A win for the fans: Dragons knock back a motza

[El Diablo]

RABK you can stick your argument to this thread instead of hijacking http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=117462

 

[RABK]

:roll:

 

[Dakink]

As a Dragons supporter Im glad they stayed at Kogorah were we wil get a massive home ground advantage rather than move it to a larger stadium were more Parra supporterscan get in.

Having just been to Brisbane v Dragons at Suncorp the amount of Red and White was astonishing and would rather the 2 points and the development of our HOME grounds to a larger capacity for the future.

 

[Willow]

Season ticket holders get in for free so where's the issue?

No we don't, we pay for it advance.
Tickets are still available as we speak. If people want to go, you better get cracking.
If you miss out and wanted to go, then you weren't keen enough in the first place.

Most of the people whinging about it not being swiched probably were never going to go anyway.

If the game is to grow, then the neutrals like myslef would love to go and watch a game like this but wont bother because Kogarah is a hole of a ground and will be far too uncomfortable to watch a game of footy jammed in like a sardine.

Perhaps you should change your comfort levels, otherwise you'll never go to different venues.
Just because you want comfortable corporate facilities doesnt make you a bigger fan than those in the lower concourse or on the hill.

As for being 'jammed in like a sardine', I don't agree. A larger venue doesnt mean its more comfortable.

People go on about Suncorp Stadium, I was there on Sunday. It's massive and modern. But we were up in the western rafters... 50,000 people and it was real battle getting in, and an even bigger battle getting out. It was uncomfortable and imo, had nothing on the ease of access we get at Kogarah. The walk up back to the station wasn't fun either and lots of people with kids and the elderly were having difficulties.
But it was great day out and I wasn't complaining. You make what you can of the situation and we chose to enjoy it.

It's catering for Dragons fans only and whilst I can sort of understand the selfish attitude, I find the overall result highly disappointing.

You mean its a home ground with home ground advantages. Every time I hear an opposition supporter bag out on Kogarah, it reinforces my belief that its a great home ground.

Surely even the looniest fan can see the benefit of taking blockbusters to larger venues to attract more fans to the game?

Transistory fans are the ones we want to convert and will not turn up to Kogarah based on ground capacity, facilities (or lack thereof).

When was the last time you saw a game at Kogarah?
I'm beginning to think you need to be taken down there mate. lol.

There are upgrades happening at Kogarah and more are planned for the future. Compared to a couple of years ago, it's improved a fair bit. It's the only venue I know where its easy to get a beer and the queues are minimal. I hang out around 'Stoneys Slab' and its definitely one of the best places in the world to watch a game of football.

Again, catering to 40,000+ people doesnt make it more comfortable. In fact, the opposite is true.

This approach is exactly the reason why the game will be forever on the back foot. It's a superb opportunity to take a marquee game to the masses but the clubs in their finite 'wisdom' put it in the too hard basket.

Nope, they decided that they stood a better chance of winning and securing a top four spot if they play at home.
Plus they have local ground sponsors to look after (this I think is probably a reasonable factor in the final decision).

Saints would do well to take a leaf out of Brisbane's book when they moved their semi against the Cowboys last year.

I can't see the relevance. It didnt reach a greater ground capacity for a start. The TV audience would have been the same.
And I'm sure plenty of Broncos supporters were unhappy with that decision.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

As a Dragons supporter Im glad they stayed at Kogorah were we wil get a massive home ground advantage rather than move it to a larger stadium were more Parra supporterscan get in.

Dragons supporter also, but you've still got to cater for away fans too (even Parra fans). I've no doubt we'd fill Aussie Stadium, where our record is quite good - I don't think we'd suffer one bit. Bigger crowd, better atmosphere (other than the around the army - Kogarah is one of the quietest crowds on a Sunday arvo there is, sometimes its embarrassing). When the army gets to Aussie Stadium there's no fans that can compete.

Having just been to Brisbane v Dragons at Suncorp the amount of Red and White was astonishing and would rather the 2 points and the development of our HOME grounds to a larger capacity for the future.

The only thing they could do at Win would be demolish the sh!tty western grandstand and build a state of the art stand on the road, backing onto the leagues club. However with only 6-7 games a season at Win (excluding finals) the time to recoup the cost for an extra 2-3K fans a game would be a looooong one. Such a redevelopment is vital but I cant see it happening for ages. As for Kogarah - there's not much more that can be done.

As for "a win for the fans" - i doubt it. Its the peril of following a joint venture side with arguably the biggest following in Sydney and the 2 lowest capacity grounds in the comp. If it did get shifted I'd be 100% behind it - the more the merrier. I would feel for the members to a degree - but they could always head in into town. The best for the majority I'd say.

 

[brokendigit]

I would prefer if the game was moved as it would benefit the code.

I could understand the pre purchased ticket holders would be none to happy, along with Dragons fans giving up home advantage.

But something like this doesn't occur too often (two inform top of the table teams), so advantage should be taken.

Bigger Crowds
Take it to a big ground like Aussie, the ground would be near capacity with a good portion of Parra and neutral fans, which will be unlikely at Kogarah. (I'm also not too fond of games which have a massive one sided support)

New Supporters
The converted will fill up Kogarah (a good thing) but with such a big match at the bigger ground you might end up with a few new fans....long term bonus...especially kids at a big match.

Marketing
People across Australia/NZ will see a big stadium filled for a club game on TV (or listen via radio), which can only be a good thing. Including sponsors.

Makes it a bigger event
Just like the Anzac day match with the roosters and dragons who always come to play, the fact that the game is being put on an extra pedestal should have the teams even more fired up, hence a ripper of a game. Plus more people watching via TV and listening via Radio.


If they had some sought of rules on identifying a particular game, by Sunday night that can be earmarked to switch, and the old ground gets compensated....current ticket holders are taken care of......then why not.

Cheers

Damn work getting in the way of important stuff! ;-)

Bigger Crowds: No question - we'd get a considerably bigger crowd on Sunday at Aussie (or elsewhere). However, I love the partisan support of a one-eyed crowd... Gets the blood pumping!

New Supporters: Attracting new fans is absolutely critical to the success of the organisation. However, in the current circumstances (ie: the team is playing good footy, interest in the game overall is reaching record levels, & Red V Membership is increasing at an unprecedented rate) it is not as much of a priority as other challenges (ie: upgrading facilities). In other words: We're doing a fair job attracting 'first-time' RL supporters at the moment.

Marketing: I've got to say, from a Marketing point of view, a wide shot of the Kogarah Hill, packed to bursting point - a sea of Red V's, & the Dragon Army in full-cry: does it get much better for those with an interest in footy?

Makes it a bigger event: In terms of a crowd? Yes, no doubt. How about in terms of importance? In terms of consequence? How about in terms of importance to Average Joe, who may walk out of Jubilee, & remember 'that day at Kogarah' forever...

In my opinion, a decision to relocate the game to anywhere else would've been short-sighted & clear evidence of the club's desire to chase a 'quick-buck'.
We all want a world-class venue at Kogarah, capable of seating & catering for 25,000 people. But it just not going to happen by disregarding the people who have, & will continue to help make the club a success: financial members.

 

[legend]

I was at Koagarah last year for the Tigers v Dragons game and the year before for the Raiders v Dragons match so I know it pretty well from recent times and I stand by my belief it's one of the worst specatator grounds in the NRL.

The free tickets thing was saying there should be no extra charge for season ticket holders to get into the SFS i.e no more cost to the season ticket holder which I fully support as they are the ones who are financially supporting their club.

As for my comfort levels, having my view onscured by a telegraph pole on the try line is not my idea of comfort. I'm sure many (even Dragons fans) will agree with my reasoning here. Then again maybe not Dragons fans. Getting out of Kogarah is a nightamre and that's just through the gates.

The facilities are antiquated and I cringe at having to go there. Parking is a nightmare and for me, there are too many negatives that detract from the enjoyable part of the day (i.e the game) and the game itself becomes of less importance than getting out and having to sit in peak hour traffic.

It's an urban ground that served it's purpose in the 50's and 60's but in todays modern era, it's sub standard for the average fan and I would not take my family to watch a game there.

 

[littleduck]

St George Illawarra have denied 25,000 St George Illawarra supporters the opportunity to attend a bona fide blockbuster.

BAD NEWS for 25k Saints fans !!!!!!
(well in reality, 20k extra Saints fans and 5k Eels fans)

 

[Willow]

Legend, I don't want to go to the SFS, its a sh*t getting into the place and it only takes one breakdown on South Dowling Street and you're crawling out of there for an hour afterwards.

Saints fans found this out when we used to use the place as a 'home ground'.

As I said, bigger venues does not always mean extra comfort. Often the opposite is true.
But you make do with what you have. Right?

What I mean, is if you're looking for faults, you'll be forever finding them.

And bagging out on Kogarah because of its facilities doesn't wash with me. I'm not sure which part of the word 'upgrades' missed the mark in my earlier post.

Regarding the 'getting it to the people' argument, my guess is that this match will win its time slot on Channel 9 when it starts broadcasting at 4pm.
Most people who were tardy in buying their tickets will probably prefer sitting at home anyway.

Parking is not a problem if you do one of a few things:
1. Be a member of St George Leagues Club and arrive in good time to park at the Taj.
2. Get a train, Carlton station is just up the road.
3. Arrive early... like people often do at big events.

btw, we drove to Brisbane and then caught a train to Lang Park on Sunday, and it was still a 15 minute walk to the Stadium. It was a squeeze but as I said before, I'm not complaining.

Again, big doesn't mean better. Often the opposite is true.

And as for the dreaded 'telegraph pole', my suggestion is to not choose that spot again. lol

 

[milchcow]

I don't see it as being about comfort or a quick buck but about doing what's best for the large number of league fans that want to see this game.

There's a real possibility that this "sell-out" will have a crowd smaller than the average for the round., which is a real shame given its one of the most anticipated games of the year.

 

[Sun_Down]

Dragons made a good decesion imo.

 

[littleduck]

Legend, I don't want to go to the SFS, its a sh*t getting into the place and it only takes one breakdown on South Dowling Street and you're crawling out of there for an hour afterwards.

Saints fans found this out when we used to use the place as a 'home ground'.

As I said, bigger venues does not always mean extra comfort. Often the opposite is true.
But you make do with what you have. Right?

What I mean, is if you're looking for faults, you'll be forever finding them.

...

Regarding the 'getting it to the people' argument, my guess is that this match will win its time slot on Channel 9 when it starts broadcasting at 4pm.
Most people who were tardy in buying their tickets will probably prefer sitting at home anyway.

Parking is not a problem if you do one of a few things:
1. Be a member of St George Leagues Club and arrive in good time to park at the Taj.
2. Get a train, Carlton station is just up the road.
3. Arrive early... like people often do at big events.

They're all selfish reasons which you think are good enough to deny 25,000 people the ability to attend and experience the game as well.

And bagging out on Kogarah because of its facilities doesn't wash with me. I'm not sure which part of the word 'upgrades' missed the mark in my earlier post.

Mate, it's a straight venue capacity issue and the argument is about hosting blockbusters at the appropriate stadium based on the anticipated crowd.

 

[gottabegood]

Just a further thought,

I'm a chookies fan, but because I've lived close to Jubilee/OKI I've seen a hell of a lot more Dragons games. So I'm a neutral who would be interested to go to this game......but simply not fussed to arrange pre-ticketing....I just want to turn up if thats my decision on the day....why not. There is a lot of us in the same boat, with families and other commitements...who make the same game day decision.
With the Dragons doing so well, 17,000 capacity is simply a J.O.K.E...joke.

The Dragons who have being playing so well, have a ordinary average home crowd, bordering on the current NRL average. Why, because 17,000 is a joke. Are there any plans to upgrade the capacity??

And to those talking about the atmosphere of the Dragons army, well I believe its well down from my memories of the 70's and 80's, you guys are pretty damn quiet.....my Brother was making more noise than the lot of you guys....


Bit of a rant...apologies

 

[Willow]

They're all selfish reasons which you think are good enough to deny 25,000 people the ability to attend and experience the game as well.

Denying 25,000 people? Where'd did you get that figure from? Even if 40,000 people showed up it still wouldn't be another 25K.

Mate, it's a straight venue capacity issue and the argument is about hosting blockbusters at the appropriate stadium based on the anticipated crowd.

A straight venue capacity issue eh? Says who? I can assure there's more to it than that.

I refer again to Parramatta Stadium, a venue with a capacity of only 3,000 more than Kogarah.
It was a sellout in round 18 and lots of people were turned away.

Were Parramatta asked to switch venues?

Did Parramatta inform fans that it was sold out?

Work out your 'selfish' scenario from that.

Plenty of Parra supporters would love nothing more than to play this game at a neutral venue. Sorry, but it aint going to happen.

 

[gunnamatta bay]

Don't be fooled folks. A certain lobby group were never going to let this game out of their grasp. They only care about themselves.

 

[gunnamatta bay]

Minister I was almost moved to tears by your graphic description of the old women and children staggering through the oppressive Brisbane heat and dust in a vain effort to reach the railway station.

 

[drake]

If you don't like it, don't go.:LOL:

 

[gunnamatta bay]

Peter Doust and co have done the right thing by their club's premiership aspirations no doubt but no one really buys this 'a win for the fans' crap do they?

 

[The Tank]

Just a further thought,

I'm a chookies fan, but because I've lived close to Jubilee/OKI I've seen a hell of a lot more Dragons games. So I'm a neutral who would be interested to go to this game......but simply not fussed to arrange pre-ticketing....I just want to turn up if thats my decision on the day....why not. There is a lot of us in the same boat, with families and other commitements...who make the same game day decision.
With the Dragons doing so well, 17,000 capacity is simply a J.O.K.E...joke.

The Dragons who have being playing so well, have a ordinary average home crowd, bordering on the current NRL average. Why, because 17,000 is a joke. Are there any plans to upgrade the capacity??

And to those talking about the atmosphere of the Dragons army, well I believe its well down from my memories of the 70's and 80's, you guys are pretty damn quiet.....my Brother was making more noise than the lot of you guys....


Bit of a rant...apologies

I feel the same way. I hate both teams but was looking forward to watching some great footy.

Suppose it's great for Dragons fans, not so great for league in general.

 

[Lantana]

Bang on tank.

As for the 'bigger is not always better' comment Willow. If the Dragon's make the Grand Final maybe it should be moved to the Showground? Crap sight lines, round oval, sh*t facilities..... should make the Kogarah faithfull feel right at home. Problem here is you can jam more than 20 thousand in there. Oh, the extra 3 thousand or so can be for the neutral and other teams fans.

Get your head out of the sand mate. This crowd does not do this game justice.

Note: Isn't it great we are all bitching about not being able to get into a game as it is SOLD OUT 5 days early!!

Toyota Park here I come!!!!!