A Question of Balance

[Frank Facer]

Carlton agree with most except
1. Lawrie is young and will get better and a good prop in a couple of years and is a keeper
2. Dufty. People have short memories. Remember Tedesco in his early years, injury prone..too light etc but fast. Then after a couple of years he became a great cover defender legs tackler but still injuey prone then built up. Roosters picked him up the year after just about when he was reaching his potential. Look at him now. Now Dufty is a bit older than Teddy in comparison but I am just looking at 1st grade time here. He might not get there but needs bit more time and coaching likely something as we all agree we lack. Look at Slater..another one out of the box aided by a great side and coach in his younger years.
Dufty only needs work on the defensive side of the game primarily which I have seen slight improvement in contact lately. Taking the ball back from a set start from the back stronger will come with bit more time, confidence etc.
As I said he might not make it and has probably limited time (next year or 2 to keep improving) but everyone is writing him off too early IMO..same as Lawrie. People like the media expect people with potential to realise it immediately when get to 1st grade.

I don't rate Lawrie. He is too small for a prop in first grade. He is one dimensional and is ineffective. If he could play like he did in the last 2 games of last year, he would make it.

I am a Dufty fan and would like to see him make it. He can be brilliant at times, but he is often basically playing touch footy. I now see Lomax as our long term fullback, unless someone else exceptional comes along.

 

[BBTB]

Old timer you have covered it well , no matter how hard we the supporters try to figure out this mess the team is in , nothing will change until outside influence happens ...... All coaches within need to be cleaned out , the once Mighty St George is just a shadow of the team it once was ..... We are wasting years if we think a Premiership is happening under our current so called coach .......

Couldn't agree more
Get rid of Caig Young,
First and foremost,
Followed by his non credentialed son, Mary of course,
Another non credentialed imposter
Ben Hornby.
Our Coaching staff, and recruitment staff,
All must "GO".
It's a waste of time if
we let these NOHOPERS get their
Brainless hands on our upcoming jrs.
And highly paid acquisition.

 

[SnowDragon]

Nice evaluation.

Good pros and cons as you see it, and I don’t differ too much in my thoughts.

I’m happy with the halves. Outside backs feel a mess, only Lomax is absolutely a must to keep. Lafai and Aitken aren’t in form, and presumably suck most the outside back funds, the rest are rather inexperienced, and we need to make the hard decisions at some time. That said, it could all work for me Dufty is the real question, to me he is running out of time, he better crack it in the next 12months or so or he is off to super league.

Forwards are a little short of being a force. Injuries and JDB out means we are a player or two short at times, and the use of the bench feels like it isn’t helping. The younger guys are slower in coming on due to reliance on Lats, and use of bench. Not far off dominating I reckon.

And there seems to be talent coming thru, so I remain optimistic.

I really want to make sure we focus on some long term special players. Lomax and Saab leading the way on that, Ford could be another that excites me, and Robson if he isn’t lost yet...

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Old timer you have covered it well , no matter how hard we the supporters try to figure out this mess the team is in , nothing will change until outside influence happens ...... All coaches within need to be cleaned out , the once Mighty St George is just a shadow of the team it once was ..... We are wasting years if we think a Premiership is happening under our current so called coach .......

In a nutshell Hazz

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

I agree with OT and his evaluation of our current plight for want of a better word....but theres one easy fix to all this and its not re arranging the deck chairs on the sub...its called a broom...they come in all shapes and sizes and are cheap and readily available at Bunnings..my suggestion is get the biggest one on offer that will fit through the boardroom doors

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Nice evaluation.

Good pros and cons as you see it, and I don’t differ too much in my thoughts.

I’m happy with the halves. Outside backs feel a mess, only Lomax is absolutely a must to keep. Lafai and Aitken aren’t in form, and presumably suck most the outside back funds, the rest are rather inexperienced, and we need to make the hard decisions at some time. That said, it could all work for me Dufty is the real question, to me he is running out of time, he better crack it in the next 12months or so or he is off to super league.

Forwards are a little short of being a force. Injuries and JDB out means we are a player or two short at times, and the use of the bench feels like it isn’t helping. The younger guys are slower in coming on due to reliance on Lats, and use of bench. Not far off dominating I reckon.

And there seems to be talent coming thru, so I remain optimistic.

I really want to make sure we focus on some long term special players. Lomax and Saab leading the way on that, Ford could be another that excites me, and Robson if he isn’t lost yet...

Dufty has played over 30 FG games.
Have you seen any improvement in his overall game?
I think he has been given plenty of opportunity to evolve and improve.
He had the FG spot at his mercy but can't seem to find that step up in class.
I don't think he is the long term answer for St. George.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I agree with OT and his evaluation of our current plight for want of a better word....but theres one easy fix to all this and its not re arranging the deck chairs on the sub...its called a broom...they come in all shapes and sizes and are cheap and readily available at Bunnings..my suggestion is get the biggest one on offer that will fit through the boardroom doors

The issue here is who will be the one doing the sweeping?

Noone is going to pick up that broom as they have firmly secured their positions, no matter the on-field results. Jobs for the boys, mates, bleeds red and white etc.

 

[avocado]

Sadly I feel our current setup (board, coach, roster, club mentality etc) will have us in the doldrums for years to come.

We could have had a better coach. Could have had more youth blooded. Could have recruited better. Hell I thought WIN would change all of this.
Sad what we have become. And I can’t see a silver lining.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Sadly I feel our current setup (board, coach, roster, club mentality etc) will have us in the doldrums for years to come.

We could have had a better coach. Could have had more youth blooded. Could have recruited better. Hell I thought WIN would change all of this.
Sad what we have become. And I can’t see a silver lining.

The choice of WIN as the new owner is part of the problem.
There were better financial offers on the table that were ignored.
WIN will stand behind the Illawarra faction no matter what which is just the opposite of what we need.

 

[RedV Resurgence]

Well put OT.

On the subject of pathways, we let Sele go, he wanted to stay but we told him he was not wanted. So, who did the club have as the backup Lock?

This year we've had Luc and Lawrie in that spot and neither are locks.

Further, we still have two spots left to fill and I doubt we will pickup a better player than Sele.

 

[Old Timer]

Back to the subject matter
Lots of good commentary being offered up.
To get the balance right for our team we need to decide who we really want to keep and the work out who we really want to get rid of and then start building. The following opinion os based on if we can cancel contracts at season end.

Absolute keepers for me
Vuaghan / Lawrie (is a prop and will get better but will be no frills)
Mc Innes / Robson
T Sims / Host / Ford (deserves to get his chance)
JDB / Frizz (maybe into prop)
Hunt
Norman
Z Lomax
Saab
Pearson (brought as a depth player and is good enough for that on 1st appearances and maybe is 1st grade quality)

Probably keepers but jury is still out but we need to find out quickly
Kerr
Blacker
KTimm
Leilua (as a prop)
K Sims (not going as good as her did at Broncos but injury and coach are issue for him)
Ravalawa (can he run fast or not & could he be a centre?)
Masters (has had potential for years but seems to lack commitment & direction can we get the best out of him)

Just too hard to tell as our game plan, squad & coach creates so many grey areas but in a harsh world probably exit them.
Dufty (Could be a keeper but the balance of the side will determine that i.e great centres and wingers which we of course lack)
Field (a faster version of Mann with no real position identifies as his)

Definitely gone
Graham
Pereira
Aitken
Lafai
Latimore
Allgood
Nicholls
Sailor

Some others may have far better understanding of what we have coming through as development players and I would appreciate some thoughts as to who and why.

 

[Old Timer]

I agree with OT and his evaluation of our current plight for want of a better word....but theres one easy fix to all this and its not re arranging the deck chairs on the sub...its called a broom...they come in all shapes and sizes and are cheap and readily available at Bunnings..my suggestion is get the biggest one on offer that will fit through the boardroom doors

Get a leaf blower whilst you are at it as it will get rid of the lightweights at our club very easily.

 

[BLM01]

I don't rate Lawrie. He is too small for a prop in first grade. He is one dimensional and is ineffective. If he could play like he did in the last 2 games of last year, he would make it.

I am a Dufty fan and would like to see him make it. He can be brilliant at times, but he is often basically playing touch footy. I now see Lomax as our long term fullback, unless someone else exceptional comes along.

Sorry FF....as I said before disgaree with both your thoughts there. Opinions vary I suppose

 

[BLM01]

Tedesco is 26, Dufty is 23, in 2016 at 23 Tedesco played origin.

I am not a Tedesco fan but he is streets ahead of Dufty in ability and development at the same age.

Agree but my point is not age, how long was Tedesco in 1st grade before 2016. I think he debuted in 2012? Not everyone matures at the same age even in league.
And it is at that time I should remind Possm..when Bennett was coaching our pathways tried to sign Teddy but missed out to the Tigs...ahhh would could of been. Then again the Roosters would of snapped him up when our brilliant coaching staff of Price & Co coached him in 1st grade to greater heights.

 

[possm]

Couldn't agree more
Get rid of Caig Young,
First and foremost,
Followed by his non credentialed son, Mary of course,
Another non credentialed imposter
Ben Hornby.
Our Coaching staff, and recruitment staff,
All must "GO".
It's a waste of time if
we let these NOHOPERS get their
Brainless hands on our upcoming jrs.
And highly paid acquisition.

Add Brian Johnston and Millward to those above.
Whey Doust is the CEO of St George Leagues Club, I really can't see the value. He ran the Taj into the ground over the past umpteen years.
I'd also like the St George Leagues Club Full Members given a vote each year on their representatives on the SGI Board and the St George Leagues Club Board.

 

[SnowDragon]

Back to the subject matter
Lots of good commentary being offered up.
To get the balance right for our team we need to decide who we really want to keep and the work out who we really want to get rid of and then start building. The following opinion os based on if we can cancel contracts at season end.

Absolute keepers for me
Vuaghan / Lawrie (is a prop and will get better but will be no frills)
Mc Innes / Robson
T Sims / Host / Ford (deserves to get his chance)
JDB / Frizz (maybe into prop)
Hunt
Norman
Z Lomax
Saab
Pearson (brought as a depth player and is good enough for that on 1st appearances and maybe is 1st grade quality)

Probably keepers but jury is still out but we need to find out quickly
Kerr
Blacker
KTimm
Leilua (as a prop)
K Sims (not going as good as her did at Broncos but injury and coach are issue for him)
Ravalawa (can he run fast or not & could he be a centre?)
Masters (has had potential for years but seems to lack commitment & direction can we get the best out of him)

Just too hard to tell as our game plan, squad & coach creates so many grey areas but in a harsh world probably exit them.
Dufty (Could be a keeper but the balance of the side will determine that i.e great centres and wingers which we of course lack)
Field (a faster version of Mann with no real position identifies as his)

Definitely gone
Graham
Pereira
Aitken
Lafai
Latimore
Allgood
Nicholls
Sailor

Some others may have far better understanding of what we have coming through as development players and I would appreciate some thoughts as to who and why.

Respect your view, BUT (IMHO)
Korbin is a keeper for sure
Periera is a keeper. If we have better options he can play CC, but solid hard worker and
Graham if he wants another year is a keeper. Worst case he is in CC, but likely just replacement for prop.

Lafai depends on cost, and what replacements we can get.

 

[Dragonslayer]

To understand this, firstly we need to look who is off contract at the end of this year, because having a player under contract "gone" is a little naïve as to the resultant salar5y cap impact and its effect on signing of players, including juniors and of retaining players.

So, players off contract this year include:
Allgood - would not re-sign
Field - I think he will move on by his own accord, there is no opportunity at the Dragons long term. If keen to stay then I would re-sign
Kerr - has had 3 years now to show something, so I wouldn't re-sign.
Latimore - would not re-sign
Maranta - would not re-sign
Nichols - would probably give him another year as captain of the CC team but I would be happy not re-sign
Robson - by all accounts has signed with the Cows
Sailor - would not re-sign
Timm - has a club option to add another year and I would enforce that.

So, that is 6 players that we would need to replace and 2 more in the 50/50 bucket.
We then have the JDB issue to deal with, so again we would need to apply for compensation.

So reality 7 players to definitely replace. This is 3 forwards, 2 backs and 1 hooker/utility forward.

All other players in our current top 30 are under contract and we would have to pay their freight if we "let them go" which would financially be disastrous. Only Graham maybe the only one who may retire, but he has another year to run so that is his call.

Of our current crop of DS players, we should be looking to advance:
Saab - yes, as 1 of the backs
Ford - yes, as an edge forward option if we look to move Friz to lock to cover JDB
H. Lomax - no, and if he wants to play he can look to getting a part-time contract
Lovodua - Yes, as a utility option, can play hooker and n the forwards
Blacker - needs another year as a DS player
Masters - not sure probably yes as a backup centre.

That's 4 of the 7, it just depands on who (a) we recruit to fill the other 3 positions and (b) who we promote from JF (or other comps) to join the DS (4 spots).

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your point of view, our balancing act with continue for a few years yet, unless there is a drastic turn around in our coaching fortunes. As I stated before this is where our unbalance comes from. Coaches like Bellamy and even Bennett (even though they lost today, just) can get average players to play as good players and have no fear in promoting juniors if their form warrants it.
We roll out the "old guard" each and every week, week after week.

 

[possm]

Respect your view, BUT (IMHO)
Korbin is a keeper for sure
Periera is a keeper. If we have better options he can play CC, but solid hard worker and
Graham if he wants another year is a keeper. Worst case he is in CC, but likely just replacement for prop.

Lafai depends on cost, and what replacements we can get.

Graham will soak up a big chunk of salary cap. I think you should play his next two years in ESL before retiring.

We do need one or two speedy first grade centres who are also good defenders.

Before June 30, it would be nice if we picked up RCG and at least one really good centre.