2019 Discussion

[Fangs]

It is a boys club. Stuff is kept quiet so they can keep their roles easier

Absolutely it is.

I'm surprised it's not mentioned more in the media. No one is shifting anyone from the board.

 

[mxlegend99]

We had depth then. Don't now as injuries hit we will get weaker

Example lets look at the left centre options this week

Jed- 0 FG games. Being mostly backrow in NSW Cup.

Fuimaono- again mostly backrow borderline 1st grade

Yeo- been in middle or the right. Who plugs that hole if we move him. Ordinary centre too

Whare's injury looks like a 4 week one.

We play Souffs. Gagai- test and origin centre.

Canberra have that awesome right side or Rapana/Leilua

Tigers- should still have them covered

Then Warriors with their awesome backline

Maybe we get 2 of those. Still play Roosters twice. Canberra and Souffs again we prob jag a few 50/50 games too

There's no guarantee we can turn it around. Like you I see a busted roster with no depth.

But the past 2 weeks we've atleast shown an improvement in attack... and we have been in this position in 2 of the past 3 seasons. I thought we were a write off in 2017 and we turned it around.

Hopefully we avoid origin selection this year and have an advantage through that period. Can steal some wins. Find some confidence for when the season starts to get serious.

 

[age.s]

The fitness issue should be solvable too. As has been mentioned, it should naturally get better as the year progresses. You'd also hope Cleary and the conditioning team are seeing what we are and taking steps to remedy it.

 

[franklin2323]

As the year moves on you will get more and more guys playing injured. Things like corks and stuff will be a struggle at the backend of games. The 1st 10 weeks should be the best time to play.

It is why pretty much the top 8 after 10 rounds is the top 8 at the end of the year. You get a few cases but pretty much those in the 8 after 10 rounds stay there. Just positions change

 

[franklin2323]

Absolutely it is.

I'm surprised it's not mentioned more in the media. No one is shifting anyone from the board.

It is why we are so average. Better candiates are often overlooked for mates

 

[TheFrog]

It's player development, not cash, that keeps Roosters on top
Phil Gould April 20, 2019 — 4.22pm

The Good Friday clash between heavyweights the Sydney Roosters and Melbourne Storm was an outstanding game of rugby league.

The match was highlighted by so many great moments. There were 40 points scored in the first 52 minutes. There were no points scored in the final 28 minutes as these two masterfully coached teams schemed their way to try and break the 20-20 deadlock.

In the end, it took a towering golden point field goal from the Roosters' Latrell Mitchell to decide it.

A draw would’ve been a more fitting result. However, if no extra time period was played, we would’ve been denied that magical moment from Mitchell, a drop goal that will live long in our memories.

I suppose if any team can afford the loss it’s Melbourne. It’s also fair to say our game can always benefit from the wonderful theatre created by magical moments like these.

As I left the ground I listened to the friendly banter between rival fans. Nothing sinister; just friendly ribbing with plenty of mutual respect for each other’s team. They know they will meet again come September.

Among the exchanges, though, were the age-old accusations that the Roosters buy their premierships by poaching representative-class players from rival clubs. This is one of the great myths of our game and these comments always grate on the Roosters faithful.
What is rarely highlighted is that in the past 20 seasons the Roosters have become one the leading developers of young talent in the game.

Friday night's win, in particular, emphasised this. Before I explain, let’s have a history lesson.

Roosters' 2002 premiership

Of the 17 players in that premiership-winning team, nine (Shannon Hegarty, Anthony Minichiello, Simon Bonetti, Peter Cusack, Luke Ricketson, Bryan Fletcher, Andrew Lomu, Chris Flannery and Michael Crocker) made their NRL debuts with the Roosters.

Roosters' 2013 premiership

Of the 17 players in that premiership team, 10 (Anthony Minichiello, Daniel Tupou, Shaun Kenny-Dowall, Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Mitchell Pearce, Aidan Guerra, Boyd Cordner, Jake Friend, Frank-Paul Nuuausala and Mitchell Aubusson) made their NRL debuts with the Roosters, while Jared Waerea-Hargreaves played just 6 matches for Manly in 2009 before joining the Club.

Roosters' 2018 premiership

Of the 17 players in that premiership team, 10 (Tupou, Mitchell, Joseph Manu, Friend, Cordner, Aubusson, Victor Radley, Isaac Liu, Dylan Napa and Ryan Matterson) made their NRL debuts with the Roosters, while two others (Sio Siua Taukeiaho and Waerea-Hargreaves) played just seven NRL matches prior to joining.

The Roosters went into Friday night's clash with the Storm missing six internationals (Taukeiaho, Liu, Manu, Friend, Brett Morris and Ryan Hall) and then lost a seventh (Luke Keary) during the match. The premiers had just nine of their grand final team in action, while the Storm had 14. The Roosters bench contained four players aged 21 or younger, with a total of just 19 matches between them. Three players (Sitili Tupouniua, Sam Verrills and Josh Curran) had played a total of 14 minutes in the NRL prior to Friday night.

The Roosters have now used 24 players in the first six rounds and are yet to give a debut their big off-season signing, Hall, the 38-cap England winger.

Eleven of the Roosters team on Friday night made their NRL debuts with the tricolours.

Radley, Tupouniua, Nat Butcher, Poasa Faamausili (who has played four matches for the Roosters this season after making his debut last season) and the suspended Manu were all members of the Roosters' 2016 NYC premiership team. Two others (Paul Momirovski and Grant Garvey) made their NRL debuts at the Roosters from that premiership side.

Tupouniua, a junior Kiwi representative, who joined the Roosters for that 2016 NYC season, is destined to be a long-term NRL player and his superb tackle-busting run in golden point was crucial in giving the Roosters the required field position for Mitchell to kick that winning field goal.

Butcher joined the Roosters when he was 17. The former Australian Schoolboy broke a myriad of records during the 2016 NYC season and played a key role in James Tedesco's try on Friday night. He made his NRL debut for the Roosters in the final match of 2016 when just 19. A player with an ability to play long minutes, he's been a star in the lower grades at the Roosters for a number of years.

Verrills, last season's Arthur Beetson medallist at the Roosters for under-20s player of the year, is in his second season at the Roosters and is still eligible to play at that level. The wily young hooker put the pressure on Brodie Croft late in normal time on Friday that prevented Croft from getting the space he needed to kick the winning field goal in regulation time.

Curran was a schoolboys star at Patrician Brothers Blacktown. He played under-16s for NSW in 2015, under-18s in 2017, under-20s in 2018 and Australian Schoolboys in 2016. He is another that the Roosters identified at a very young age, joining the club at 17 and graduating to the senior squad this season, along with Verrills.

What sets apart players such as Tupouniua, Butcher, Verrills, Curran, Faaumasili and another Roosters 2019 debutant Lachlan Lam from so many other NRL youngsters is the football education they receive at the Roosters. Despite their young age, when they make their debut at the Roosters they are ready. They have been at the club since a young age and the development programs that they go through have them as prepared for the NRL as a youngster can possibly be.

Look through the team lists and you will find a myriad of players who were at the Roosters prior to making their NRL debut, but are now playing elsewhere. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the Roosters have had to let many of these players go, but the players will still speak highly of their early years with the Roosters. They are all in the senior squads at their current clubs: Kenny-Dowall, Guerra, Tautau Moga, Connor Watson, Pearce (Knights); Joseph Leilua, Jack Murchie, Iosia Soliola (Raiders); Ryley Jacks, Treymain Spry (Titans); Jahrome Hughes, Sandor Earl (Storm); Brad Takairangi, Kane Evans (Parramatta); Tuivasa-Sheck, Jackson Frei, Leivaha Pulu, Taane Milne, Blake Ayshford (Warriors); John Asiata, Javid Bowen, Nene Macdonald (Cowboys); Momirovski, Matterson, Esan Marsters, Luke Garner (Tigers); Rhyse Martin, Napa (Bulldogs); Sean O'Sullivan, Joe Ofahengaue (Broncos); James Tamou, Frank Winterstein (Panthers); Ethan Lowe (Souths); Brendan Elliot, Lloyd Perrett (Manly); Kurt Capewell, Braden Hamlin-Uele (Sharks).

That's 37 players, plus 19 of the 29-man Roosters squad, and it's possible I have missed a few. It's impressive, to say the least.

The Roosters have played in 11 preliminary finals in the past 21 seasons, in seven of the last 19 grand finals, won four of the past six minor premierships and won three of the past 17 titles. They do so, not by buying premierships, but by identifying and developing talent at a rate better than the rest.

They are able to buy players such as Tedesco, Cooper Cronk, Keary, Hall and Angus Crichton because so many of their other squad members have been developed in-house. They are worthy premiership favourites again in 2019 on the back of another squad dominated by products they have developed.

 

[TheFrog]

Interesting how Gould is able to tell us why the Roosters are going so well. It's because they are a development club. We are a development club too, and Phil Gould manages our recruitment and retention. Why can't we sign the likes of Tedesco, Cronk and Crichton? Can you write an article about that?

 

[Panfa]

If he likes them so much why doesn't he go back there seems like he knows more about them than he does about us.

 

[Panfa]

What id like to see run out against souths 1.zelezniak 2.mansour 3.fuimaono 4.blake 5.too 6.maloney 7.cleary 13.fisher harris 12.yeo 11
Kikau 10.tamou 9.egan 8.grant 14.sele 15.campbell gillard 16.leota 17.martin

 

[Kilkenny]

If he likes them so much why doesn't he go back there seems like he knows more about them than he does about us.

Gould Care’s passionately about our players and our junior development no one can deny that.

He invested a lot of faith and salary cap dollars in the likes of RCG, Cleary, Mansour and others and sadly his faith appears to have been misguided. Not all his fault, really serious injuries may have contributed to the demise of the likes of RCG and Josh Mansour but it is what it is and as it would appear this season is going to be a disappointing one.

 

[TheFrog]

Gould Care’s passionately about our plaeyers and our junior development no one can deny that

The difference between where the Roosters are sitting and where we are sitting is stark, not just on the table, but the quality of squad they are able to assemble. They were able to bring in Tedesco and Cronk and would have kept Pearce except he wanted out. We have shed 3 quality first graders this year without comparable replacements. Phil Gould manages this. It would not happen at the Roosters. It would be nice if he could at least admit that he has made a few mistakes.

Honestly, I don't know what the club is paying him, but his allegiance appears to be elsewhere. Maybe as a result of the coach debacle. Reading this article irks me. It is time to say goodbye.

 

[Kilkenny]

The difference between where the Roosters are sitting and where we are sitting is stark, not just on the table, but the quality of squad they are able to assemble. They were able to bring in Tedesco and Cronk and would have kept Pearce except he wanted out. We have shed 3 quality first graders this year without comparable replacements. Phil Gould manages this. It would not happen at the Roosters. It would be nice if he could at least admit that he has made a few mistakes.

Honestly, I don't know what the club is paying him, but his allegiance appears to be elsewhere. Maybe as a result of the coach debacle. Reading this article irks me. It is time to say goodbye.

Phil Gould polarises people not least among our own fans I get that.

Can I say though for the most part we are all keyboard warriors with no real insight into what goes on behind the scenes, why decisions are made about recruitment and development, salary cap management etc etc.

What I can say is Phil Gould regardless of what he does for Channel 9, SMH or whoever else is and has been a workaholic in his time at our club and the hard work and hours he put’s in is unbelievable. I have a little first hand knowledge of his work ethic.

Gould would be hurting at the moment big time. For the first time since return to our club he was undermined in the return to Ivan Cleary after enjoying almost total control over all things football.

Yourself and others continue to talk about the release of three quality players and Gould would have preferred to keep all three.

The fact of the matter is there were other players such as RCG, Kikau, Blake, Cleary whose contracts were up and commanded massive upgrades. We simply couldn’t keep them all and Gould made a decision or choice however painful it was.

18 months ago I made a number of posts that I was of the opinion Gould and the club were making a big mistake investing a lot of money and faith in resigning RCG to a long term big money deal. I had no supporters on here and my own family wife and children were equally as critical.

I think Gould for the most part in his time here has made 90% great decisions but sadly he is going to be remembered for signing Anthony Griffin which was a mistake regardless of his record of three semi final appearances and RCG who was never someone who you would build your forward pack around.

 

[TheFrog]

Signing Griffin wasn't as bad a mistake as sacking him.

 

[Panfa]

I appreciate the work gus has done and the help he did to get us out of trouble but what i dont understand about gus is this.He talks about how professional the Melbourne storm are with training and discipline yet we are a shamble.Then he talks about how exciting it is watching broncos and cowboys throw the ball around and play the game at such speed.Yet we are so slow out of dummy half and our halves are slow in running and getting the ball out to our backs.I think its time we practiced what we preach start traing harder be more disciplined and for f sake play the game at speed and attack stop being negative.

 

[Kilkenny]

Signing Griffin wasn't as bad a mistake as sacking him.

Did the board not undermine Gould by taking the decision out of his hands.

Be careful what you wish for if you want Gould gone because there aren’t that many great General Managers out there. He may not be perfect but he is far better than many before and after him.

 

[TheFrog]

Did the board not undermine Gould by taking the decision out of his hands.

They did indeed, and I'm surprised he is still at the club. Maybe he will see the season out. But honestly, I don't know what he's thinking writing that article. What did he expect Panthers fans to make of it?

 

[billypilgrimnz]

I appreciate the work gus has done and the help he did to get us out of trouble but what i dont understand about gus is this.He talks about how professional the Melbourne storm are with training and discipline yet we are a shamble.Then he talks about how exciting it is watching broncos and cowboys throw the ball around and play the game at such speed.Yet we are so slow out of dummy half and our halves are slow in running and getting the ball out to our backs.I think its time we practiced what we preach start traing harder be more disciplined and for f sake play the game at speed and attack stop being negative.

Like it or not, he is not the coach, so he (theoretically) has no control over any of that. He could probably stop hiring dour, boring coaches if he wants us to play effective attacking football though.

I think Gould is well within his rights to say whatever he wants about the Roosters, having worked there as well. We are not the draw of the Roosters for players, so it is (a) harder for us to attract top-quality players in their prime looking to win a competition or two and (b) more likely that we will panic and pay overs to any gun junior who has the potential to possibly be very good but who also may actually just turn out to be a bog-standard first grader or worse, leaving less money to attract those top-quality players anyway. Combine that with a lack of quality coaching and we have what we have.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

What did he expect Panthers fans to make of it?

Not care? Media is part of his job as well. That includes talking about other clubs.

 

[Kilkenny]

They did indeed, and I'm surprised he is still at the club. Maybe he will see the season out. But honestly, I don't know what he's thinking writing that article. What did he expect Panthers fans to make of it?

I assume from your tone you think there are many potential General Mangers out there who could do a better job than Phil Gould? Is that your position?

 

[franklin2323]

Interesting how Gould is able to tell us why the Roosters are going so well. It's because they are a development club. We are a development club too, and Phil Gould manages our recruitment and retention. Why can't we sign the likes of Tedesco, Cronk and Crichton? Can you write an article about that?

They don't pay overs on fringe players for starters