Amnrl

[gyallop]

It's about doing the right thing, giving blokes a fair crack and not filling the team with ringers or guys who aren't committed. Obviously you want the strongest team, but there's also a responsibility to actually represent the nation you're claiming to represent.

I mean we could throw eligibility laws out the window, get a bunch of top NRL players to pull on Brazil jerseys but it wouldn't be a Brazil national team, it wouldn't be representing Brazil.

100% agree but as I understand the USA some of those blokes paid their own way since 2008 to play so that shows commitment as does getting no income for the duration of the world cup to play in my mind at least.

Should the rule be just country of birth with no heritage or citizenship?

 

[100%green]

USA Rugby League Governance position clarified

13th August 2014

The RLIF has put in place a process to solve the dispute over governance in the USA.

The Federation invited all interested parties to formally express their interest by applying to become a constituent member representing the country.

The closing date for receipt was set for today (August 13th). Only one has been received and that will be presented to the RLIF Board at its next meeting on 2nd September with a decision taken after due consideration.

RLIF chairman Nigel Wood commented: “The RLIF is committed to taking the sport forward in the Americas and to capitalise on the gains being made there, especially with the next World Cup in 2017, and its qualification process, in mind.”

“There is a clear willingness on the ground in the USA to take the sport forward and enhance its presence in the nation’s passionate sporting consciousness, in an all-inclusive manner.”

“We will be using all of our energy and resource to bring together all people and organisations who share this vision as far as we possibly can.”

Wood added: “The RLIF would like to formally acknowledge the invaluable contributions made towards to cause of rugby league in the USA by the founding fathers such as David Niu. Their tireless efforts should not be underestimated and a fitting legacy would be a thriving domestic competition and a consistently competitive national side. We hope that both are within reach.”

http://rlif.com/rugby-league-international-news/article/1467/usa-rugby-league-governance-position

Good to see the federation is actually starting to try and take control of the international game.

 

[spinnerhowland]

I am sure the USARL will wait for the RLIF to issue the acceptance before making any statement or or moves. At the moment we have a National Championship to get done, and cap of a great season of expansion.
If and when the National Team needs to be sorted out, it will be up the governing body to determine the selection process, and what players, from where, are chosen for various games.

I for one would like to see the USARL adopt a rule that is something along the lines that no less than ON THIRD of any team chosen to represent the USA must be made up of American Citizen Players, who are registered in the USA, and have a minimum of 2 seasons playing in the USA.
Of course in world cup teams there will be a need for "heritage players" to be competitive, but they their selection should not be at the expense of domestic players who are helping develop the sport in the USA, season in and season out. Their MUST be a balance to provide opportunity to the domestic players, at ALL international games, not just the ones the lead up to World Cup games.
Of course games in the USA or nations close will have a majority of domestic comp players, but here needs to be a rules and self governance from the NGB of each nation to ensure they are protecting the pathway for their HOME GROWN players, especially in developing nations.

Even in World cups, there must be a balance, and not a team chosen "at all costs" solely based on performance, rather than true representation of the nations domestic competition.

 

[roughyedspud]

so are AMNRL teams gonna switch to the USARL??

 

[Rugger]

I am sure the USARL will wait for the RLIF to issue the acceptance before making any statement or or moves. At the moment we have a National Championship to get done, and cap of a great season of expansion.
If and when the National Team needs to be sorted out, it will be up the governing body to determine the selection process, and what players, from where, are chosen for various games.

I for one would like to see the USARL adopt a rule that is something along the lines that no less than ON THIRD of any team chosen to represent the USA must be made up of American Citizen Players, who are registered in the USA, and have a minimum of 2 seasons playing in the USA.
Of course in world cup teams there will be a need for "heritage players" to be competitive, but they their selection should not be at the expense of domestic players who are helping develop the sport in the USA, season in and season out. Their MUST be a balance to provide opportunity to the domestic players, at ALL international games, not just the ones the lead up to World Cup games.
Of course games in the USA or nations close will have a majority of domestic comp players, but here needs to be a rules and self governance from the NGB of each nation to ensure they are protecting the pathway for their HOME GROWN players, especially in developing nations.

Even in World cups, there must be a balance, and not a team chosen "at all costs" solely based on performance, rather than true representation of the nations domestic competition.

I agree with this mostly, except that "no less than ONE THIRD of any team chosen to represent the USA must be made up of American Citizen Players, who are registered in the USA, and have a minimum of 2 seasons playing in the USA" Shouldn't it be the other way around; no less than 2/3rds be made up of American Citizen Players, who are registered in the USA, and have a minimum of 2 seasons playing in the USA? Otherwise it's basically the same as the current situation.

 

[gyallop]

This wont be an issue unless the USA beat Canada and Jamaica in 2016 but if the USA went with 2/3 "local" policy what would the team be if picked now?

 

[spinnerhowland]

I agree with this mostly, except that "no less than ONE THIRD of any team chosen to represent the USA must be made up of American Citizen Players, who are registered in the USA, and have a minimum of 2 seasons playing in the USA" Shouldn't it be the other way around; no less than 2/3rds be made up of American Citizen Players, who are registered in the USA, and have a minimum of 2 seasons playing in the USA? Otherwise it's basically the same as the current situation.

Rugger, in an ideal world yes, but the USA is still developing, and due to that there are a number of players who are playing in the USA, and have been for long enough that they qualify thru residency rather than heritage. These players need to also be considered based on their talent, that is almost always high due to previous pro/or semi-pro in OZ, NZ or the UK, and are also helping drive the game forward in the USA. Guys like Brent Shorten come to mind, and there are a few others as well. Those who are from overseas, but have given more than 2 years of service to the sport in the USA, and are able to claim residency in the USA.

In a team picked to play Canada or Jamaica, etc. you are always going to have a large number of domestic players due to the travel, time of year the games are played, etc. But when it comes to a World Cup or other VERY high profile international, having a third as CITIZENS who have given at least 2 years of service to the game domestically, and then add in the 4 or 5 guys who are residents but not citizens, the team will be pretty close to a good balance and give a pathway for Americans. You don't want to get too detailed in a rule like this by putting numbers of on more than one criteria, as that could end up being restrictive.

So lets say to instance in a team of 24. 8 of them need to be American Citizen, Registered and playing in the USA Domestic Comp for 2 years.
Then you have say 4 who are not citizens who are living here long enough to claim residency, and get into the team based on high level of performance and previous experience playing in their native country.

Then figure that 2 or 3 in the future are from the USA, played in the USA, but are have spent the last season or 2 playing in OZ, NZ or the UK, etc. so they are not registered in the USA for the past 2 seasons. Axemen Taylor Alley who is at Narooma would fit that, and Mike Garvey who went to OZ for 2 years as well.

You now have at least half the team made up of players who are either american or residents, who have all contributed to the sport in the USA, and you are still leaving enough spots for Heritage players needed to make the team competitive, while also being representative of the domestic landscape. The key is CITIZEN, Currently Registered in the USA as a Player, and having played 2 seasons.

Of course the RLIF does need to look at the rules for multiple nation players. And this is on the RLIF, NOT THE PLAYERS SELECTED. And example, last work cup play for New Zealand. Then later play for Samoa due to heritage. And then the next world cup get to play for the USA due to American Samoan Heritage.

And before anyone thinks I am taking a shot at players, or any nations, this is nothing more than an example!! Playing for three nations, ANY three nations, in 4 years should never be allowed

 

[spinnerhowland]

I agree with this mostly, except that "no less than ONE THIRD of any team chosen to represent the USA must be made up of American Citizen Players, who are registered in the USA, and have a minimum of 2 seasons playing in the USA" Shouldn't it be the other way around; no less than 2/3rds be made up of American Citizen Players, who are registered in the USA, and have a minimum of 2 seasons playing in the USA? Otherwise it's basically the same as the current situation.

And no mate, it is not the same. As far as I know, not one player from the 2013 USA world Cup team met this criteria.

USA Citizen / Registered and Playing in the Domestic Comp / Previous 2 seasons playing in the USA

It is time to look forward, not backwards, and we need to carefully consider a rule that allows for some heritage players as long as the RLIF lets that be the rule, but also set NGB Rules for the USA team that will always allow a pathway for domestic players. Careful consideration, and discussion from the NGB Board will need to take place, and then an open and transparent release issued when it happens.

 

[Rugger]

Rugger, in an ideal world yes, but the USA is still developing, and due to that there are a number of players who are playing in the USA, and have been for long enough that they qualify thru residency rather than heritage. These players need to also be considered based on their talent, that is almost always high due to previous pro/or semi-pro in OZ, NZ or the UK, and are also helping drive the game forward in the USA. Guys like Brent Shorten come to mind, and there are a few others as well. Those who are from overseas, but have given more than 2 years of service to the sport in the USA, and are able to claim residency in the USA.

In a team picked to play Canada or Jamaica, etc. you are always going to have a large number of domestic players due to the travel, time of year the games are played, etc. But when it comes to a World Cup or other VERY high profile international, having a third as CITIZENS who have given at least 2 years of service to the game domestically, and then add in the 4 or 5 guys who are residents but not citizens, the team will be pretty close to a good balance and give a pathway for Americans. You don't want to get too detailed in a rule like this by putting numbers of on more than one criteria, as that could end up being restrictive.

So lets say to instance in a team of 24. 8 of them need to be American Citizen, Registered and playing in the USA Domestic Comp for 2 years.
Then you have say 4 who are not citizens who are living here long enough to claim residency, and get into the team based on high level of performance and previous experience playing in their native country.

Then figure that 2 or 3 in the future are from the USA, played in the USA, but are have spent the last season or 2 playing in OZ, NZ or the UK, etc. so they are not registered in the USA for the past 2 seasons. Axemen Taylor Alley who is at Narooma would fit that, and Mike Garvey who went to OZ for 2 years as well.

You now have at least half the team made up of players who are either american or residents, who have all contributed to the sport in the USA, and you are still leaving enough spots for Heritage players needed to make the team competitive, while also being representative of the domestic landscape. The key is CITIZEN, Currently Registered in the USA as a Player, and having played 2 seasons.

Of course the RLIF does need to look at the rules for multiple nation players. And this is on the RLIF, NOT THE PLAYERS SELECTED. And example, last work cup play for New Zealand. Then later play for Samoa due to heritage. And then the next world cup get to play for the USA due to American Samoan Heritage.

And before anyone thinks I am taking a shot at players, or any nations, this is nothing more than an example!! Playing for three nations, ANY three nations, in 4 years should never be allowed

I understand what you're saying, but I still think that model impedes the growth of the sport in the US as a whole.

Being an American Citizen, Registered and playing in the USA Domestic Comp for 2 years is NOT a hard criteria to be met. There are currently 11 teams in the USARL. Let's say each team has a roster/pool of 30 active players; and say 6 of which are "imports"; that still leave a selection pool of 264 players. So you're telling me that of that 264, there aren't 16-20 qualified and talented players?

I understand putting together a good team, but at what cost (as you said also)? With that model it gives Johnny Smith who grew up on Main Street, America nothing to strive for; or it being a realistic goal within reach. Let's be very honest here, RL is a VERY small scale sport at this point here in the US. You need those Johnnys and Jims to help spread the game domestically. Johnny and Jim won't want to play a sport if the Manos & Jakks (who couldn't even point out half the States on a map) are already deemed better and have an easier path to selection.

And no mate, it is not the same. As far as I know, not one player from the 2013 USA world Cup team met this criteria.

USA Citizen / Registered and Playing in the Domestic Comp / Previous 2 seasons playing in the USA

It is time to look forward, not backwards, and we need to carefully consider a rule that allows for some heritage players as long as the RLIF lets that be the rule, but also set NGB Rules for the USA team that will always allow a pathway for domestic players. Careful consideration, and discussion from the NGB Board will need to take place, and then an open and transparent release issued when it happens.

Curtis Cunz & Andrew Kneisly definitely meet that criteria.

 

[Evil Homer]

^ Including players based on who they play for and not their actual merit or ability is counter-productive whichever way you look at it.

Kneisly and Cunz were not part of the World Cup squad BTW.

 

[Rugger]

^ Including players based on who they play for and not their actual merit or ability is counter-productive whichever way you look at it.

I'm definitely not saying that. You take the best of what you have to work with, while still maintaining legitimacy and nationalism. If the team meets X criteria (TBD), but doesn't score a try; it is better than a team full of "American" ringers; in my opinion.

BTW according to current USARL rules, there can only be a maximum of 4 "imports" on a team's gameday roster (~23% - less than one third). National team selections should follow similar guidelines.

Kneisly and Cunz were not part of the World Cup squad BTW.

Thanks for the clarification. I know they played in qualifiers, wasn't sure about actual Cup matches. Either way they are/were still selections for the National Team.

 

[spinnerhowland]

I'm definitely not saying that. You take the best of what you have to work with, while still maintaining legitimacy and nationalism. If the team meets X criteria (TBD), but doesn't score a try; it is better than a team full of "American" ringers; in my opinion.

BTW according to current USARL rules, there can only be a maximum of 4 "imports" on a team's gameday roster (~23% - less than one third). National team selections should follow similar guidelines.



Thanks for the clarification. I know they played in qualifiers, wasn't sure about actual Cup matches. Either way they are/were still selections for the National Team.

Actually only 3 import players per team in the USARL. And the World Cup team had not a single player that I know if that meets the criteria explained.

Yes, in a perfect world it would be great to have 75% of all national teams be 100% domestic, but in a system where the rules allow heritage players in such masses, you know other nations will be picking without consideration.
I read that Canada will be picking the "Best Players available, not matter where they are from of play, when it comes time for the WC Qualifiers." With the Commonwealth connections they could find a full team of Aussies or Brits with Canadian heritage.

So if you want to compete, you need to find the balance. It may not be a THIRD, it may be a HALF, but whatever it is, the point is that the NGB who controls the nations team is the one to "make a stand" to set guidelines down that include a certain number of TRUE and REAL domestic players for the team as a minimum for any and all games.

AND the Captain of any National Team, should met 2 criteria: (1) Be a born and raised person from that country, who has the pride that only someone like that can have.
(2) Be available for ALL games his National team plays, no matter if they are played in his nation, in the region, or at the WC.
From a point of national pride, the Captain of a Nations team should not be a heritage player.

 

[Rugger]

Actually only 3 import players per team in the USARL. And the World Cup team had not a single player that I know if that meets the criteria explained.

Yes, in a perfect world it would be great to have 75% of all national teams be 100% domestic, but in a system where the rules allow heritage players in such masses, you know other nations will be picking without consideration.
I read that Canada will be picking the "Best Players available, not matter where they are from of play, when it comes time for the WC Qualifiers." With the Commonwealth connections they could find a full team of Aussies or Brits with Canadian heritage.

So if you want to compete, you need to find the balance. It may not be a THIRD, it may be a HALF, but whatever it is, the point is that the NGB who controls the nations team is the one to "make a stand" to set guidelines down that include a certain number of TRUE and REAL domestic players for the team as a minimum for any and all games.

AND the Captain of any National Team, should met 2 criteria: (1) Be a born and raised person from that country, who has the pride that only someone like that can have.
(2) Be available for ALL games his National team plays, no matter if they are played in his nation, in the region, or at the WC.
From a point of national pride, the Captain of a Nations team should not be a heritage player.

I think we're on the same page :thumb

 

[deal.with.it]

A lot can happen in 2 years...

 

[byrner]

I understand what you're saying, but I still think that model impedes the growth of the sport in the US as a whole.

Being an American Citizen, Registered and playing in the USA Domestic Comp for 2 years is NOT a hard criteria to be met. There are currently 11 teams in the USARL. Let's say each team has a roster/pool of 30 active players; and say 6 of which are "imports"; that still leave a selection pool of 264 players. So you're telling me that of that 264, there aren't 16-20 qualified and talented players?

I understand putting together a good team, but at what cost (as you said also)? With that model it gives Johnny Smith who grew up on Main Street, America nothing to strive for; or it being a realistic goal within reach. Let's be very honest here, RL is a VERY small scale sport at this point here in the US. You need those Johnnys and Jims to help spread the game domestically. Johnny and Jim won't want to play a sport if the Manos & Jakks (who couldn't even point out half the States on a map) are already deemed better and have an easier path to selection.

Curtis Cunz & Andrew Kneisly definitely meet that criteria.

If the player is good enough they will get selected. Spinners example of a rule is exactly how it should be. Not too restrictive to stop them being competitive., but at the same time making sure the team represents the country they are playing for.

Plus he is talking about citizen, not born. This is how it should be.

 

[100%green]

Parramatta Eels star Joseph Paulo's role as US Tomahawks captain under threat as AMNRL bows out

August 15, 2014 - 6:28AM

Brad Walter
Chief Rugby League Writer

The Rugby League International Federation has been asked to help ensure Parramatta star Joseph Paulo's position as USA Tomahawks captain does not come under threat and other NRL-based players are not excluded after the American National Rugby League decided to cede control of the game to the rival USA Rugby League.

The decision was made in a bid to end the civil war over the game in the US, which had resulted in the Tomahawks being the only team to make the quarter-finals at last year's World Cup not guaranteed entry to the 2017 tournament in Australia and New Zealand due to the split between the rival bodies.

The performance of the Tomahawks inspired The Wiggles to record the internet hit USA Tomahawks Shock The World, which called for "President Obama ... to carve the face of Joseph Paulo on Mt Rushmore".

But in a letter to RLIF chairman Nigel Wood, AMNRL chairman Robert Balachandran said his organisation had missed out on the opportunity to capitalise on the success of the Paulo-led Tomahawks at the World Cup as sponsors would not commit without a guarantee the team would feature on television coverage of the tournament.

The AMNRL has been losing ground domestically since several clubs broke away in 2011 to form the rebel USARL competition and Balachandran said his organisation – founded 18 years ago by former St George halfback David Niu – felt the move was the only way for the game to grow domestically and on the international stage.

Balachandran said he hoped the USARL would continue the development work of the AMNRL, which included a Test in Hawaii last month against Samoa and other matches featuring NSW Country and Hawaii.

He also asked for the RLIF to ensure Paulo remained as captain of the Tomahawks, and players such as Eels teammate Bureta Faraimo, Wests Tigers hooker Joel Luani, Newcastle forward Clint Newton and Wigan second-rower Eddy Pettybourne are considered for selection following criticism by USARL officials of the selection of heritage players in the World Cup squad.

The AMNRL also wants former Warriors, Panthers and Raiders coach Matthew Elliott to retain his position as head coach.

Other requests were for the annual Test against Samoa in Hawaii to continue, with the match tentatively set down for June 20 next year, and the remaining six AMNRL clubs to be accepted into the USARL competition.

"We started the game of rugby league in the USA as we loved the game and its cultural values and hoped other Americans would embrace it and it would grow to become a major sport," Balachandran said. "We are proud of all we have achieved from the day David Niu grabbed some mates and started to pass a ball around to now being a top-10 ranked nation.

"We don’t want to see the game held back as it is now because of the differences of the two groups. We want to see the game grow domestically and for the USA Tomahawks to remain a force on the world stage. We don't want to see petty jealousy impact on what we have achieved."

Balachandran said he hoped the pioneering work of Niu would one day be officially recognised by the RLIF.


http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...l-bows-out-20140814-103zlz.html#ixzz3APaDdESS

Bit demanding....

 

[Evil Homer]

Didn't Paulo say something about wanting to play Origin this year? They're in no position to demand anything anyway, f**k them.

 

[gyallop]

Wrong Paulo Evil.

 

[roughyedspud]

the USARL would be wise to embrace whats left of the AMNRL..that means taking on the 6 AMNRL teams left and all the players that played for the tomahawks in the world cup...


the sport in the USA isn't in a posititon to discard anyone

 

[roughyedspud]

Didn't Paulo say something about wanting to play Origin this year? They're in no position to demand anything anyway, f**k them.

just a thought,im prone to them every once in a while, but maybe the AMNRL own "the rights" to the tomahawks...


anyone know if thats possible???