2nd Test: South Africa v Australia at Port Elizabeth Feb 20-24, 2014

[jargan83]

At the moment there just isn't a place in the side for Watson

The only people in the top 7 that didn't spend time in the middle were Rogers, who has come off a successful 10 Tests against England including a century during the last test in Australoa and Haddin who didn't bat second time around.

Our bowlers are doing the job at the moment

 

[umina panther]

Well unless you are punting Doolan after making 89 and 20 odd, who else is going to be dropped? Marsh made 148 and 40 odd..Clarke is the captain, Smith made a ton...

I don't think he should be anywhere near the team, his batting record is abysmal for someone who thinks he's a top 3 batsman

 

[typicalfan]

Why does Marsh get a year and Rogers get a few games?

 

[BunniesMan]

Why does Marsh get a year and Rogers get a few games?

Because Marsh is brand new to the team and he potentially has a long term future. Rogers is and always has been a place holder. Rogers should and will get this entire series but at his age I don't think his spot can be justified if he has 3 bad tests in a row. If the likes of Hughes and Khawaja and a multitude of other younger players don't get another chance after 3 (or in some cases 1 or 2) poor performances then Rogers shouldn't.

Marsh's runs in this test guarantees him a spot in the next series. Warner, Doolan and Smith also did enough to guarantee their spots in the next series. Clarke could get 4 ducks in the next 2games and his spot won't be at risk.

But 4 more failures from Rogers? I don't think he can survive any longer than that if he doesn't perform.

 

[typicalfan]

Remember Rogers was our best batsman across the last two test series.

I don't think anyone is under pressure yet and any loss in form can be attributed to a long summer. I think unless we lose the series we should look to retain the team for Pakistan.

 

[HevyDevy]

The last thing we need is a 5th bowler. Our bowlers are consistently winning us games. Our top order is consistently struggling to give us a good start. In both innings it was only 1 big partnership that turned an average innings into a great innings. That was the case for a lot of the Ashes aswell. Our priority has to be picking the best 6 batsmen we can and not worrying about a "handy" 5th bowler.

And about Rogers specifically, people are well aware of me being a fan of a particular player outside of the current XI, and that none of the other 5 batsmen are going to get dropped in the forseeable future. But even I think there should be absolutely no talk of dropping Rogers in this series.

At the very least he should be a lock for the next two tests. His Ashes form has earned that much.

I would guarantee the selection of Clarke (obviously), Warner, Doolan, Marsh and Smith for the rest of the year. And I would guarantee Rogers the 2nd and 3rd test of this series.

Watson (and Hughes) should not be considered in this series barring injury.

Actually I would love to see the Watson era come to an end, but don't for a minute pretend that Rogers hasn't played a part in our top order problems. Absurd.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I still think Watson's bowling would be handy - perhaps in for Rogers? Again, we need to address our top order first innings issues. Not that Watson is a solution but I'm willing to tinker a bit.

Rogers has scored two tons & a fifty is his past 3 matches.

That would be beyond cruel.

 

[BunniesMan]

Actually I would love to see the Watson era come to an end, but don't for a minute pretend that Rogers hasn't played a part in our top order problems. Absurd.

I'm not saying he hasn't. He absolutely deserves his fair share of criticism. All of the top 3 or 4 had some good scores in between a lot of averages ones and very few substantial big partnerships.

But having said that he deserves the next 2 tests. If he fails in both of them then I'd be willing to make a change for the Pakistan series.

 

[BunniesMan]

Rogers has scored two tons & a fifty is his past 3 matches.

That would be beyond cruel.

Hughes had 3 good scores in his last 4 tests, all 3 of them were on much tougher pitches in significantly harder in game situations (we were getting beaten and there was a collapse at the other end) and he got dropped.

I want Rogers (and every batsman) to have the fair go Hughes didn't.

When it comes to Rogers I'm in the middle ground compared to others on here. I don't think there should be talk of dropping him for the next test, but he also shouldn't be guaranteed a place in the next series.

He has two tests to earn a spot against Pakistan

 

[herbert henry1908]

Actually I would love to see the Watson era come to an end, but don't for a minute pretend that Rogers hasn't played a part in our top order problems. Absurd.

If you drop a player who has scored two centuries & a fifty in the past 3 matches it sends the totally wrong message to the team.

You keep talking about 1st innings runs and dismiss second innings runs, but traditionaly second innings runs are much harder to score because of the wicket.

Theres no doubt our first innings need to be better but you're totally blowing it out of proportion.

We've batted first in 5 of our last 6 matches. Its not unusual at all for early wickets to be lost on day one in the first session or so. That's when bowling conditions are the best.

 

[HevyDevy]

I agree. I'm not actually proposing they make changes yet.

But people saying Warner and Rogers and Warson a d even Doolan in this Test have all scored recent runs, well they have all done so in the second innings when under no pressure.

Our top order has failed EVERY time in the first innings in the last six Tests. Because our middle order and bowlers have saved the day EVERY time we tend to overlook the top order's failings, but eventually we'll need to find someone capable of getting us off to a good start.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Hughes had 3 good scores in his last 4 tests, all 3 of them were on much tougher pitches in significantly harder in game situations (we were getting beaten and there was a collapse at the other end) and he got dropped.

I want Rogers (and every batsman) to have the fair go Hughes didn't.

When it comes to Rogers I'm in the middle ground compared to others on here. I don't think there should be talk of dropping him for the next test, but he also shouldn't be guaranteed a place in the next series.

He has two tests to earn a spot against Pakistan

Firstly he had two good scores. Not three.

45 is an OK innings at best.

He also failed to get to double figures 5 of his last 8 innings. This was his third chance in the team. Whenever you're recalled you get less of an opportunity to impress. That's been the same for any other player.



Over rogers last 4 matches he has two centuries & two fifties.

He didn't get to double figures twice.

 

[HevyDevy]

If you drop a player who has scored two centuries & a fifty in the past 3 matches it sends the totally wrong message to the team.

You keep talking about 1st innings runs and dismiss second innings runs, but traditionaly second innings runs are much harder to score because of the wicket.

Theres no doubt our first innings need to be better but you're totally blowing it out of proportion.

We've batted first in 5 of our last 6 matches. Its not unusual at all for early wickets to be lost on day one in the first session or so. That's when bowling conditions are the best.

And you seem to overlook how easy it is to score second innings runs when you're 200 ahead on the first innings...

 

[herbert henry1908]

I agree. I'm not actually proposing they make changes yet.

But people saying Warner and Rogers and Warson a d even Doolan in this Test have all scored recent runs, well they have all done so in the second innings when under no pressure.

Our top order has failed EVERY time in the first innings in the last six Tests. Because our middle order and bowlers have saved the day EVERY time we tend to overlook the top order's failings, but eventually we'll need to find someone capable of getting us off to a good start.

You totally glossed over my point about us batting on day 1 though.


Our top order have had to face a new ball & new wicket in 5 of the last 6 matches.


Its not unusual at all to lose early wickets on day 1 of a test.

If that situation had been reversed and we had bowled first 5 of the last 6 times I would almost guarantee the top ordered first innings would be better.





And again you're obsessed with this "pressure off" stuff but ignore batting conditions become harder on day 3 onwards.

Most batsmen actually average less in the second innings than the first.

 

[herbert henry1908]

And you seem to overlook how easy it is to score second innings runs when you're 200 ahead on the first innings...

Not at all.

That's one factor at play for sure. But not the only one.


You're blinkered on this, there are more factors at play than you care to acknowledge.

 

[HevyDevy]

The only factor I'm concerned about is whether or not our current top order has the ability to score runs under pressure. The evidence says no.

That's not to say I'm calling for changes, but I also know our top order isn't settled.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Its too small a sample to say that though. Not to mention its also a skewed sample.


We need more evidence & time.

 

[typicalfan]

Wasn't the main reason for our top order woes Watson anyway?

He is the only batsman in the top 4 that hasn't gotten a big score apart from a slog in the boxing day test. The rest have all gotten 100s.

 

[some11]

Smith saying the pitch had more to do with anything than any bowler in the world.

Your guys bowled on the same pitch dickhead.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

Smith saying the pitch had more to do with anything than any bowler in the world.

Your guys bowled on the same pitch dickhead.

:lol:

There's no bigger bully of extremely favourable pitches Vernon Philander and how did he go?

Theoretically they had the best of this hand grenade Kiwi green top and we were what, 4/300 on day 1? South African mental collapse at its finest.

Go through the 4 wickets on day 1 and 3 were playing horizontal bat shots and another was gloved to short leg. They're not the dismissals of a seamers pitch.