"American Rugby"?

[Rhode Island Rebellion]

I COULD NOT AGREE MORE. In my opinion, rugby league is the perfect sport. I am a born-and-bred Canadian and have been exposed to the Big Four (baseball, football, hockey and basketball) pro sports in North America, along with all the others - soccer, Aussie Rules, you name it. I have sat on executive boards for sports, I have coached, I have played, I have officiated and, for a time, I was even paid to write about all of them. Make no mistake - rugby league, with an injection of money, has the potential to overtake most if not all the major sports. A name change is not needed - the game sells itself.

Parra you couldnt be more right... The target audience is not ppl who are familar with rugby ... (low percentage) but people who never seen a game before... Thats how i get my crowds

Guys with fox soccer plus continuing to carry RL i think we should all (usarl) push to get the ratings up somehow.

Also fyi in the 70s and 80s when espn started. The NFL paid them Yes Paid them big bucks not to carry Rugby.

Also note on Cox3 and the cox cable network they carry rugby league every wed and friday night but for whatever reason it never shows up on the menu.

 

[Rampart66]

I will add one other thing.

There are a few tweaks that would help the sport in the U.S.

1. Play on the smaller football gridiron (keeping 13 a side). Many (if not all) of the AMNRL and USARL teams play on existing football fields and the quality of the sport hasn't suffered at all. Yes, you would be using yards instead of meters. If the sport becomes bigger, there are a lot of NFL and college football stadiums that sit quiet during the summer months.

2. Slightly alter the uniform. American football got the pants right and rugby league would do well to adopt something similar (without the pads). These pants would make it very difficult to grab and use for tackling. It also prevents seeing a player's bare ass during the game. Many league players wear the biker style shorts under their game shorts anyway.

3. Possibly tweak the terminology. Touchdown is the more correct term for a try and it makes more sense to a new American viewer. Also, terms like "out-of-bounds" should replace "in-touch" and "try line" & "touch line" with "goal line" and "side line". The main purpose is not to confuse new viewers and make them feel comfortable with the lingo.

4. Static Uniform Numbers. Fans need the ability to relate players and numbers. For a sport that has to promote star players, this is important. Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Michael Jordan and Larry Bird. You may know them as 99, 66, 12, 16, 23 and 33. Although other leagues swap numbers on players based on positions, it may be more important to to know the players instead.

5. No more than one sponsor on the jersey. You have to think of jerseys as potential merchandise and no one wants a shirt that's loaded with sponsors. Yes, I realize that sponsors are currently an important revenue source, but I'm looking in to the future when there are more and better revenue sources like ticket sales, merchandise and advertising.

 

[Kurt Angle]

I will add one other thing.

There are a few tweaks that would help the sport in the U.S.

1. Play on the smaller football gridiron (keeping 13 a side). Many (if not all) of the AMNRL and USARL teams play on existing football fields and the quality of the sport hasn't suffered at all. Yes, you would be using yards instead of meters. If the sport becomes bigger, there are a lot of NFL and college football stadiums that sit quiet during the summer months.

Are the fields scalable to upgrade to the proper size?

It may not matter to amateurs, but 100 metres compared to 100 yards is a big difference to professionals. The distance the defensive line had to stand from the ruck moved from 5 metres to 10 metres for a reason.

2. Slightly alter the uniform. American football got the pants right and rugby league would do well to adopt something similar (without the pads). These pants would make it very difficult to grab and use for tackling. It also prevents seeing a player's bare ass during the game. Many league players wear the biker style shorts under their game shorts anyway.

I don't think it's in the best interests of the game to make legs more slippry to tackle.

3. Possibly tweak the terminology. Touchdown is the more correct term for a try and it makes more sense to a new American viewer. Also, terms like "out-of-bounds" should replace "in-touch" and "try line" & "touch line" with "goal line" and "side line". The main purpose is not to confuse new viewers and make them feel comfortable with the lingo.

Can work easily within the U.S.

There are differences in position names between Australia and England.

Five-eighth <-> stand-off
Lock forward <-> Loose forward

Domestically they have no bearing what you call them.

4. Static Uniform Numbers. Fans need the ability to relate players and numbers. For a sport that has to promote star players, this is important. Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Michael Jordan and Larry Bird. You may know them as 99, 66, 12, 16, 23 and 33. Although other leagues swap numbers on players based on positions, it may be more important to to know the players instead.

This was implemented during the Super League break-away era. It didn't gain traction amongst Australian fans. There is something about 'earning' a spot.

When Jonathon Davies switched from Union, the first cultural difference he noticed, more pronounced in Australia albeit, was that their was fierce competition for each position. Reserve grade scrubs would not show him respect due to his name. He understood the increased intensity made for better players.

The fans know this, and there is something to be admired about 'earning' a starting 13 spot.

England I think has static numbers for their jerseys.

5. No more than one sponsor on the jersey. You have to think of jerseys as potential merchandise and no one wants a shirt that's loaded with sponsors. Yes, I realize that sponsors are currently an important revenue source, but I'm looking in to the future when there are more and better revenue sources like ticket sales, merchandise and advertising.

Well in the U.S, it'd be wise to make that a rule early. If they don't currently have sponsors, then you aren't depriving them of any with this rule, and it stays that way.

But yes, please hurry up and get on board.

Qualify as the 4th team in the Four nations, being competitive and host 7 games in packed stadiums in your country, it'd be a treat.

 

[Rampart66]

Here's a representation of an average gridiron football field like many teams currently use.

The blue line represnts the dimensions for rugby league (120m x 68m (131yds x 74 yds)). The yellow line are the American football dimensions (109.7m x 48.7m (120yds x 53.3 yds)).

The biggest problem is with the width. As you can see, 68 meters wide, goes into the track.

Currently, these types of fields are the most accessable and easiest to use because of the goal posts and line markings alreading place.

When you get into the larger stadiums that NFL teams use, there is more space, but many still fall short of the 68 meters.

An option for the future would be the new soccer-only stadiums that have popped up. They can accomodate a rugby league size field, but lines and goalposts would have to be added (like many stadiums in England in Super League). The one downsize to these stadiums is limited seating capacity (under 20,000).

 

[Rampart66]

One more thing about the uniform numbers. A big reason why static numbers would be helpful is that it would allow teams to create rosters with uniform numbers for the team website and game programs. Currently, it's very difficult to put a printed roster together to distribute to fans before the game if the numbered jerseys are handed out prior to kick off.

 

[Evil Homer]

One more thing about the uniform numbers. A big reason why static numbers would be helpful is that it would allow teams to create rosters with uniform numbers for the team website and game programs. Currently, it's very difficult to put a printed roster together to distribute to fans before the game if the numbered jerseys are handed out prior to kick off.

Squad numbers are used for all professional RL competitions in the UK, there's no reason American clubs couldn't use that system if they wanted to.

 

[Rampart66]

America is trying to sell the game to American fans who are used to static numbers in all of the other major sports.

Here's an example conversation from some new fans:

Fan 1: You have check out this rugby league, it's an awesome sport. The team has a player, Bob jones, who is an absolute beast.

Fan 2: What number does he wear? So I know to look for him.

Fan 1: I have no idea; the shirt numbers change every game.


Okay, I know that this is a pretty far fetched example, but I would rather not make things more difficult for fans that need to learn the rules of a whole new sport in addition to not being able to keep tracj of which player is which.

In international competitions, I can understand the 1-17 numbering and that's fine.

It would be like players switching numbers in the Premier League in every game. One week Wayne Rooney wers 10, the next week, he wears 8.

 

[Evil Homer]

America is trying to sell the game to American fans who are used to static numbers in all of the other major sports.

Here's an example conversation from some new fans:

Fan 1: You have check out this rugby league, it's an awesome sport. The team has a player, Bob jones, who is an absolute beast.

Fan 2: What number does he wear? So I know to look for him.

Fan 1: I have no idea; the shirt numbers change every game.


Okay, I know that this is a pretty far fetched example, but I would rather not make things more difficult for fans that need to learn the rules of a whole new sport in addition to not being able to keep tracj of which player is which.

In international competitions, I can understand the 1-17 numbering and that's fine.

It would be like players switching numbers in the Premier League in every game. One week Wayne Rooney wers 10, the next week, he wears 8.

Maybe you misunderstood, squad numbers is another way of saying static numbers. That's the system that is used in UK Rugby League. Players are allocated a number at the start of the season, and wear it for the entire season. I agree that it's a much better system.

 

[Rampart66]

Yes. I did misunderstand...sorry about that.

I do like that system more. It also enables the names to appear on the back of the shirts.

 

[billy2]

A few years ago a guy made a very good argument for playing 11 a side League on gridiron fields with gridiron markings in American highschools.

I still think it's the way to go for junior development.

The fields are there and ready to use for half the year. The game is simple, and also teaches skills that can be used in American football. 11 a side on the narrower fields would be close to identical to the 13 a side game on full fields.

 

[Rhode Island Rebellion]

A few years ago a guy made a very good argument for playing 11 a side League on gridiron fields with gridiron markings in American highschools.

I still think it's the way to go for junior development.

The fields are there and ready to use for half the year. The game is simple, and also teaches skills that can be used in American football. 11 a side on the narrower fields would be close to identical to the 13 a side game on full fields.

soccer is also played on the same fields as football. Therefore you have the soccer lines which is similiar if not the same as rugby league fields.

I dont see any point in making it a 11 a side game.

 

[billy2]

If the field is 16 yards narrower, 11 a side makes the spacing in the defensive line about right.
11 a side works very well. There were two 'experimental' games of 11 a side played in the NYC comp a few years ago, and i went to one of them. Apart from a few more gaps in the defense opening up, you wouldn't know the difference from 13 a side.

 

[NRL-TGG]

Don't change the number of players on the field.

Americans need to understand and compete at the sport with 13 players on the field.

Here's a representation of an average gridiron football field like many teams currently use.

The blue line represnts the dimensions for rugby league (120m x 68m (131yds x 74 yds)). The yellow line are the American football dimensions (109.7m x 48.7m (120yds x 53.3 yds)).

The biggest problem is with the width. As you can see, 68 meters wide, goes into the track.

Currently, these types of fields are the most accessable and easiest to use because of the goal posts and line markings alreading place.

When you get into the larger stadiums that NFL teams use, there is more space, but many still fall short of the 68 meters.

An option for the future would be the new soccer-only stadiums that have popped up. They can accomodate a rugby league size field, but lines and goalposts would have to be added (like many stadiums in England in Super League). The one downsize to these stadiums is limited seating capacity (under 20,000).

Let's walk before we run.

If Rugby League got to a stage between now and the next world cup of playing on some of the MLS grounds then that would be a huge success. atm aren't we playing at grounds that hold 2,000-3,000.

What crowds do Rugby Union get in the USA atm?

 

[Poul]

I think Americans will develop their own "vernacular" wrt the game, "organically", and this will help them to gain "ownership" of the game.
Some of this may be American football terminology, and others could be American neologisms.

If "Rugby League" can be successfully introduced to the American audience, I'm all for it, but I still think another term would likely be more successful.

 

[Rampart66]

Americans know what rugby is (although most don't know that there are two different codes). From the average American viewpoint, rugby is a brutal version of football without pads and no forward passes.

I hate to say this, but I'm not sure that NBC did rugby league any favors by televising some world cup games. There are a few guys that I work with who know that I have some involvement in rugby (once again, they don't know about the two codes). They watched some of the World Cup and told me that they couldn't watch it for more than 10 minutes because, quite frankly, it was boring.


Now I know that when you don't understand all of the ins and out and rules of the game that you would find it difficult to watch. For some reason I'm always surprised when I hear people from England tell me that they find the NFL boring because of all of the stoppages between plays. ...but I digress.

Anyway, I showed them Rugby League (State of Origin - Game 3) and explained a rough overview of the rules; the differences between RL and the NFL and the differences between League and Union.

I will say that they really enjoyed watching League and asked for more games to watch.

So I don't feel that there needs to be a different term for Rugby League. The people who are promoting the sport in the States (both in the AMNRL and USARL) just have to continue the great work that they've done to expand the sport and get as many people to understand and become fans of the sport.

 

[Poul]

Americans know what rugby is (although most don't know that there are two different codes). From the average American viewpoint, rugby is a brutal version of football without pads and no forward passes.

I hate to say this, but I'm not sure that NBC did rugby league any favors by televising some world cup games. There are a few guys that I work with who know that I have some involvement in rugby (once again, they don't know about the two codes). They watched some of the World Cup and told me that they couldn't watch it for more than 10 minutes because, quite frankly, it was boring.


Now I know that when you don't understand all of the ins and out and rules of the game that you would find it difficult to watch. For some reason I'm always surprised when I hear people from England tell me that they find the NFL boring because of all of the stoppages between plays. ...but I digress.

Anyway, I showed them Rugby League (State of Origin - Game 3) and explained a rough overview of the rules; the differences between RL and the NFL and the differences between League and Union.

I will say that they really enjoyed watching League and asked for more games to watch.

So I don't feel that there needs to be a different term for Rugby League. The people who are promoting the sport in the States (both in the AMNRL and USARL) just have to continue the great work that they've done to expand the sport and get as many people to understand and become fans of the sport.

R66, it's great to see some more American contribution to this thread.

With due respect, there appears to be some contradictory statements in your post. You say that most Americans know what rugby is, yet they are not aware of the fact that there are two codes of rugby!
I would contend that it is more likely that some Americans have some awareness of "rugby" which is probably due to some exposure to rugby union (eg ruwc), and not very likely to Rugby League.
Therefore, I would suggest that most don't actually know what rugby is, and would probably see both rugby union and Rugby League as "rugby".

You mention that some of your work colleagues watched some of the ruwc and found it boring (can't say I blame them :lol: ), and then go on to say that you have showed them Rugby League and they have enjoyed it. If this is the case, then were these people aware at the time that they were watching different sports?
I'd be curious to know the views of the "uninitiated" American fans, on what it was about union that bored them, and what it was about Rugby League that had them asking for more.
I believe you have some great opportunities to do some "market research" with these potential fans.
Perhaps these are the people we should be asking if the game would be better served being called American Rugby.

 

[krudmonk]

Don't change the number of players on the field.

Americans need to understand and compete at the sport with 13 players on the field.

Wasn't 11-a-side trialed in the NYC last year or the year before? I forget where and when exactly, but my point is that it's not without precedent.

 

[NRL-TGG]

What about option football?

During the Atlantic Cup commentary of today's match, Rich Aleger and Akarika Dawn were talking about the similarities between Rugby League and option football. As I understand it, Option football is a play or move in American Football which involved the quarter back setting up his blokes to give runners behind the QB a chance to make yards, QB often gives the ball to those runners with a pass back. Here is some footage of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nPmyYII9Fo

Americans are aware what option football is and it is very similar to Rugby League. Rugby League is continuous option football without the stoppages.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

Why does the name of the game and the rules have to change. People, it's a great game - the greatest game in my mind. It doesn't need to be changed. Poul, a while back you asked for some American thoughts on changing the name. Rampart 66, who I think has taken the time to do some research, doesn't feel a name change is necessary, and is American, yet you shoot holes in his reasoning. I'm not sure it matters to you what anyone says. I think you see your agenda as the only answer.

 

[RedVee]

If the name changes in the US and they go to things like 4 quarter games or 11 aside it becomes a different game and may not help the US when they play international games.

We have enough problems with the NRL not using international rules IMO.