2019 Top 30

[mxlegend99]

The only hammering is from you and others on here who chose to talk us down non stop without justification.

Without justification?

Weve had 3 guys forced to retire early through injury and have still had to release 3 more (Merrin, Peachey and CHN) just to keep some young guys at the club.

Outside of our starting 13 experience quickly vanishes to the point of having barely any at all outside of our top 17.

Our biggest issue has been a lack of experience which Gus has said so himself. Yet we got and lose 6 experienced players in a single season after having done similar the past 2 seasons.

Our starting 13 is fantastic. But shit goes downhill incredibly quickly once you hit our bench and depth. Sure we have the best nursery in the competition. But you dont win competitions when your top 30 has more reserve graders in it then first graders.

 

[Kilkenny]

Without justification?

Weve had 3 guys forced to retire early through injury and have still had to release 3 more (Merrin, Peachey and CHN) just to keep some young guys at the club.

Outside of our starting 13 experience quickly vanishes to the point of having barely any at all outside of our top 17.

Our biggest issue has been a lack of experience which Gus has said so himself. Yet we got and lose 6 experienced players in a single season after having done similar the past 2 seasons.

Our starting 13 is fantastic. But shit goes downhill incredibly quickly once you hit our bench and depth. Sure we have the best nursery in the competition. But you dont win competitions when your top 30 has more reserve graders in it then first graders.

I have a lot more faith in our younger players and squad overall than you do but that is hardly surprising. I am positive about 2019 and see Hethrington, Ellis. Lui Toso, Martin and others putting pressure on the established forwards.

We have a very solid squad and with the exception of Peachy all of the players either retired or released are more than adequately covered.

The three players released as mentioned by you were the subject of consistent criticism on here during 2018, not by me, for either lack of form or other issues and that includes Peachy who at one stage some suggested he should have been dropped.

The club considers retaining Kikau, Blake, Luai and numerous other players more important and essential to our future success and I don't see how that can be argued.

 

[franklin2323]

I have a lot more faith in our younger players and squad overall than you do but that is hardly surprising. I am positive about 2019 and see Hethrington, Ellis. Lui Toso, Martin and others putting pressure on the established forwards.

We have a very solid squad and with the exception of Peachy all of the players either retired or released are more than adequately covered.

The three players released as mentioned by you were the subject of consistent criticism on here during 2018, not by me, for either lack of form or other issues and that includes Peachy who at one stage some suggested he should have been dropped.

The club considers retaining Kikau, Blake, Luai and numerous other players more important and essential to our future success and I don't see how that can be argued.

No one is arguing they shouldn't be re-signed.

Gus named 35 players the other day as being contracted. 14 of them had 10 FG games combined. Luai fair enough he is replacing Maloney... but generally that is where the issue is with the squad

 

[OldPanther]

In the past maybe so. When Top 8's an stuff are done for 2019 which is the season we are discussing we will see.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...k=8bf8714ef8fc4cdd4f77770f6e9c4c4a-1542595294

though one has dropped. Has us and Broncos low on the list

PANTHERS — E-

Forwards: Sione Katoa, Tim Grant, Kaide Ellis, Liam Martin, Tyrell Fuimaono, Isaah Yeo, Jack Hetherington, Moses Leota, James Fisher-Harris, Viliame Kikau, Nick Lui-Toso, James Tamou, Paea Pua, Wayde Egan, Reagan Campbell-Gillard

Backs: Caleb Aekins, Jed Cartwright, Dallin Watene-Zelezniak, Josh Mansour, Dean Whare, Dylan Edwards, Malakai Watene-Zelezniak, Tyrone May, Tyrone Phillips, Nathan Cleary, James Maloney, Waqa Blake, Jarome Luai

Incoming: Tim Grant

Best recruit: Tim Grant returns home to Penrith for his farewell season. Whether he gets much of a run or not is another question, they have no shortage of quality bookends.

What do they need?: They could use another quality centre after losing Tyrone Peachey to the Titans. Waqa Blake and Dean Whare are the two clear starters in the squad, but there’s not much depth beyond those two.

I wouldn't use that article. It's the biggest pile of turd ever written. It completely discounts that clubs luke us and Broncos promote from within rather than buy players mostly and they even forgot that the Roosters have a backup half while listing him on the team list.

 

[OldPanther]

I have a lot more faith in our younger players and squad overall than you do but that is hardly surprising. I am positive about 2019 and see Hethrington, Ellis. Lui Toso, Martin and others putting pressure on the established forwards.

We have a very solid squad and with the exception of Peachy all of the players either retired or released are more than adequately covered.

The three players released as mentioned by you were the subject of consistent criticism on here during 2018, not by me, for either lack of form or other issues and that includes Peachy who at one stage some suggested he should have been dropped.

The club considers retaining Kikau, Blake, Luai and numerous other players more important and essential to our future success and I don't see how that can be argued.

I think you missed the point. He wasn't talking down the juniors he's saying it makes no sense that the cap coupd be so bad we need to lose 6 experienced players to retain some reserve graders.

 

[franklin2323]

I wouldn't use that article. It's the biggest pile of turd ever written. It completely discounts that clubs luke us and Broncos promote from within rather than buy players mostly and they even forgot that the Roosters have a backup half while listing him on the team list.

Most stuff from News limited is rosters are incomplete too which is what they used. Feb is the time the articles will show.

NRL.com had us finished 8th last year. Andrew Voss had as 6th...The has been many cases where haven't rated us. It's not like us on here are the only ones saying it

 

[TheEroticGamer]

It's even worse when you consider nrl.com had us 8th because that was the average prediction from all of their analysts. That means there were actually people dumb enough to have us missing the finals.

Rugby League 'experts' are genuinely some of the worst in sport. So dense.

 

[Kilkenny]

I think you missed the point. He wasn't talking down the juniors he's saying it makes no sense that the cap coupd be so bad we need to lose 6 experienced players to retain some reserve graders.

The figure of six is a myth. Are you including the likes of Wallace & Browne in there.

No one wanted Tim Browne to begin with, none of you rated him when he did play with us but conveniently use him to suit your arguments.

Forgot about the players you guys consider reserve graders how much do you think the club had to come up to retain Kikau, Blake, RCG and Cleary to name a few.

Do you think Kikau for example resigned for 300-400K. Don't think so.

If our salary cap is in poor shape, then god knows what description you would apply to at least half the other clubs in the NRL.

 

[franklin2323]

The figure of six is a myth. Are you including the likes of Wallace & Browne in there.

No one wanted Tim Browne to begin with, none of you rated him when he did play with us but conveniently use him to suit your arguments.

Forgot about the players you guys consider reserve graders how much do you think the club had to come up to retain Kikau, Blake, RCG and Cleary to name a few.

Do you think Kikau for example resigned for 300-400K. Don't think so.

If our salary cap is in poor shape, then god knows what description you would apply to at least half the other clubs in the NRL.

Depends where you think we are lacking really

 

[Kilkenny]

Most stuff from News limited is rosters are incomplete too which is what they used. Feb is the time the articles will show.

NRL.com had us finished 8th last year. Andrew Voss had as 6th...The has been many cases where haven't rated us. It's not like us on here are the only ones saying it

Where pundits predicted us to finish is not the issue. The issue is we are arguably had the worst injury toll of any side in the NRL in 2017 despite which we remained competitive, made the 8, won our first semi final and went within a point of progressing to a play for a GF spot. This only happened as a direct result of being so strong in depth. We can adequately cover all of the players who are know longer with us with the exception of perhaps Tyrone Peachy who provides versatility accross a range of positions. He will be a loss, no question but his release was business.

 

[Kilkenny]

Depends where you think we are lacking really

That's certainly a valid point. If I found the genie in the bottle and was granted one wish I would go with Latrell Mitchell.

 

[franklin2323]

Where pundits predicted us to finish is not the issue. The issue is we are arguably had the worst injury toll of any side in the NRL in 2017 despite which we remained competitive, made the 8, won our first semi final and went within a point of progressing to a play for a GF spot. This only happened as a direct result of being so strong in depth. We can adequately cover all of the players who are know longer with us with the exception of perhaps Tyrone Peachy who provides versatility accross a range of positions. He will be a loss, no question but his release was business.

How did we perform over the backend of the year? Maybe older more battle hardened don't fall away so quickly.

 

[mxlegend99]

I have a lot more faith in our younger players and squad overall than you do but that is hardly surprising. I am positive about 2019 and see Hethrington, Ellis. Lui Toso, Martin and others putting pressure on the established forwards.

We have a very solid squad and with the exception of Peachy all of the players either retired or released are more than adequately covered.

The three players released as mentioned by you were the subject of consistent criticism on here during 2018, not by me, for either lack of form or other issues and that includes Peachy who at one stage some suggested he should have been dropped.

The club considers retaining Kikau, Blake, Luai and numerous other players more important and essential to our future success and I don't see how that can be argued.

You said it was unjustified criticism. I was stating why it was justified.

When Phil Gould comes out stating our biggest flaw was inexperience in the same season we have lost a shitload of it.

Merrin had a poor 2018 season. But he was 100% without doubt better then whoever is to replace him. Likewise with CHN and Peachey.

None of these guys are being replaced with better players. Thr guys replacing them might be better one day. But when they are they will just be making way for the next group of players at the rate our cycle is going.

From 2016 through to2019 our roster has lost depth an experience each season. In 2018 Gus said that was an issue yet our 2019 squad has less depth and experience then any roster we have had in a long time.

We have alot of exciting prospects. But if we had injuries to 3 or 4 starters this year our side would look more reserve grade than first grade.

Which will happen without doubt at some point in 2019. If we kept them together the bench wouldn't really matter who was picked all that much. How much of our team picks itself?

1. Edwards
2. Dwz
3. Blake
4. Whare
5. Mansour
6. Maloney
7. Cleary
8. Tamou
9.
10. RCG
11. Kikau
12. Yeo
13. JFH

14. Leota

Give or take jersey numbers these are the only guys certain to be in our team.

One of Egan or Katoa will be hooker. The other might be bench. But neither is a certainty. May and Luai a chance at utility too. Again no certainties or standouts and f**k all experience no matter what way we go. All options require development.

You then have a bunch of fringe reserve graders with potential in Hetherington, Ellis, Martin, Lui-Toso, pua, Grant and Fuimaono. No standouts or certainties here. Very little experience aswell. All players requiring development. Aside from maybe Grant who requires 13 injuries to get a run in a Cleary coached team.

We're counting on 4+ guys who arent certainties every week stepping up in 2019. Its possible. But for every injury our starting side gets (which is always alot) we will be relying more and more on inexperienced guys stepping up.

For all the experience our current guys gained in 2018, we lost a lot more through forced retirement and early releases to go all in on our kids. Our 2019 roster is our 2018 roster minus Trent Merrin, Tyrone Peachey, Corey Harawira-Naera, Christian Crichton, Tim Browne, Peter Wallace and most likely Sam Mckendry. Feelings on these guys are mixed. But we are without doubt weaker without them and signing only Tim Grant and MWZ as replacements. They replace Browne and Crichton.

Ivan Cleary has a hell of a task ahead of him. Its not impossible. But our roster has gotten a hell of a lot weaker and requires a hell of a lot of development in 2019. It's essentially a mini rebuild.

 

[OldPanther]

The figure of six is a myth. Are you including the likes of Wallace & Browne in there.

No one wanted Tim Browne to begin with, none of you rated him when he did play with us but conveniently use him to suit your arguments.

Forgot about the players you guys consider reserve graders how much do you think the club had to come up to retain Kikau, Blake, RCG and Cleary to name a few.

Do you think Kikau for example resigned for 300-400K. Don't think so.

If our salary cap is in poor shape, then god knows what description you would apply to at least half the other clubs in the NRL.

Yes we are including them. They were part of our top 30 under the cap and now aren't. What does their quality or our opinions of their quality matter at all when the discussion was about money not who we rate as good players?

 

[franklin2323]

Yes we are including them. They were part of our top 30 under the cap and now aren't. What does their quality or our opinions of their quality matter at all when the discussion was about money not who we rate as good players?

McKendry 147 games
Wallace 204
Browne 108
CHN 46
Peachey 116 games
Merrin 204 games

Is still plenty of games off the roster. To be fair Grant and Fuimoano are 200 odd games back in

 

[OldPanther]

McKendry 147 games
Wallace 204
Browne 108
CHN 46
Peachey 116 games
Merrin 204 games

Is still plenty of games off the roster. To be fair Grant and Fuimoano are 200 odd games back in

Which is why people like you and mx are concerned but Kilkenny wants to turn it into a debate about being negative about our players who are actually good in his opinion.

 

[franklin2323]

Which is why people like you and mx are concerned but Kilkenny wants to turn it into a debate about being negative about our players who are actually good in his opinion.

Exactly. RCG has overtaken Merrin as our top prop and is paid accordingly. What was he on when Merrin came maybe $200k? Now given Merrin's strength was his experience use that $200k to hit that hole.

You are still spending the same money but not weakening the squad

 

[Abacus]

How did we perform over the backend of the year? Maybe older more battle hardened don't fall away so quickly.

Nah, that was the team being geared for a fast start to the year to take pressure off the coach. Look back the the preseason media - it was all about we can't be 2-9 again. Same as Dragons, we fired our shots early, gave teams the chance to scout us, injuries, origin, etc - and missed week 3 of the finals by a shanked FG attempt.

 

[Kilkenny]

Which is why people like you and mx are concerned but Kilkenny wants to turn it into a debate about being negative about our players who are actually good in his opinion.

No not what I’m doing at all. The games played by your six examples mean nothing. McKendry still with us, Wallace/Browne retired, Merrin/CHN business decisions to assist in resigning a stack of players and Peachy same deal although would have loved to kept him.

The money required to resign and upgrade RCG, Cleary, Blake, KIKau and numerous others does not grow of trees. Where does that come from? It is not rocket science but clearly beyond some on here.

I am simply saying someone like Trent Merrin see’s out the duration of his contract more than likely means there is not enough money to retain a more important player such as KiKau as one example. We get to retain KiKau and we have two or three young promising props to fight it out with say Tim Grant for a spot in the 17.

Same deal with CHN who I liked as a player but we have half a dozen back rowers who can do the same job.

What would the reaction on here have been if we had failed to secure KiKau and Blake!!!!!!!

 

[Luke Bowden]

I’m predicting a massive breakout year from Egan. From all accounts he’s training the house down!

Maybe he’s got wind of the Cook rumour.