2019 team line up

[watatank]

I had a quick flick over the time period you gave, and it’s fair to say the vast majority of premiership winning teams didn’t have a brace of wingers on alleged “big money”.

Remember, no one on this forum is privy to just how much money particular players receive from their employer.

That said, there are three teams which I believe stuck out like dogs’ balls:

1. Dragons 2010: Morris and Nightingale (SOO and international level).

2. Manly 2011: Hopoate and Williams (same criteria as above).

3. Chooks (surprise, surprise!) 2013: RTS and Tupou (again, played at the highest level).


The other thing I noticed that in just about each year since 2010, each victorious side had a ‘gun’ flanker.

Meanwhile, Saints will enter the 2019 season with wingers on rookie stipends (or you would think so).

I think the point was that the wing just seems to be a spot where you can (and do) find value, more than any other position.

We managed to keep Morris and Nightingale for a long time as local juniors but they were young when we won the premiership, we probably weren't spending big on them at the time. Also note that we eventually lost Morris for salary cap reasons.

Hopoate was young and Williams also unknown at the time but arguably overpaid after their contract extensions kicked in.

RTS was young, moved to fullback the next year and left for a better offer a year or two later. Tupou was unknown young player signed from Parra lower grades. Considering how contract extensions have been done with minimal fuss and all the other players the Roosters have released over the years for salary cap reasons there's a decent chance he's accepting unders to stay at a strong club.

That all said we should be doing better than hoping that Pearson and Ravalawa develops. Chances are that Pereira and Lomax will be asked to play wing for long periods and we hope that Pearson can find his way into the team and that's not ideal at all.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

I think the point was that the wing just seems to be a spot where you can (and do) find value, more than any other position.

We managed to keep Morris and Nightingale for a long time as local juniors but they were young when we won the premiership, we probably weren't spending big on them at the time. Also note that we eventually lost Morris for salary cap reasons.

Hopoate was young and Williams also unknown at the time but arguably overpaid after their contract extensions kicked in.

RTS was young, moved to fullback the next year and left for a better offer a year or two later. Tupou was unknown young player signed from Parra lower grades. Considering how contract extensions have been done with minimal fuss and all the other players the Roosters have released over the years for salary cap reasons there's a decent chance he's accepting unders to stay at a strong club.

That all said we should be doing better than hoping that Pearson and Ravalawa develops. Chances are that Pereira and Lomax will be asked to play wing for long periods and we hope that Pearson can find his way into the team and that's not ideal at all.

You’ve made a number of good points,but that said, there are some items I disagree with. They are:

1. both Morris and Nightingale weren’t as “young” as you’ve implied...both mid 20s and besides having played rep footy, they were experienced first graders by 2010. Remember, too, Morris chose to leave...he wasn’t forced out due to salary cap restraints. There have been suggestions Morris left because of Doust reneging on a promised upgraded contract after a period of accepting “unders” to remain loyal. Whatever the case, his primary reason in departing WASN’T because of Canterbury offering the fullback position and it DEFINITELY wasn’t due to his brother either.

2. Hopoate was a faux pas on my part (for some inexplicable reason I had thought of his father, John). He did play SOO a year later though. Williams had debuted in 2009, so he wasn’t “unknown” either, He had also played SOO by 2011? too,

3. RTS played Test footy in ‘13, so his value was already on the rise. Fair point re: Tupou whose status didn’t climb until later,

4. I feel McGregor will do something out of the box regarding round one and this includes selecting Aitken on the wing.

 

[watatank]

You’ve made a number of good points,but that said, there are some items I disagree with. They are:

1. both Morris and Nightingale weren’t as “young” as you’ve implied...both mid 20s and besides having played rep footy, they were experienced first graders by 2010. Remember, too, Morris chose to leave...he wasn’t forced out due to salary cap restraints. There have been suggestions Morris left because of Doust reneging on a promised upgraded contract after a period of accepting “unders” to remain loyal. Whatever the case, his primary reason in departing WASN’T because of Canterbury offering the fullback position and it DEFINITELY wasn’t due to his brother either.

2. Hopoate was a faux pas on my part (for some inexplicable reason I had thought of his father, John). He did play SOO a year later though. Williams had debuted in 2009, so he wasn’t “unknown” either, He had also played SOO by 2011? too,

3. RTS played Test footy in ‘13, so his value was already on the rise. Fair point re: Tupou whose status didn’t climb until later,

4. I feel McGregor will do something out of the box regarding round one and this includes selecting Aitken on the wing.

It's not really about who has or hasn't played rep football but how highly sought after players are after hitting the open market. What seems to be happening is that teams are able to convince wingers to stay for less more often than players who play other positions. Best examples recently are Josh Mansour, Josh Addo-Carr and Corey Oates (if only temporarily).

The point about Morris and Nightingale being 'young' in the 2010 team was not about experience but seniority. As for Morris leaving, don't know what happened behind the scenes but it appears that Morris left and then got more money that we probably didn't want to match. That's what I mean by 'salary cap reasons'

As for Williams, was thinking of 2008 which was his debut year and Manly also won. He missed the 2011 grand final through injury (wingers that year was Michael Robertson and William Hopoate). As for the Origin thing, well I suppose it depends on how highly sought after you think he was when he signed. A lot of average players played Origin in the past decade, especially NSW wingers. Probably not getting top dollar.

RTS was still young but playing on a level that probably didn't reflect what would have been relatively low pay as a young player. The Roosters were probably hoping to try and sign him long term to a similar contract but the Warriors trumped that one.

I kinda agree with what you are saying re: Aitken but it will look a little different. I think that McGregor likes Aitken as centre and will stay that way. He will still want Lomax to play so I think they will do something like this...I think that Lomax and Aitken will be the right edge combination and they will swap between centre and wing during games. They did a similar thing with Dugan/Aitken in first couple of rounds in 2016

 

[Frank Facer]

Oh Jebus mate, I can’t recall what happened five years ago let alone a nine-year period.

How long have I got to respond?

You have got as long as you like.

 

[Frank Facer]

I had a quick flick over the time period you gave, and it’s fair to say the vast majority of premiership winning teams didn’t have a brace of wingers on alleged “big money”.

Remember, no one on this forum is privy to just how much money particular players receive from their employer.

That said, there are three teams which I believe stuck out like dogs’ balls:

1. Dragons 2010: Morris and Nightingale (SOO and international level).

2. Manly 2011: Hopoate and Williams (same criteria as above).

3. Chooks (surprise, surprise!) 2013: RTS and Tupou (again, played at the highest level).


The other thing I noticed that in just about each year since 2010, each victorious side had a ‘gun’ flanker.

Meanwhile, Saints will enter the 2019 season with wingers on rookie stipends (or you would think so).

I agree with you about the wingers you mentioned, but all of those wingers would have been on very little money at the time. Hopoate was a rookie who had not played a first grade game before the 2011 season started. If my memory serves me correctly, Tupou hadn't started a first grade game before the 2013 season started. RTS had played some games on the wing before 2013, but would have been on a low salary at the time. I am pretty Morris and Nightingale would have both been on low salary's in 2010 too. The other best example was Melbourne winning with Addo Carr and Vunivulu. Vunivulu was unseen before the 2017 season kicked off and Carr had only played several games for Wests. He would have been on a low salary too. So the key is hopefully unearthing a really good winger or 2 who will still be on a low salary. I am hoping that maybe Ravalawa could fit the bill and to a lesser extent Pearson. Some have been talking about a youngster named Silverman, who has some pretty big wraps on him. Maybe he could do a Hopoate and take a wing spot and perform?

 

[Drag Queen]

A few FG games...standards are too low for mine.

I’d have Brett Morris back even if he had a leg missing.

Pulling at my heartstrings Jimmy. Roosters on their game again. I would kill to have Bmoz back in the team again. Yes.. he is that good. Our loss.

 

[Drag Queen]

Still two good wingers on big money.

Too pissed to comment but Ferguson was brilliant last season. Would I pay overs for a great winger? Hell yeah I would.

 

[SBD82]

Still two good wingers on big money.

According to media and rumour, Ferguson and Tupou were on small contracts last year. So they fit FF's idea about getting good value from your wingers.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

According to media and rumour, Ferguson and Tupou were on small contracts last year. So they fit FF's idea about getting good value from your wingers.

As two SOO standard players, I doubt either would be on “small contacts”.

Remember, this is the Chooks we’re talking about.

Scuttlrbutt never fails to make me smile.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Too pissed to comment but Ferguson was brilliant last season. Would I pay overs for a great winger? Hell yeah I would.

Saints don’t have a choice not to (pay overs), I’m fact, it’s irresponsible not to consider it.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Pulling at my heartstrings Jimmy. Roosters on their game again. I would kill to have Bmoz back in the team again. Yes.. he is that good. Our loss.

Don’t get me started!

And what does the brilliant recruitment team replace him with? Nabuli and MacDonald? Laughable!

By the way, who played on the left wing in 2016? My memory fails me.

 

[SBD82]

As two SOO standard players, I doubt either would be on “small contacts”.

Remember, this is the Chooks we’re talking about.

Scuttlrbutt never fails to make me smile.

Tupou signed his most recent contract with the roosters when he was coming back from injury, and nowhere near an origin standard player.

Ferguson wasn't paid highly because he couldn't keep himself out of trouble. Now that he has for a couple of years, the eels have thrown a good contract at him that the roosters haven't attempted to match.

Say whatever you like about the roosters, but one thing they do better than us is refuse to pay players beyond what they're worth.

 

[Drag Queen]

Don’t get me started!

And what does the brilliant recruitment team replace him with? Nabuli and MacDonald? Laughable!

By the way, who played on the left wing in 2016? My memory fails me.

I actually like Nene Jimmy. Hope he kills it with the Cowboys. Nothing wrong with your memory re 2016 you little trickster Xx

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

I actually like Nene Jimmy. Hope he kills it with the Cowboys. Nothing wrong with your memory re 2016 you little trickster Xx

I was being “fair dinks” re 2016. Nabuli “replaced” Morris in 2015 but who took over in 2016? Was it Peter Matu’tia? I seriously don’t recall.

 

[giboz71]

Souths won in 2014 with old man Tuquri and an 18 year old Alex Johnston. They also had teenage centres in Walker and Auva’a. Both RTS and Tupou were teenagers on rookie contracts in 2013.

Even in 2018, the Bunmies led the comp with Robert Jennings and a teenage Campbell Graham.

You don’t need to pay big money for wingers. The trick is to find young flyers who are fast and athletic and turn them into guns,

 

[Drag Queen]

Tupou signed his most recent contract with the roosters when he was coming back from injury, and nowhere near an origin standard player.

Ferguson wasn't paid highly because he couldn't keep himself out of trouble. Now that he has for a couple of years, the eels have thrown a good contract at him that the roosters haven't attempted to match.

Say whatever you like about the roosters, but one thing they do better than us is refuse to pay players beyond what they're worth.

Right..

 

[Dragonslayer]

Don’t get me started!

And what does the brilliant recruitment team replace him with? Nabuli and MacDonald? Laughable!

By the way, who played on the left wing in 2016? My memory fails me.

Nighty played mostly left wing in 2016 outside of Lafai.

Right wing started with Aitken, with Dugan at right centre. After a couple of games (Mann at f/b), Aitken was shifted to right centre and P. Mata Utai was the right winger for a few games then KFFL.
Nighty got injured and then Mann took over left wing.
When Nighty came back to left wing Mann shifted to right wing.

 

[Drag Queen]

I was being “fair dinks” re 2016. Nabuli “replaced” Morris in 2015 but who took over in 2016? Was it Peter Matu’tia? I seriously don’t recall.

I think you may be right. I think he went to Newy mid 2016 and they played Mann who ended up our top try scorer the same year. Don't quote me on this one because I thought you would know.

 

[RufusRex]

Nabuli sums up Mary's abilities to recognise/develop.

Discarded him early - Nabuli looked elsewhere - Injury meant he had to come back in and looked to actually grow as a player as he got used to the game. Scored a tough try in the semi loss. At this point Mary thinks shit - this player may have some ability and tried to retain him but the horse had bolted.

Not a world beater but better than many gave him credit for - just very inexperienced.

 

[blacksafake]

Souths won in 2014 with old man Tuquri and an 18 year old Alex Johnston. They also had teenage centres in Walker and Auva’a. Both RTS and Tupou were teenagers on rookie contracts in 2013.

Even in 2018, the Bunmies led the comp with Robert Jennings and a teenage Campbell Graham.

You don’t need to pay big money for wingers. The trick is to find young flyers who are fast and athletic and turn them into guns,

True
The trick is to have the right players inside of them who can create their opportunities.