A solution for Withers next season?

[mongoose]

And that is why we struggled this year dude. Our key positions contained rookies and a guy who makes basic errors from where it all starts: dummyhalf.

and apparently thats the coach and managements fault. They should have had our rookies playing like 10 year veterans.

 

[Bay56]

and apparently thats the coach and managements fault. They should have had our rookies playing like 10 year veterans.

Wrong dude ... they should have planned for that not to be the case.

We've had years when we've had too many 'hangers on" for want of a better term or short term fixes of the like of J.Smith & M.Adamson ... we've had a year now with too many rookies. You dont win competitions with a roster full of rookies but you can damn well riun their confidence and further development in the process.

So yes, management is to blame for not getting the right mix of personnal.

I'll ask of you mongoose that when we win the premiership, or finish regularly in the top half of the table, will management get recognition? ... by your standards they should not, by mine they should.

 

[matt]

great post bay. as per usual,

its hard to get people to realise the smell starts at the top , hey.

 

[Whitty]

Heres the solution - f**k Withers and Hinchcliffe off and sign the oompa loompa for peanuts http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22552984-952,00.html

 

[dubby]

Wrong dude ... they should have planned for that not to be the case.

We've had years when we've had too many 'hangers on" for want of a better term or short term fixes of the like of J.Smith & M.Adamson ... we've had a year now with too many rookies. You dont win competitions with a roster full of rookies but you can damn well riun their confidence and further development in the process.

So yes, management is to blame for not getting the right mix of personnal.

I'll ask of you mongoose that when we win the premiership, or finish regularly in the top half of the table, will management get recognition? ... by your standards they should not, by mine they should.

Have a look around bay.

Look at every club that has won the GF over the past few years. They have ALL gone backwards.

2001: Newcastle: were woodspooners 4 years later and have a very new roster ATM
2002: Roosters: had a successful period but have had 2 very lean years recently.
2003: Panthers: Woodenspooners this year with a "supercoach" and a talented roster
2004: Bulldogs: Dogs are always competitive but should they have won more? Lets ignore their cheating
2005: Wests Tigers: Havent made the semis since
2006: Broncos: Hit by injury but IMO would not have won it. Have lost a bulk of their 2006 team with Tate, Berrigan, Petero all leaving.


Bay/matt take it all in.

Every club struggles to keep all its players and finds it hard to get back on top. ANd you continue to blame management even tho they are NOT the only ones in the same situation?

Face it, players do NOT want to come to Canberra. IT was PROVEN in this years RLW as the club they would least like to join!

But that is managments fault right? Not throwing enough $$ at players like Whatuira or Nate Myles right?

Just what is your solution guys? I hear plenty of bitching BUT NOT ONE ANSWER IS GIVEN!

PUT UP OR SHUT UP! :x

 

[matt]

takes the bait.

dubby i would just prefer to hear never say never when it comes to player signings.

i feel they dont try hard enough.

you feel they do.

please stop beating up on me .:lol:

it comes down to selling the club in a positive frame of mind that will make it attractive to the big boys.

if you where trying to poach me with the whoa is the world approach , youd have buckleys. in saying that i may come for overs if

you couldnt guarantee me that the club would help me see rep duties and exposure.

i would love it too if we could take on the world with our juniors only. i just reckon its to big an ask for these guys. fmd they would

be mentally farked by the time they are 24. i would like to see 1 real biggie and 2 biggie type to guide them thru the forest.

dude im not saying it cant be swung around it can and lets hope so.

 

[dubby]

takes the bait.

dubby i would just prefer to hear never say never when it comes to player signings.

i feel they dont try hard enough.

you feel they do.

please stop beating up on me .:lol:

it comes down to selling the club in a positive frame of mind that will make it attractive to the big boys.

if you where trying to poach me with the whoa is the world approach , youd have buckleys. in saying that i may come for overs if

you couldnt guarantee me that the club would help me see rep duties and exposure.

i would love it too if we could take on the world with our juniors only. i just reckon its to big an ask for these guys. fmd they would

be mentally farked by the time they are 24. i would like to see 1 real biggie and 2 biggie type to guide them thru the forest.

They do not try the woe is me approach. Come on matt, they are not stupid. :?

And if I could NOT guarentee you a chance at being noticed for rep footy you would still come? :shock: That may work if you are Daniel Fitzhenry or Todd Byrne, but if you were Jacob Lillyman or Justin Hodges it may make a difference.

Once again you have not given me an answer.

Once again you just want to stir things up.

You have reinforced my opinion of you: Sh#t stirrer.


dude im not saying it cant be swung around it can and lets hope so

 

[matt]

and you love me now give us a kiss.:lol:

if the money compensated for it i would.(too which i think we have too many in that case)

im only a concerned fan dubby. dont get all snitzy with me.

i value your answers to my questions.

you should know the benefits of stirring things up. when things seem to have settled on the bottom.

peace out dubster.

ps. please do try to stop the nego talk about our fine establishment not being able to attract players through the media and
start getting some pride back in the joint . re-invent , pound doors to sell the product.

 

[Bay56]

Have a look around bay.

Look at every club that has won the GF over the past few years. They have ALL gone backwards.

2001: Newcastle: were woodspooners 4 years later and have a very new roster ATM
2002: Roosters: had a successful period but have had 2 very lean years recently.
2003: Panthers: Woodenspooners this year with a "supercoach" and a talented roster
2004: Bulldogs: Dogs are always competitive but should they have won more? Lets ignore their cheating
2005: Wests Tigers: Havent made the semis since
2006: Broncos: Hit by injury but IMO would not have won it. Have lost a bulk of their 2006 team with Tate, Berrigan, Petero all leaving.


Bay/matt take it all in.

Every club struggles to keep all its players and finds it hard to get back on top. ANd you continue to blame management even tho they are NOT the only ones in the same situation?

Face it, players do NOT want to come to Canberra. IT was PROVEN in this years RLW as the club they would least like to join!

But that is managments fault right? Not throwing enough $$ at players like Whatuira or Nate Myles right?

Just what is your solution guys? I hear plenty of bitching BUT NOT ONE ANSWER IS GIVEN!

PUT UP OR SHUT UP! :x

Dude when it comes to comparisions with other clubs I prefer to take the approach of comparing us with the Storm rather than the panthers/tigers/roosters of this world.

The fact is dubster we pay Howell a reported $200K ... please explain why we are not paying him $50K and adding a decent wage plus that $150K to enticing a player of the likes of Thruston tho the club.

I'v given you a number of solutions, the fact is you have chosen to ignore them. And the fact is that I'm not paid to make those sorts of decisions ... management are and if they were held accountable for their decsions in recent years they would have been given the boot due to the lack of sucess this club has endured for over a decade. The fact is they are not held accountable and therefore there is not a lot of pressure on them to perform.

SO THERE DUBSTER, I'VE PUT UP ... SO NOW YOU SHUTUP

 

[Chachi]

Firstly, Elliott payed big bucks for Howell and Henry has now told him to piss off - why use Howell as an example of where the club is heading? It actually disproves your theory.

I look at the table and see Melbourne and Townsville in the top 3 which tells me "marquee" recruiting is not necessarily the answer to our problems. If memory serves the only "big" name Melbourne have recruited recently is Mick Crocker and Townsville managed to jag Thurston from the dogs reserve grade. Point taken we should have had Thurston, but thank Elliott for that one too in going for Jason Smith instead.

I think dumping Premier League and sweeping out surplus players (Howell, Raston, Williams, Rothery and Bickerstaff) is a good start. To be honest there was nobody really on the market this year who would have provided good value for money in the "marquee" stakes. O'Meley and Petro were high risk due to their age, Kite would not exactly have attracted bigger crowds or improved us a great deal and even King got offered ridiculous money from the ESL (and he's a grub anyway). Most of the other biggies off contract stayed put. Probably the only "big" target we could have gone harder for was M. Monas, and a $2m deal would have been bloody hard to beat.

Next year will be massive for us as far as recruitment and retention goes. Carney and Tongue are the two priorities no doubt. Weyman, Dobson, Milne, Goodwin, Campo and Purtell are all mid-rangers who will be playing for their futures. Logan, Best and Turner are coming to the end of their careers and then there's a stack of fringe FG'ers like Jones, Thurling, Kelly, Cross and Chalk who could go either way. Howell is definitely gone.

Blind freddy can see Henry and our management team are trying to rebuild this club using quality over quantity. 2007 was a chance for the coach to see what's cards he has in his hand and 2008 may just be the year to start the big plays - but it's not going to happen overnight. We've certainly put together an outstanding U20's squad and hopefully this brings us some nice surprises too.

Bay56 how can you whinge about cutting a guy like Rothery and in the same breath complain we have no money to attract the big names? ;-)

 

[Bay56]

Firstly, Elliott payed big bucks for Howell and Henry has now told him to piss off - why use Howell as an example of where the club is heading? It actually disproves your theory.

I look at the table and see Melbourne and Townsville in the top 3 which tells me "marquee" recruiting is not necessarily the answer to our problems. If memory serves the only "big" name Melbourne have recruited recently is Mick Crocker and Townsville managed to jag Thurston from the dogs reserve grade. Point taken we should have had Thurston, but thank Elliott for that one too in going for Jason Smith instead.

I think dumping Premier League and sweeping out surplus players (Howell, Raston, Williams, Rothery and Bickerstaff) is a good start. To be honest there was nobody really on the market this year who would have provided good value for money in the "marquee" stakes. O'Meley and Petro were high risk due to their age, Kite would not exactly have attracted bigger crowds or improved us a great deal and even King got offered ridiculous money from the ESL (and he's a grub anyway). Most of the other biggies off contract stayed put. Probably the only "big" target we could have gone harder for was M. Monas, and a $2m deal would have been bloody hard to beat.

Next year will be massive for us as far as recruitment and retention goes. Carney and Tongue are the two priorities no doubt. Weyman, Dobson, Milne, Goodwin, Campo and Purtell are all mid-rangers who will be playing for their futures. Logan, Best and Turner are coming to the end of their careers and then there's a stack of fringe FG'ers like Jones, Thurling, Kelly, Cross and Chalk who could go either way. Howell is definitely gone.

Blind freddy can see Henry and our management team are trying to rebuild this club using quality over quantity. 2007 was a chance for the coach to see what's cards he has in his hand and 2008 may just be the year to start the big plays - but it's not going to happen overnight. We've certainly put together an outstanding U20's squad and hopefully this brings us some nice surprises too.

Bay56 how can you whinge about cutting a guy like Rothery and in the same breath complain we have no money to attract the big names? ;-)

Firstly Chachi management make and are responsible for the decisions for the future of this club, not a departing coach who is in some way related to the player in question.

Secondly what works for one club may not necessarily work for another. There is an opinion held that it is difficult for the Raiders to attract a decent player ... imo every player can be bought with money and it is not as though Canberra is a backwater swamp that no one would ever step foot in, quite the opposite in fact ... therefore pay overs and we'll get our man ... simple.

Thirdly if blind freddy gets his sight back I'm sure we'll be once more be a successful club ... when that happens, and only then, I will applaud management for a job well done .. until then I'll bag the living sh*t out of them in an effort to place sufficient pressure on them and make them accountable for their actions ... you can chose to do what you want.

And lastly I consider Rothery to be the type of 2nd tier player necessary to give you sufficent depth ... therefore you may call it "whingeing' but I call in constructive criticisim.

 

[Chachi]

Firstly Chachi management make and are responsible for the decision for the future of this club, not a departing coach who is in some way related to the player in question.

Secondly what works for one club may not necessarily work for another. There is an opinion held that it is difficult for the Raiders to attract a decent player ... imo every player can be bought with money and it is not as though Canberra is a backwater swamp that no one would ever step foot in, quite the opposite in fact ... therefore pay overs and we'll get our man ... simple.

Thirdly if blind freddy gets his sight back I'm sure we'll be once more be a successful club ... when that happens, and only then, I will applaud management for a job well done .. until then I'll bag the living sh*t out of them in an effort to place sufficient pressure on them and make them accountable for their actions ... you can chose to do what you want.

And lastly I consider Rothery to be the type of 2nd tier player necessary to give you sufficent depth ... therefore you may call it "whingeing' but I call in constructive criticisim.

So you would expect management to totally disregard the wishes of the coach when making recruiting/retention decisions? Do you understand that Henry - quite possibly in conjunction with managment - has chosen to move this club in a different direction from which Elliott was taking it and in so doing has decided to release a player which I thought you would be happy to see go? Do you, or do you not want David Howell to go? Are you stuck in 2005?

Secondly I think you'll find that non-Sydney based clubs excluding Brisbane, Gold Coast and Newcastle find it hard to sign "marquee" players. Townsville, NZ, Melbourne, Penrith and Canberra are all in a similar situation in regards to recruiting and following a successful model such as Melbourne is not necessarily a dumb move. Some may actually call it smart.

Thirdly, only time will tell, but some people can see change is actually happening. I for one am happy to give it a go in the absence of the Tardis in which I could travel to the future and determine which 10 year olds we could sign who are going to go on and represent Australia.

Lastly I'll give you a club full of 2nd tier players like Elliott gave us and I'll guarantee you a bottom dwelling finish year after year after year.

 

[dubby]

Firstly, Elliott payed big bucks for Howell and Henry has now told him to piss off - why use Howell as an example of where the club is heading? It actually disproves your theory.

[

Blind freddy can see Henry and our management team are trying to rebuild this club using quality over quantity. 2007 was a chance for the coach to see what's cards he has in his hand and 2008 may just be the year to start the big plays - but it's not going to happen overnight. We've certainly put together an outstanding U20's squad and hopefully this brings us some nice surprises too.

THat confirms your point re: Howell and the likes of Raston, Rothery. But, like I say Blind Freddy in these forums ignores those facts because we havent signed Inglis or JT.

Firstly Chachi management make and are responsible for the decision for the future of this club, not a departing coach who is in some way related to the player in question

Please Bay. At Howells re-signing Elliot was still our coach with no intention of going anywhere. I can admit, it was a bad move by management to pay him $200k (if thats his wage)

Secondly what works for one club may not necessarily work for another. There is an opinion held that it is difficult for the Raiders to attract a decent player ... imo every player can be bought with money and it is not as though Canberra is a backwater swamp that no one would ever step foot in, quite the opposite in fact ... therefore pay overs and we'll get our man ... simple.

EXACTLY! No one says Canberra is a swamp, but for reasons I have explained to you already, it is HARDER to get someone to come here, not impossible. We do offer good money, but believe it or not that is not always the answer. Besides, how can we match what M Monas or PW is getting in the ESL?

For every dollar extra we spend, we decrease our depth. Depth is already slim and if Joe Superstar gets hurt, I bet you blame the club or coaching staff.

And lastly I consider Rothery to be the type of 2nd tier player necessary to give you sufficent depth ... therefore you may call it "whingeing' but I call in constructive criticisim.

Rothery is a Kahler type of nuffy who is never going to add anything to this team. Thats my share of constuctive critisism.

I'v given you a number of solutions, the fact is you have chosen to ignore them. And the fact is that I'm not paid to make those sorts of decisions ... management are and if they were held accountable for their decsions in recent years they would have been given the boot due to the lack of sucess this club has endured for over a decade. The fact is they are not held accountable and therefore there is not a lot of pressure on them to perform.

SO THERE DUBSTER, I'VE PUT UP ... SO NOW YOU SHUTUP

Please offer an example of your answers. I hope its not the "pay overs" and "sell the product" scheme. Fair dinkum, we're not Amway

 

[Bay56]

Thirdly, only time will tell, but some people can see change is actually happening. I for one am happy to give it a go in the absence of the Tardis in which I could travel to the future and determine which 10 year olds are going to go on and represent Australia.

Chachi I've been told of 'change actually happening' for some eyars now. If you like I'll post the open letter from our new coach Matt Elliott from 2001 which gaves us a clear outline of his direction and the success that wuld invariably follow.

As I said Chachi when it happens I'll be there thanking and shaking the CEO's hand .. until then it is business as usual for this long suffering supporter.

 

[(KW)]

I think you all need to take a deep breath, relax, and agree to meet up over a cold one before our first game next year to discuss.

I can guarantee you that management don't just sit on their hands and put player recruitment in the too hard basket. They are increasingly looking outside the square, and obviously in consultation with the coach, being very selective regarding which players they target.

They have done a lot of work with the local government and the current "Live in Canberra" campaign which has been beneficial for both organisations.

KW

 

[Bay56]

KW when all that translates into success on the footy field I'll get off their back.

 

[(KW)]

KW when all that translates into success on the footy field I'll get off their back.

Well you can give me those happy pills back around June next year then, as you won't require them anymore.

KW

 

[Chachi]

Chachi I've been told of 'change actually happening' for some eyars now. If you like I'll post the open letter from our new coach Matt Elliott from 2001 which gaves us a clear outline of his direction and the success that wuld invariably follow.

As I said Chachi when it happens I'll be there thanking and shaking the CEO's hand .. until then it is business as usual for this long suffering supporter.

Yep, and the Elliott plan featuring the likes of Tyran Smith plus Matt Adamson minus Mick Monaghan generally proved to be a disaster. Thankfully Neil Henry is not Matt Elliott and that plan is totally irrelevant now. I also fully expect management to support the coach in trying to get what he wants, whether he be Matt Elliott, Tim Sheens, Neil Henry or Clive Churchill.

Dude, I'm more than happy to criticize management when it's due. I've written to them a few times regarding their wonderful relocation to the coast proposal and their public complaints about how hard it is to attract people here. I'm 100% with you on that one and you know that.

I know you've still got the sh*ts with management when it comes to the Carney thing and that's your own choice. Some other clubs would have sacked him by now and others would have made gold statues of him. We're somewhere in between and he's still here and part of our future plans - now it's up to him.

As KW and dubby have stated, positive things are happening and I think credit should be given when it's due.

 

[matt]

congrats peoples all involved . that my freinds was an enjoyable way to kill 5 hours of
work time. enjoyable read.:lol:

 

[Bay56]

Well you can give me those happy pills back around June next year then, as you won't require them anymore.

KW

:lol: :lol: