2019 coach

[herbert henry1908]

How would you know that (genuinely asking, not rhetorical). What information do you have about the systems and processes in place that will be there when Gus leaves? Is salary cap management or, junior development carried around in Gus's head? The same Gus who is preaching 'collaboration'?

Few things.

The major appointments he’s overseen have been poor.

Corey Payne the most obvious, but there’s others.

He was involved in making Matt Moylan captain, this was a terrible decision. He was clearly out of his depth maturity wise.

His appointment of Hook without doing a proper search for a coach. This is a repeat of what he did for Cleary too. Tells me he isn’t effective in evaluating the landscape. He has tunnel vision. This isn’t a good attribute of someone in management.

Brian Fletcher to replace Corey Payne was another poor move. Fletcher is old, we should’ve been looking at someone who could take over from Gus.


When I said there’s not a proper process in place for when Gus leaves, which could be at any moment as he’s actually not in the best health, what I meant was personnel wise. I actually think he’s done a good job with the juniors, and I’d say that’ll remain in place when he leaves.

I couldn’t speak to salary cap management though.

In any case, Hook is 3 for 3, he isn't a dud. He achieved plenty in his stint, he just wasn't going to get us to the next level. I concede that Payne, was a dud. I will also say it was easy to spot he wouldn't be any good. He barely had enough experience to be a supervisor, let alone a CEO. Gus looked foolish with how he did that and showed his inexperience at hiring senior people. The board also should have known better.

I’ve said exactly the same about Hook.

He was a dud appointment for us, that doesn’t make the man a dud.

Gus has made mistakes, but the club is in a good position now. If you sack people every time a mistake is made, there would be no senior leaders left. You have to look at the overall picture and it doesn't look to bad from where I'm stood.

I’m not suggesting firing him off the back of a single mistake, I’m suggesting he moves aside off the back of several mistakes. The trajectory of his decision making is getting worse, to me that’s an indicator it’s time to move on.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Well maybe I misunderstood, you seemed to be saying he hasn’t done anything good for years to me.

My whole point was we are changed club under Gould, on and off the field. We are connecting with the local fans as well the country. Our scouting and recruitment of juniors has improved a lot by any measurement, facilities are state of the art, sponsorship has improved and we went from no TPAs to having the most. There is so much more good work being done than just the squad.

Most of the good decisions in recent times I can point towards are on field recruitment wise.

That’s entirely in line with what I’ve said about him being good at building a roster. Although I do think there’s been dud decisions there too. But Kikau was a great recruitment, re-signing Mansour too.

I agree with your second paragraph, I’ve said this several times. We’re a better club for having had Gus than not. But that doesn’t mean the man should say forever. Gus looks tired and I think the recent decision making indicates that.

 

[franklin2323]

For the 50th time ive acknowledged he made mistakes. I called hiring Griffin and extending Griffin a mistake before all of you did. IMO the good he has done far outweighs his mistakes. I was so pissed off about his mistakes a couple of times even I called for his head, but that was just reacting to what I thought was bad news. I honestly think we'd be crazy to fire gould right now.

That isn't the only mistake though.

Moylan, all those staff flow on from it. If the common link was Griffin then get rid of the source of the issues

Even the circus surrounding the sacking has all been poorly handled

 

[franklin2323]

I think the only serious mistake Gus has made was to extend Griffin instead of sack him. I believe Griffin was a fine appointment in retrospect. He brought our kids through very well. Ivan wasn’t. Of course you could argue other coaches could both do that and coach an attack. Fact is we weren’t going to be in a position to win it until last year when we had a half decent spine and a pack that Sauce didn’t have to carry.

Merrin was a pricey but impactful signing. You don’t build a top class pack on bargain buys and kids. Tamou has never been less than average and is a leader. Not great but hardly awful. Hiku was a dud I admit but he moved him on before it became an issue. Everyone else we’ve signed, re-signed and released have been good calls really.

Results were there which is a shock given the shit storm going on in the background

 

[umina panther]

Ivan brang in plenty of young players

 

[OldPanther]

Ivan brang in plenty of young players

The biggest Myth among Panthers fans is Ivan not debuting players.

 

[umina panther]

That young Yeo fella that NO ONE rated comes to mind

 

[OldPanther]

That young Yeo fella that NO ONE rated comes to mind

That counts for 10 at least.

 

[betcats]

Mx named a full side that debuted under Ivan.

 

[OldPanther]

Mx named a full side that debuted under Ivan.

Yeah I have no idea why people think it. Half our current team debuted under Ivan(slight exaggeration)

 

[franklin2323]

The issue was it took injuries for Ivan to debut young guys. I can't remember any picked due to form

 

[maple_69]

Absolutely. It is not a myth. He was much more cautious bringing kids in. A lot of the debuts came with our horrific injury toll.

More to the point a lot of the guys that came through under Ivan did not meet their potential. Under Griffin they almost all have. Cartwright is one train wreck exception. Many factors, including a strategy of the club shielding kids from coming into a shambles, but results are results.

 

[betcats]

Absolutely. It is not a myth. He was much more cautious bringing kids in. A lot of the debuts came with our horrific injury toll.

More to the point a lot of the guys that came through under Ivan did not meet their potential. Under Griffin they almost all have. Cartwright is one train wreck exception. Many factors, including a strategy of the club shielding kids from coming into a shambles, but results are results.

Isaah Yeo debuted at 18 in round 1 2014, in the centres. There were more experienced options available. It’s a myth.

 

[mxlegend99]

Absolutely. It is not a myth. He was much more cautious bringing kids in. A lot of the debuts came with our horrific injury toll.

More to the point a lot of the guys that came through under Ivan did not meet their potential. Under Griffin they almost all have. Cartwright is one train wreck exception. Many factors, including a strategy of the club shielding kids from coming into a shambles, but results are results.

Outside of Blake, who didnt play just aswell under Ivan? Everyone under Ivan had good development. Including Blake. Players consistently improved under him.

Moylan 2014 was as good as ever
DWZ 2014 was a beast
Carty 2014 looked insane
Mansour was better under Ivan before doing an ACL
RCG had a terrific debut season

Outside of those guys Ivan got the last good footy we saw from Jamie Soward, Jsmes Segeyaro, Jamal Idris etc. Dean Whare was the best centre in the game under Ivan.

It's a myth that Ivan never gave players a chance. It's bullshit that the players werent for the most part good when he did.

Gus brought in journeymen to cut down on unnecessary debuts while the club was being rebuilt to assist in our younger players development and not have guys trying to develop in a losing NRL side like Knights have done. Those guys were top 25 players and our team had to be selected with that and the second tier salary cap in mind.

 

[betcats]

Ivan had to wait on the kids, he debuted as many people as hook except when Ivan got here the juniors had not been managed well for years, when hook got here we had won two nyc premierships and a nsw cup premiership in the three years leading up to him arriving in 2016.

 

[TheEroticGamer]

Why would Ivan willingly dump in youngsters when our first grade team was in the top four?

 

[umina panther]

Why would Ivan willingly dump in youngsters when our first grade team was in the top four?

Because he hates kids

 

[mxlegend99]

Why would Ivan willingly dump in youngsters when our first grade team was in the top four?

He still did though. In 2014 we saw the debut of
DWZ, Cartwright, Yeo, Moseley and will Smith.

Aswell as club debuts for Soward, Taylor, kev Naiqama, BMM and Kite.

2015 through injury we saw the likes of Blake, Gennings, Rennings, Latu, Katoa and Chris Smith. As well as club debuts for Sopoaga and Korisau.

Of the 11 players to debut in those 2 years. 9 have played NRL this year and are mostly regulars.

 

[Fangs]

You'd say Hook took more risks on younger players. Ivan himself said he wouldn't have picked Nathan Cleary in 2016.

But it's pretty clear that both coaches had different circumstances. We were a total mess when Ivan arrived and our success in 2014 was mainly off the back of imports.

If he stayed on for 2016 who knows what would have happened.

 

[Abacus]

The point being missed here is that the composition of your Top 25/30 plays the most significant part in who can debut. If the players were part of the Top squad, no restriction to debut them. Otherwise debuting a player had to be managed through 2nd tier cap and now requires NRL approval.

No doubt the Top squad now boasts more juniors that have come through the club's pathways so it is "easier" to debut a kid. Our Top squad was dominated by older, journeymen during Ivan's tenure.

It also provides some context as to why clubs wait for injuries before promoting a promising junior.

I don't see the club needing to debut many players over the next 2-3 years, so the incoming coach's ability in that area is a bit of a moot point. We're getting to a similar stage as 2012-2013 where we had, from memory, the lowest number of NRL debuts. Again, context was the club had brought through Sam Mc, Jenko, Coote, Graham, TG, Masada (maybe others too) in the period 2008-2010. Now its time to let the kids brought through to prove whether or not they are long term NRL players. Given what we've seen from them this year, we may only be able to offer NRL debuts where injuries occur.