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2021 season

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Whare was never going to play over Naden in the gf let’s be serious. He went with May for attacking reasons as much as defensive ones. He wanted May out there for his ball playing. It didn’t work obviously but the decision wasn’t just about defence.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Kikau made 6 or so errors
Cleary fails to find touch
Throws an intercept
We complete 60%

the whole game was poor. Changing a centre alone doesn't help

Exactly. We pretty much all played like shit, it was not just one decision at right centre that caused it, we choked.
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
3,242
Exactly. We pretty much all played like shit, it was not just one decision at right centre that caused it, we choked.

My original post had nothing to do with Naden changing gf result. He wouldn't have, we were outclassed on the night.

He shouldve started tho. Generally, picking players out of their natural position doesn't work and picking tmay at centre wasn't the right option.

Love tmay, great footballer but he's best at lock or 5/8. To slow laterally for centre.
 

maple_69

Bench
Messages
4,595
Yeah I think the decision is way overblown. We were in the contest the first quarter, missed our chances, then from memory (haven’t brought myself to rewatch) had a few 50/50s go against us and the Storm took their chance and then we lost our heads for half an hour.

I can’t remember a specific moment in that first 20 that Naden would have changed. We lacked experience to keep our heads in a big game when things weren’t going our way and we lacked the clinical execution to take control of the game in the first 20.

I’d hope last years experience plus a sprinkling of Origin experience (last year and this year) will ensure we don’t lose our heads again and get blown away. Our spine needs to figure out how to take full toll of any territory and possession when we get it against quality defence.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
He had all year to play someone else at centre. You dont change a side in a semifinal

May was used a few times during the year. Including Round 20. Played in the PF so it wasn't like it was just a GF change

The issue for me was not having another option ready to go.
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
3,242
Name me one centre that hasn't had a shocker in defence at some point.

IC thought he'd outsmart Bellamy and put tmay in to tighten up our defence. In reality it played right into Bellamy's hands and he targeted thst side knowing tmay is very slow laterally.

Ivan had a great year as coach but that was a blunder.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Name me one centre that hasn't had a shocker in defence at some point.

IC thought he'd outsmart Bellamy and put tmay in to tighten up our defence. In reality it played right into Bellamy's hands and he targeted thst side knowing tmay is very slow laterally.

Ivan had a great year as coach but that was a blunder.

Yep and all get dropped at some point you hope they come back better at some stage. As is the case here.

Targetted that side? By Vunivalu intercept? Or the Cam Smith try when Api knocked it out?
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
3,242
Yep and all get dropped at some point you hope they come back better at some stage. As is the case here.

Targetted that side? By Vunivalu intercept? Or the Cam Smith try when Api knocked it out?

Your constant defence of ivan gets a bit old. No one is saying he had a shit year,just the decision to drop naden was clearly wrong.

If you think dropping players after a few poor reads in defence is how to coach then you're way off the mark haha.

He had an average game in defence against the chooks but IC had a knee jerk reaction and dropped him after being very good all year. If he'd had 4 or 5 average games in a row sure, but thst definitely wasn't the case.

He was clearly targeted. You can't seriously watch the gf and tell me he wasn't. Bellamy knew he was slow laterally and it was exploited. They don't have to score try's one on one against tmay to prove he was targeted lol.

The play of the scrum where Paps scored was a perfect example of If Naden was there he wouldn't of scored.

Paps targeted Nathan and may knowing may is slower laterally. Tmay shouldve jammed in because it was obvious Nathan was burned. Olam was 6m back and was never going to get the ball. Even if he did he was so far back that Nathan etc wouldve been able to slide and cover easily. When tmay realised Nathan was burned he tried to jam in but was just way to slow.

A clear play by Bellamy to target the slow inexperienced centre Tmay. Naden has the lateral speed there to cover the inside (paps), or if he'd passed to olam, like I said he was so far back Naden Nathan wouldve been able to slide and cover.

Pretty basic defence really. Whare was much slower in his later years but he'd still have stopped that. Stay tight and slide backwards if they spread with inside d covering any inside balls. Tmay got exposed and so did ivan.

Would naden have won us the gf. Of course not. But like I've said twice know, that was never what my original post was about.
 

Smug Panther

First Grade
Messages
7,004
Your constant defence of ivan gets a bit old. No one is saying he had a shit year,just the decision to drop naden was clearly wrong.

If you think dropping players after a few poor reads in defence is how to coach then you're way off the mark haha.

He had an average game in defence against the chooks but IC had a knee jerk reaction and dropped him after being very good all year. If he'd had 4 or 5 average games in a row sure, but thst definitely wasn't the case.

He was clearly targeted. You can't seriously watch the gf and tell me he wasn't. Bellamy knew he was slow laterally and it was exploited. They don't have to score try's one on one against tmay to prove he was targeted lol.

The play of the scrum where Paps scored was a perfect example of If Naden was there he wouldn't of scored.

Paps targeted Nathan and may knowing may is slower laterally. Tmay shouldve jammed in because it was obvious Nathan was burned. Olam was 6m back and was never going to get the ball. Even if he did he was so far back that Nathan etc wouldve been able to slide and cover easily. When tmay realised Nathan was burned he tried to jam in but was just way to slow.

A clear play by Bellamy to target the slow inexperienced centre Tmay. Naden has the lateral speed there to cover the inside (paps), or if he'd passed to olam, like I said he was so far back Naden Nathan wouldve been able to slide and cover.

Pretty basic defence really. Whare was much slower in his later years but he'd still have stopped that. Stay tight and slide backwards if they spread with inside d covering any inside balls. Tmay got exposed and so did ivan.

Would naden have won us the gf. Of course not. But like I've said twice know, that was never what my original post was about.
Great post
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Your constant defence of ivan gets a bit old. No one is saying he had a shit year,just the decision to drop naden was clearly wrong.

If you think dropping players after a few poor reads in defence is how to coach then you're way off the mark haha.

He had an average game in defence against the chooks but IC had a knee jerk reaction and dropped him after being very good all year. If he'd had 4 or 5 average games in a row sure, but thst definitely wasn't the case.

He was clearly targeted. You can't seriously watch the gf and tell me he wasn't. Bellamy knew he was slow laterally and it was exploited. They don't have to score try's one on one against tmay to prove he was targeted lol.

The play of the scrum where Paps scored was a perfect example of If Naden was there he wouldn't of scored.

Paps targeted Nathan and may knowing may is slower laterally. Tmay shouldve jammed in because it was obvious Nathan was burned. Olam was 6m back and was never going to get the ball. Even if he did he was so far back that Nathan etc wouldve been able to slide and cover easily. When tmay realised Nathan was burned he tried to jam in but was just way to slow.

A clear play by Bellamy to target the slow inexperienced centre Tmay. Naden has the lateral speed there to cover the inside (paps), or if he'd passed to olam, like I said he was so far back Naden Nathan wouldve been able to slide and cover.

Pretty basic defence really. Whare was much slower in his later years but he'd still have stopped that. Stay tight and slide backwards if they spread with inside d covering any inside balls. Tmay got exposed and so did ivan.

Would naden have won us the gf. Of course not. But like I've said twice know, that was never what my original post was about.

Ivan is an ordinary coach. You won't get an argument from me BUT I think Naden is a winger not a centre.
 

panthersam

Juniors
Messages
615
May was used a few times during the year. Including Round 20. Played in the PF so it wasn't like it was just a GF change

The issue for me was not having another option ready to go.

Good to know we will have multiple options in most positions in 2021 and shouldn’t be stuck in that situation again!
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
3,242
Ivan is an ordinary coach. You won't get an argument from me BUT I think Naden is a winger not a centre.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think that?

It's fine you do. Others on here think the same, I just really dont get it.

Hes always been a centre right the way through the grades. Captained NYC to premiership from centre.

Yes he is still learning in defence but like I said, last season was basically he's first full fg season.

Just cause he is tall and good under the high ball doesn't mean he needs to be a winger. He can attack kicks from centre field and in fact Nathan tends to put in attacking bombs more midfield, away from the wing anyway to keep the ball infield and more likely in play. Watch all our games from last season. 90% of the time it's naden/Martin attacking them on the right. Not the winger. It was very effective too.

I think he's strengths definitely are more suited to centre, a position he's played his whole footy career.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Just out of curiosity, why do you think that?

It's fine you do. Others on here think the same, I just really dont get it.

Hes always been a centre right the way through the grades. Captained NYC to premiership from centre.

Yes he is still learning in defence but like I said, last season was basically he's first full fg season.

Just cause he is tall and good under the high ball doesn't mean he needs to be a winger. He can attack kicks from centre field and in fact Nathan tends to put in attacking bombs more midfield, away from the wing anyway to keep the ball infield and more likely in play. Watch all our games from last season. 90% of the time it's naden/Martin attacking them on the right. Not the winger. It was very effective too.

I think he's strengths definitely are more suited to centre, a position he's played his whole footy career.

No he was fullback when NYC won it. Got in team of the year in that position.
Was wing or bench in NSW Cup

I am not sure if you have Kayo and can watch old games. There were 2 games in particular at home v GC and Dragons were Mansour would of scored if given the ball.

Dragons game early on Naden was through the gap. Came to the fullback instead of drawing and passing to unmarked Mansour. Went for the corner and into touch. Few forward passes thrown too.

You saw the difference this year when Mansour was outside an actual centre

Throw in the can have bad reads in defence. He is good under the high ball. Generally good at kicks full stop and seems perfect winger.

The Souths game at Kogarah was his best game of the year on the wing. Even the tough stuff in the rain in Gosford he was good on the wing.

I know others don't agree but he is my right winger in a fully fit 17
 

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