sack people every time a mistake is made, there would be no senior leaders left. You have to look at the overall picture and it doesn't look to bad from where I'm stood.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Because you are saying he has done everything wrong for four years and is living on his first year alone. I’m proving that wrong, not excusing his mistakes at all. I also used a lot more than just our field percormances to show the good he has done but you keep ignoring that.

Griffins supporters only had our position on the ladder and his percentage, nothing else. They would provide no context, they would completely ignore or refuse to believe anything negative reported about hook and label anyone who had a negative opinion as bitter or as part of a conspiracy.

Dude I’m not saying he’s done everything wrong in recent. I’m saying there’s been more bad decisions of recent than good ones, the trajectory of his decision making is getting worse. Particularly the off field decision making.

And again I never said he’s living off his *first year alone*. I said he’s living off his early years, plural.

 

[betcats]

Dude I’m not saying he’s done everything wrong in recent. I’m saying there’s been more bad decisions of recent than good ones, the trajectory of his decision making is getting worse. Particularly the off field decision making.

And again I never said he’s living off his *first year alone*. I said he’s living off his early years, plural.

Well maybe I misunderstood, you seemed to be saying he hasn’t done anything good for years to me.

My whole point was we are changed club under Gould, on and off the field. We are connecting with the local fans as well the country. Our scouting and recruitment of juniors has improved a lot by any measurement, facilities are state of the art, sponsorship has improved and we went from no TPAs to having the most. There is so much more good work being done than just the squad.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

We would be up s..t creek without him. Succession planning only works if there is a successor. Do you have anybody in mind that could do as good or better job?

Well said.