The Game 2023 Membership

[wazdog]

How is it that Souths' 2022 membership number gets bigger with every update when a) the season had virtually finished by the first post, and b) the entire calendar year had ended by the most recent one?

The Rabbitohs membership number for 2022 (last known) is 31,067 in every post in this thread (3rd column).

 

[toomuchsoup]

Anyone know why a bunch of clubs don’t supply numbers, or just have estimates? Sharks numbers have been a bit of a mystery in recent years. And you’d think the Panthers would have pretty high numbers to report after their recent success

 

[Perth Red]

Anyone know why a bunch of clubs don’t supply numbers, or just have estimates? Sharks numbers have been a bit of a mystery in recent years. And you’d think the Panthers would have pretty high numbers to report after their recent success

Because they are no longer required to. Why they feel they wont is open to conjuncture. Maybe they are embarrassed by number, or lack of, maybe they don't feel its an equal playing field in reporting so unfair to measure against others, maybe they dont trust what others are reporting so why bother? Probably a combination of reasons depending on the club.

 

[Pneuma]

Because they are no longer required to. Why they feel they wont is open to conjuncture. Maybe they are embarrassed by number, or lack of, maybe they don't feel its an equal playing field in reporting so unfair to measure against others, maybe they dont trust what others are reporting so why bother? Probably a combination of reasons depending on the club.

Or is it because nobody really take’s membership numbers seriously anymore. The Wookie has explained this ad nauseam. Obviously some here don’t get it.

 

[Ozzi_78]

When you can give them away to school kids or make ya moggie a member then it’s hardly a measure that should be respected.

 

[Pneuma]

When you can give them away to school kids or make ya moggie a member then it’s hardly a measure that should be respected.

Exactly. Membership numbers lost their meaning some years ago.

 

[The_Wookie]

Exactly. Membership numbers lost their meaning some years ago.

For the NRL clubs its always been a murky one since they first really began the push a decade ago after being more focussed on season ticketing. Some clubs dont even report membership revenue (as differs to leagues club memberships). And the NRL itself seems to have cooled on the idea somewhat.

for the AFL this dilution happened around 2011 when they began counting 3 game memberships, then gradually eroded down to being at least one access game, and then a mimimum $50 spend and human contact details. 2 years ago it changed again, and theres now no minimum spend, making some memberships little more than a glorified mailing list.

Clubs are able to tout their memberships to sponsors and governments as engaged club supporters, if not attendees, which is where much of the value comes in. Roy Morgan occasionally has released survey data on club supporters and sponsor awareness over the years.

 

[League Unlimited News]

2023 NRL Membership Tracker » League Unlimited

leagueunlimited.com

 

[blukablu]

Pretty disappointing from the Broncos. Should easily get 40 - 50k members a year. Hopefully, with the Dolphins they actually put some effort in.

 

[Perth Red]

Be interesting to see how dolphins go, memberships for dolphins and broncos are on par price wise on a per game basis Behind sticks but sideline seats are massively more expensive for dolphins ($65 a game dolphins v $46 a game broncos) neither club offers good value jnr memberships.
Something the clubs really need to get on board with when there is spare stadium capacity in same way eels have. Eels are the only club that offer a free ga child membership with every adult membership.

 

[The Great Dane]

Something the clubs really need to get on board with when there is spare stadium capacity in same way eels have. Eels are the only club that offer a free ga child membership with every adult membership.

Papering isn't good for business in the long term.

Sure you get a bigger attendance in the short term, but in the long term it lowers the value of your tickets and signals to potential customers that your show isn't very popular, and thus probably not worth attending. As general rules people won't pay for things that they can get for free and want the hottest ticket in town, not the cheapest.

It's also very tinpot, amateur hour, stuff and frankly makes me question the validity of the Eels' membership numbers. I mean are these free kids memberships being counted to their membership tally? They shouldn't be if so.

 

[Perth Red]

I

Papering isn't good for business in the long term.

Sure you get a bigger attendance in the short term, but in the long term it lowers the value of your tickets and signals to potential customers that your show isn't very popular, and thus probably not worth attending. As general rules people won't pay for things that they can get for free and want the hottest ticket in town, not the cheapest.

It's also very tinpot, amateur hour, stuff and frankly makes me question the validity of the Eels' membership numbers. I mean are these free kids memberships being counted to their membership tally? They shouldn't be if so.

when it comes to free kids it’s an investment for the future.
nithing to be gained by charging so much for a night at the footy on,y dad can attend on his own, or all the family stay home and watch in tv.

they probably are, just like storms free membership for registered Victorian players. It’s a pointless exercise even compiling membership numbers given there is zero validity or reliability in them.

if there’s one thing Vlandys hates it’s public accountability, stopping counting memberships is just another way the nrl now hides a metric of growth.

 

[The Great Dane]

I

when it comes to free kids it’s an investment for the future.
nithing to be gained by charging so much for a night at the footy on,y dad can attend on his own, or all the family stay home and watch in tv.

they probably are, just like storms free membership for registered Victorian players. It’s a pointless exercise even compiling membership numbers given there is zero validity or reliability in them.

if there’s one thing Vlandys hates it’s public accountability, stopping counting memberships is just another way the nrl now hides a metric of growth.

There's absolutely something to be gained; paying customers.

Professional football isn't a charity, it needs to make money and the more money it makes the better it is for everyone involved. All giving away free tickets on such a scale does is take away a seat that could have been sold and paper over the cracks in the business.

I mean this brings all of Parra's membership and attendance numbers into question. Let's be reasonably conservative and say that roughly a third of their average crowds are children. With an average attendance of 20k last year that's potentially up to 6k people in the stands whom didn't pay to be there whom might have in other circumstances.

Furthermore, how are the Eels confirming that their free tickets are actually going to kids!?

The answer is that they probably can't in reality. So what is to stop a person claiming their free kids GA ticket and using it to get their friends into the ground, or people going halves in the cost of a season ticket and claiming the free kids membership to get both in to the ground, etc.
Any group of mates with an average IQ of 80 between them could easily get up to half their friend group into the stadium free of charge, and that's a potentially huge amount of lost revenue over the course of a season.

And investment in the future my arse!

It's a lazy excuse for marketing from a business that doesn't need ticket sales to survive anymore and can't be bothered to put effort into that area of business as a result, but also can't afford to allow attendance numbers to drop too low for other commercial reasons. So instead of trying to push their sales numbers they're trying to paper the house on a weekly basis, and doing a pretty piss-poor job of it I might add.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Be interesting to see how dolphins go, memberships for dolphins and broncos are on par price wise on a per game basis Behind sticks but sideline seats are massively more expensive for dolphins ($65 a game dolphins v $46 a game broncos) neither club offers good value jnr memberships.
Something the clubs really need to get on board with when there is spare stadium capacity in same way eels have. Eels are the only club that offer a free ga child membership with every adult membership.

Bulldogs tried to up memberships with a $99 option behind the posts in the early 2010's. It really didn't change much, if anything it cannibalised more premium membership packages despite being great value.

What really needs to happen, is that all membership packages should be available start of Dec. Then the NRL advertises that what you need is a membership package for xmas. I reckon that would drive up memberships. I don't really think clubs care.

 

[Perth Red]

Bulldogs tried to up memberships with a $99 option behind the posts in the early 2010's. It really didn't change much, if anything it cannibalised more premium membership packages despite being great value.

What really needs to happen, is that all membership packages should be available start of Dec. Then the NRL advertises that what you need is a membership package for xmas. I reckon that would drive up memberships. I don't really think clubs care.

Yeh it still staggers me clubs dont have memberships ready for Xmas sale!
Not surprisingly Smith could see the value of increasing active fanbases and when he started the membership push, centrally funded it, centrally managed it and publicly reported the outcomes of it things went gangbusters.

'NRL boss Dave Smith has outlined his plan to double club membership numbers by 2017 as part of what he has called a ''massive cultural shift'' across the code. ''It's the biggest single thing the game's done, in terms of members, ever,'' Smith told Fairfax Media on Thursday. ''And it won't just be a one-off.''

NRL boss Dave Smith wants to double club memberships by 2017

NRL boss Dave Smith has outlined his plan to double club membership numbers by 2017 as part of what he has called a ''massive cultural shift'' across the code. ''It's the biggest single thing the game's done, in terms of members, ever,'' Smith told Fairfax Media on Thursday. ''And it won't just...

www.smh.com.au

Greenberg handed it back to the clubs then stopped the funding and now Vlandys has hidden the accountability of the numbers so we cant see the negative impact of that strategy. Dumb moves all round since Smith left.

 

[Perth Red]

There's absolutely something to be gained; paying customers.

Professional football isn't a charity, it needs to make money and the more money it makes the better it is for everyone involved. All giving away free tickets on such a scale does is take away a seat that could have been sold and paper over the cracks in the business.

I mean this brings all of Parra's membership and attendance numbers into question. Let's be reasonably conservative and say that roughly a third of their average crowds are children. With an average attendance of 20k last year that's potentially up to 6k people in the stands whom didn't pay to be there whom might have in other circumstances.

Furthermore, how are the Eels confirming that their free tickets are actually going to kids!?

The answer is that they probably can't in reality. So what is to stop a person claiming their free kids GA ticket and using it to get their friends into the ground, or people going halves in the cost of a season ticket and claiming the free kids membership to get both in to the ground, etc.
Any group of mates with an average IQ of 80 between them could easily get up to half their friend group into the stadium free of charge, and that's a potentially huge amount of lost revenue over the course of a season.

And investment in the future my arse!

It's a lazy excuse for marketing from a business that doesn't need ticket sales to survive anymore and can't be bothered to put effort into that area of business as a result, but also can't afford to allow attendance numbers to drop too low for other commercial reasons. So instead of trying to push their sales numbers they're trying to paper the house on a weekly basis, and doing a pretty piss-poor job of it I might add.

Why do fast food places and supermarkets give out free kids toys?
Sure it might be rorted by some fans, but thats on the club to care enough to police that. If there really are 6000 kids at Eels games, and I very much doubt it having been to one, then that is awesome and is breeding the next generation of Parra fans, they want merch, they will grow up attending games and buying their own memberships in years tcome . If they had to pay what other clubs charge maybe there'd be 1000 there and those other 5000 would not grow up being life long active fans of the club?

Like I said the membership numbers are no longer worth the paper they are written on. Clubs can literally be making any number up they like and NRL doesnt care because it is no longer part of its own strategy or measurement for growing the game.

 

[Saxon]

The Roosters Cap looks the same as last years one

Yes, larger than anyone else's.

 

[The Great Dane]

Why do fast food places and supermarkets give out free kids toys?
Sure it might be rorted by some fans, but thats on the club to care enough to police that. If there really are 6000 kids at Eels games, and I very much doubt it having been to one, then that is awesome and is breeding the next generation of Parra fans, they want merch, they will grow up attending games and buying their own memberships in years tcome . If they had to pay what other clubs charge maybe there'd be 1000 there and those other 5000 would not grow up being life long active fans of the club?

Like I said the membership numbers are no longer worth the paper they are written on. Clubs can literally be making any number up they like and NRL doesnt care because it is no longer part of its own strategy or measurement for growing the game.

The marketing strategy behind promotional kids meals isn't even close to papering, and to pretend that it is is an insult to both our intelligence.

It's actually ingenious, if not morally questionable, to use cross-promotion and a literally valueless toy to incentivise children to influence their parents to buy the family dinner from your fast food place over the competitions. Note the bit about buying the family dinner, i.e. everything is paid for.

An equivalent strategy to that would be for the Eels to give away a cheap piece of merchandise with every sale of a kids ticket, or something similar, in the hope that kids would beg their parents to take them to the footy to get the toy. But I digress.

Something given isn't valued either. Those kids are going to grow up not understanding the actual value of admission and will think the true cost is unreasonable, which is exactly what ends up happening when theatre, festivals, wrestling, circuses, and other similar businesses, paper the house too often. Supporters = customers in this context, and customers that become entitled to the product for free, or so cheaply that the business can't recoup costs and hopefully make a profit, aren't very valuable...

Whether or not the NRL currently values membership numbers, or ticket sales more generally, is pretty irrelevant from the argument as well. They should value every revenue stream, they should be looking to maximise every revenue stream as much as reasonably possible, they shouldn't allow any of their clubs to undersell the product, and the fact they don't do any of the above is just one of a myriad of reasons why competitors like the AFL and it's clubs are so far ahead of them.

 

[Perth Red]

The marketing strategy behind promotional kids meals isn't even close to papering, and to pretend that it is is an insult to both our intelligence.

It's actually ingenious, if not morally questionable, to use cross-promotion and a literally valueless toy to incentivise children to influence their parents to buy the family dinner from your fast food place over the competitions. Note the bit about buying the family dinner, i.e. everything is paid for.

An equivalent strategy to that would be for the Eels to give away a cheap piece of merchandise with every sale of a kids ticket, or something similar, in the hope that kids would beg their parents to take them to the footy to get the toy. But I digress.

Something given isn't valued either. Those kids are going to grow up not understanding the actual value of admission and will think the true cost is unreasonable, which is exactly what ends up happening when theatre, festivals, wrestling, circuses, and other similar businesses, paper the house too often. Supporters = customers in this context, and customers that become entitled to the product for free, or so cheaply that the business can't recoup costs and hopefully make a profit, aren't very valuable...

Whether or not the NRL currently values membership numbers, or ticket sales more generally, is pretty irrelevant from the argument as well. They should value every revenue stream, they should be looking to maximise every revenue stream as much as reasonably possible, they shouldn't allow any of their clubs to undersell the product, and the fact they don't do any of the above is just one of a myriad of reasons why competitors like the AFL and it's clubs are so far ahead of them.

You do know afl provides massively subsidised tickets for kids don’t you? I made the point re the toys because many companies use strategies to attract kids and get lifetime brand loyalty. its equally usual to see buy one get one free offers as an example.
kids don’t know their seat is free, or care. What they do care about is cheering the club on and that carrys on for life hopefully.
I started watching my club when I was ten, admission was 50p for me lol 40 plus years on and Im still a passionate supporter of that club.
Get them young, keep for them for life!

 

[Perth Red]

Interesting to see some afl clubs offering a digital membership which includes 12 months kayo subscription and members pack for just $240. Haven’t seen any nrl clubs offering this? It’s aGood idea, saves $120 just on the kayo subs.