3-2-1 v Knights

[Thatwasnthighref]

Ford is an edge back rower who never had to do this job until recently either. Webster chucked him into the middle, and then turned him into a starting big minutes prop, without prior evidence he could do either role. Aside from cliches about the gutsy Aussie journeyman, I don’t know why it’s assumed Jackson Ford is the only guy capable of getting through a lot of work?

It’s also not as simple as “we have a Jackson Ford shaped hole to fill” either because there’s plenty of different ways to structure a forward pack. But as I’ve conceded, Webster clearly has a plan and I’ve accepted swapping in Ford for Barnett is easily the least disruptive way to keep that plan going.

To be fair, the coaching staff have access to info we're not privy to... GPS trackers give them all sorts of data on distance covered, intensity, effort zones etc. Even acceleration/deceleration metrics to measure collision efforts.

So maybe its not an assumption (by the coaches at least) at all, maybe its backed by hard data. You'd certainly hope so anyway.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

To be fair, the coaching staff have access to info we're not privy to... GPS trackers give them all sorts of data on distance covered, intensity, effort zones etc. Even acceleration/deceleration metrics to measure collision efforts.

So maybe its not an assumption (by the coaches at least) at all, maybe its backed by hard data. You'd certainly hope so anyway.

oh 100%. I would also guess that in the pre-season certain guys physically train/prime themselves for certain roles. So, Ford may have been placed in a certain category for this season ("high work rate middle" for example) and he may be the only guy left in the squad who has trained for and has the fitness base for the particular role in 2025.

I'm less convinced that Ford is some sort of genetic outlier doing something other guys never could though. Aside from looking at the changes of role Ford himself has gone through, you only have to look directly across from him to Erin Clark as another example. Bloke was really a halfback who transitioned to hooker and then pretty deep into his career became a bench middle and then a high workrate starting middle. As the workrate required of him has increased so has his weight, to the point where currently he is pretty visibly carrying a fair bit of timber while getting through a heap of work.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

tl;dr - a decision was made to invest in Ford for his current role(s), I don't agree that there is something so exceptional about him that the same investment couldn't have been directed towards different players. But what's done is done.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

oh 100%. I would also guess that in the pre-season certain guys physically train/prime themselves for certain roles. So, Ford may have been placed in a certain category for this season ("high work rate middle" for example) and he may be the only guy left in the squad who has trained for and has the fitness base for the particular role in 2025.

I'm less convinced that Ford is some sort of genetic outlier doing something other guys never could though. Aside from looking at the changes of role Ford himself has gone through, you only have to look directly across from him to Erin Clark as another example. Bloke was really a halfback who transitioned to hooker and then pretty deep into his career became a bench middle and then a high workrate starting middle. As the workrate required of him has increased so has his weight, to the point where currently he is pretty visibly carrying a fair bit of timber while getting through a heap of work.

No I dont see Ford as some genetic freak either; agree it'll simply be a case of a fitness base they started building last November.

Re: your comment about investment - I watched SJ's interview with Demetric recently, the young fella talked about returning from his ACL injury last year several kilos over his normal playing weight and having to make that ground up during off season. Had it not been for that, he may well have been invested in.

It will be interesting to see how he's used next year if he can go into this upcoming pre-season primed. His workload has already increased from 25mins pg to nearly 40 since Barnett was injured, so there's an engine there waiting to be tuned.

As impressive as Leka's highlights have been, I reckon Demetric has been equally impressive in the trenches. Quick, aggressive on both sides, good hands (ala try assist for Fish)... man the kid could become anything. The club's done a wonderful job unearthing and developing those two lads.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

No I dont see Ford as some genetic freak either; agree it'll simply be a case of a fitness base they started building last November.

Re: your comment about investment - I watched SJ's interview with Demetric recently, the young fella talked about returning from his ACL injury last year several kilos over his normal playing weight and having to make that ground up during off season. Had it not been for that, he may well have been invested in.

It will be interesting to see how he's used next year if he can go into this upcoming pre-season primed. His workload has already increased from 25mins pg to nearly 40 since Barnett was injured, so there's an engine there waiting to be tuned.

As impressive as Leka's highlights have been, I reckon Demetric has been equally impressive in the trenches. Quick, aggressive on both sides, good hands (ala try assist for Fish)... man the kid could become anything. The club's done a wonderful job unearthing and developing those two lads.

Yeah I think I've become just about the biggest Demetric fan here. Funny, cos initially (based on a small sample size obviously) I didn't think much of him. I thought he was sort of a pretty straight up and done smallish prop/backrower hybrid, the sort of guy who will give it 100% but isn't enough of a physical specimen to dominate (hey kinda sounds like Ford).

Apparently he played in the backs coming through? I'm starting to see that now, I think he's a couple of yards faster than most realise and definitely skillful. He's quite different to Leka, but I think they are similar in that they are explosive through speed, footwork and consistent aggression and fitness rather than being massive.

I'm always looking for the next Lauiti'iti or AFB or Vatuvei, guys whose sheer combination of speed and mass could make them unstoppable. The Warriors current recruitment model seems to be about being circa 6ft and 100kg, fast, fit, and footy smart. I probably need to catch up.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Apparently he played in the backs coming through? I'm starting to see that now, I think he's a couple of yards faster than most realise and definitely skillful. He's quite different to Leka, but I think they are similar in that they are explosive through speed, footwork and consistent aggression and fitness rather than being massive.

Yea he mentions that in the interview too, played midfield for La Salle's 1st XV. Certainly showed it with that little pop pass for Fish.

He also said he feels defence is his biggest strength and he wants to be known as an aggressive defender, someone that teams don't want to run at.

Hearing that from a young fella nearly made me emotional. I love that shit. Often young players who are good attackers aren't quite as enthusiastic about defending, but to hear he aspires to be a tough defender... so so good.

 

[TheDMC]

Yea he mentions that in the interview too, played midfield for La Salle's 1st XV. Certainly showed it with that little pop pass for Fish.

He also said he feels defence is his biggest strength and he wants to be known as an aggressive defender, someone that teams don't want to run at.

Hearing that from a young fella nearly made me emotional. I love that shit. Often young players who are good attackers aren't quite as enthusiastic about defending, but to hear he aspires to be a tough defender... so so good.

I watched that interview and was impressed with his character and awareness.

 

[TheDMC]

As impressive as Leka's highlights have been, I reckon Demetric has been equally impressive in the trenches. Quick, aggressive on both sides, good hands (ala try assist for Fish)... man the kid could become anything. The club's done a wonderful job unearthing and developing those two lads.

Can we refrain from using this inane superlative on our forum please. A really annoying Andrew Johnsism. No offense intended but I f**king hate it.

 

[ozenzud]

Re the Ford debate, nobody is saying (I don't think) that Ford is a superstar. He's doing a job and thats it. No outstanding games (except maybe one here and there) and an occasional crap one. The main stat, Warriors currently sit in 4th and who picked that at the start of the season? As far as I'm concerned I'd rather have Barnett or Fonua Blake or some other big prop but we don't. He's playing his best and we are doing good. Support him!

I recall last year, Montoya got lots of hate. I loved him. Not because he was a great player, but he gave it everything.

 

[Big Marn]

Re the Ford debate, nobody is saying (I don't think) that Ford is a superstar. He's doing a job and thats it. No outstanding games (except maybe one here and there) and an occasional crap one. The main stat, Warriors currently sit in 4th and who picked that at the start of the season? As far as I'm concerned I'd rather have Barnett or Fonua Blake or some other big prop but we don't. He's playing his best and we are doing good. Support him!

I recall last year, Montoya got lots of hate. I loved him. Not because he was a great player, but he gave it everything.

i dont think its about not supporting him. i think its more about whether Webby is going to consider that its time for him to take a step back from his workload and see what Vaumaga can do. just some tweaking of the minutes. Maybe we can squeeze abit more juice out of the team to give them a better chance in the playoffs. Its as simple as that isnt it?

 

[SpaceMonkey]

The assumed basis for "needing" Ford seems to be that he can play the exact right number of minutes which allows everyone else to play the exact number of minutes they are best served playing. This seems like a stretch to me and makes the unintuitive assumption that the rest of the squad is unfit.

Some players have bigger motors than others, particularly forwards. Ford is one of those guys.