3rd ODI: New Zealand v Sri Lanka at Nelson on Dec 31, 2015

[JJ]

then how come a pair of nuffies like Holland and Bennett went trough them like a dodgy vindaloo and yet they were just about invincible against pace

they did not play spin well and we beat them in all their glory at the height of their success with a pair of nuffies who hardly ever played again after that test match

They were invincible against your lot - :lol: one test, in a series you were thrashed in - well done twizz... you won a test in Sydney against us too, Hadlee still took wickets, and we thrashed you in Brisbane and Perth - you're clutching at straws

If they couldn't be beaten in India and Pakistan, you really think one test in Sydney means f**k all - your lot were (and are) worse against spin

 

[Twizzle]

we beat them with 2 spinners on a turning pitch, but apparently it means nothing ?

lol

we beat them when they were invincible and they didn't play spin well at all and it was well known at the time that it was their Achilles and your response is to talk about how good we are against spin bowling, that's generally called deflection

nothing new here

 

[JJ]

You won a test? Did you win a series??? Did India win a series on turning pitches? Did Pakistan?

I expect having already beaten the shit out of you they were more interested in the ladies on offer by the time they got to Sydney - your great teams also performed poorly once that had beaten the shit out of opposition

But yeah, they couldn't play spin because they lost a test or two in Sydney :lol: :lol:

 

[Twizzle]

Now you're getting it.

 

[JJ]

Now you're getting it.

Yeah, and who's the Greenwich fella you refer to, I remember Greenidge and Haynes, Gomes, Richards, Kallicharan, Rowe etc - but Greenwich doesn't ring a bell - dasher was he? Poor against spin, I expect :roll:

 

[ANTiLAG]

wrong era, I was talking 80s

batting lineup was Greenwich, Haynes, Vivvy, Lloyd, Gomes and Richardson et al

Hirwani and Qadir are 80s.

Do you even read? Lloyd with Richardson is a small sample.

 

[ANTiLAG]

we beat them with 2 spinners on a turning pitch, but apparently it means nothing ?

lol

we beat them when they were invincible and they didn't play spin well at all and it was well known at the time that it was their Achilles and your response is to talk about how good we are against spin bowling, that's generally called deflection

nothing new here

So when the great Steve Waugh team loses 2 tests in the West Indies is it because Australia cannot face fast medium bowlers?

So when the great Steve Waugh team loses a test series in India is it because it cannot play spin?

What bowling attacks could the great Steve Waugh team then play?

That is why your logic is stuffed.

You need a bigger sample to convince anyone that the Windies could not play spin well. They had no issue with Qadir and Hirwani after rolling them in one test, is then destroyed in the next 3 tests. Could they play Hirwani? I mean he got 16 wickets in ONE test against them? Do you ignore the next 3 tests?

It'd be like Kiwis claiming that Pakistan could not play swing the late 80's and early 90's because Chris Pringle decimated them once.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Warne averages 29.95 against the ordinary West Indian teams where Lara was often a sole batting light as Chanderpaul did not get very good consistently till late in his long career.

I appreciate Shane Warne is an all time cricketing legend and widely regarded by many (who often did not see Clarrie Grimett) as the best leg spinner ever, but some Australians talk like he invented leg spin bowling.

Qadir did not do spectacularly well against the West Indies.

Hirwani did do this on debut:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63469.html

In his next 3 West Indian tests he took 6 wickets for 344 runs averaging 57. Hirwani never recovered from that bashing. He was 4 tests, 36 wickets averaging 14 going into it with 3 five for's and a 10 wicket bag.

Ahmed fizzled in 1990 at home against Vivless WI.

Border once got 11 wicket bag with a 7 for against them. Maybe they fail against all spinners? No.

wrong era, I was talking 80s

batting lineup was Greenwich, Haynes, Vivvy, Lloyd, Gomes and Richardson et al

Hirwani plays WI in 4 tests 1988 - 1989 in sum total.
Qadir plays WI in 10 tests 1980-1990
Ahmed plays WI in 1990 in 2 tests against Greenidge, Haynes, Richardson, Logie, Hooper, Dujon, Marshall.

You can claim 1990 as part of the 90's decade (others would say 80's is 1981-1990) but he is playing against a lot of the 1980's players.

Hirwani averaged 43 in ODIs against West Indies.
Qadir averaged 39 in ODIs against West Indies
Ahmed averages 57 in ODIS played in 1989 (gets better later in the 1990s).

In the mid to late 1970's LLoyd, Richards, even Gomes (in a WSC depleted team) have very little if any difficulty with BS Chandrasekhar even in matches in India. Kallicharran had a ball of a time and scored some big 100's. Viv scored a 177 against Chanderaeskhar at home, and a 190 odd in India against an impressive spin line up (BS Chand is not in that match). And Lloyd - well he averages 58 against India, with 100's all through his career against them and bowling attacks with Chanderaesakrah.

The way Qadir, Hirwani, Ahmed and Chanderaesakrah are played by the West Indies offers little weight that SK Warne will "bamboozle" them. Especially when SK Warne did not "bamboozle" subsequent weaker West Indian teams - who even got him dropped at one point in time when Australia was "super powerful".

 

[JJ]

:lol: yep, twizzle is not being the sharpest tool in the shed - but will have some half arsed, half witted deflecting response - the media did make some BS about the Windies having a weakness against spin, but it was bullshit

Bob Holland still gives the great West Indians nightmares, eh twizz? :lol: :crazy:

 

[ANTiLAG]

:lol: yep, twizzle is not being the sharpest tool in the shed - but will have some half arsed, half witted deflecting response - the media did make some BS about the Windies having a weakness against spin, but it was bullshit

Bob Holland still gives the great West Indians nightmares, eh twizz? :lol: :crazy:

Embury and Edmonds gave them nightmares?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63425.html

Its funny how people forget India used to play a quartet of spinners. WSC caused West Indies more problems than spinners could.

 

[Twizzle]

Yeah, and who's the Greenwich fella you refer to, I remember Greenidge and Haynes, Gomes, Richards, Kallicharan, Rowe etc - but Greenwich doesn't ring a bell - dasher was he? Poor against spin, I expect :roll:

gee that's a compelling argument

so you still want to argue that black is white ?

We nearly beat them on their previous tour with one crappy spinner at the SCG, may have been Mo. We knew the only chance we had to win a single test was to prepare a turner at the SCG and name 2 spinners, which we did and it worked, we won.

Now, apparently you want to argue that this didn't happen ?

Well it did and they got spun out

Have a nice day.

 

[JJ]

1 nearly win, and one win :lol:

No cherry picking there to construct an 'argument'

 

[ANTiLAG]

Why do I keep quoting stats ?

lol, you must be new here

Hi, I'm the Alpha Male

Well this is how Twizzle sees himself:

[youtube]TxlrEt-OhBQ[/youtube]

gee that's a compelling argument

so you still want to argue that black is white ?

We nearly beat them on their previous tour with one crappy spinner at the SCG, may have been Mo. We knew the only chance we had to win a single test was to prepare a turner at the SCG and name 2 spinners, which we did and it worked, we won.

Now, apparently you want to argue that this didn't happen ?

Well it did and they got spun out

Have a nice day.

If only India and Pakistan had tried Erapalli Prasanna, Srinivas Venkataraghavan (both off spinners), Bhagwat Chandrasekhar (a leg spinner), and Bishen Singh Bedi (a left-arm spinner), Narendra Hirwani, Iqbal Qasim, Abdul Qadir, Mushtaq Ahmed. Hey Hirwani got 16 wickets against them once, before they crushed him in the next three matches.

Maybe apart from a WSC depleted side where Gomes and Kallicharan still made runs, the West Indies may have been beaten.

But his false bare assertions, and hasty conclusions and cherry picking make him sound more like this guy:

[youtube]tHGjT6ts-eQ[/youtube]

Yes, all Yale graduates become president. And the great West Indian teams had problems with spin on the basis of the 1 loss at the SCG. Clive LLoyd, Viv Richards, Desmond Haynes, Richie Richardson, Gordon Greenidge, Alvin Kallicharan - These batsmen would be bunnies to spin bowlers to the point of losing series after series.