Andrew Webster

[Meth]

Anyway, as I said earlier, last year he went from us having a lot of confidence in him to giving him the benefit of the doubt.

After that, there’s a lot of doubt and he doesn’t get any benefit

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Anyway, as I said earlier, last year he went from us having a lot of confidence in him to giving him the benefit of the doubt.

After that, there’s a lot of doubt and he doesn’t get any benefit

What’s disappointing is that last year there were good signs at time when injuries forced changes - especially in those games where TMM, CNK and TT stood up as replacements. But Webster kept going back to playing his old combos and I suspect he’ll do the same this year.

 

[Rich102]

Time to put the FO back in the thread title.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I think part of what is happening is his loyalty and desire to pick and stick is going to be severely tested. He remains a good bloke, a good person who probably creates strong environments, but that means nothing if he can't get the right 17 out there playing the right type of football to win matches.

I get it's hard when you're there day to day but there are so many guys who aren't earning their spots and didn't last year, either. Kurt Capewell is top of that list. Jackson Ford is not an NRL level middle. Marata Niukore plays like he's 25kgs less than he is. Metcalf showed tonight he's a long way from an NRL 7.

Then there's the use of the bench, which to me when Vaimauga comes on with 14 minutes to go in a game where you're getting belted up front, that's poor use.

 

[Big Marn]

sunk cost fallacy from both the coach and the management. ie. Capewell and Niukore 800k apiece playing in NSW Cup is what should be happening but they probably cant stomach that, or admit they f**ked up with the price.

 

[Big Marn]

What’s disappointing is that last year there were good signs at time when injuries forced changes - especially in those games where TMM, CNK and TT stood up as replacements. But Webster kept going back to playing his old combos and I suspect he’ll do the same this year.

yeh, same. I feel like League isnt a complicated game and if we are all seeing the same thing, what are we missing? Are we just not smart enough to understand the nuances of the game and thats why he keeps going back to the vets? Were there defensive frailties we didnt notice in those games from those players at those positions?

 

[JJ]

sunk cost fallacy from both the coach and the management. ie. Capewell and Niukore 800k apiece playing in NSW Cup is what should be happening but they probably cant stomach that, or admit they f**ked up with the price.

Going to have to admit it at some point tbh, both are being selected on faith

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

I think part of what is happening is his loyalty and desire to pick and stick is going to be severely tested. He remains a good bloke, a good person who probably creates strong environments, but that means nothing if he can't get the right 17 out there playing the right type of football to win matches.

I get it's hard when you're there day to day but there are so many guys who aren't earning their spots and didn't last year, either. Kurt Capewell is top of that list. Jackson Ford is not an NRL level middle. Marata Niukore plays like he's 25kgs less than he is. Metcalf showed tonight he's a long way from an NRL 7.

Then there's the use of the bench, which to me when Vaimauga comes on with 14 minutes to go in a game where you're getting belted up front, that's poor use.

Yea good points. I'm prepared to give Metcalf a break though; first game running the team, I think he's entitled to a bit of time to find his feet.

For me it was the continued poor use of the bench that was the most frustrating. He said in a pre-game interview he'd picked 4 forwards on the bench because he didnt want to put too much fatigue in the middle - but then he goes and does exactly that.

Capewell missed 9 tackles but when he played nearly 70mins straight its almost no wonder. Meanwhile there's a couple of young aggressive edges who twiddled their thumbs until the game was nearly gone. And to cap it off, I think we only used 7 interchanges.

FMD that was a hard watch. Thank god the last game was more entertaining.

 

[Izz]

For me it was the continued poor use of the bench that was the most frustrating. He said in a pre-game interview he'd picked 4 forwards on the bench because he didnt want to put too much fatigue in the middle - but then he goes and does exactly that.

Capewell missed 9 tackles but when he played nearly 70mins straight its almost no wonder. Meanwhile there's a couple of young aggressive edges who twiddled their thumbs until the game was nearly gone. And to cap it off, I think we only used 7 interchanges.

Yep, this continued inability to show confidence in his bench players is just diabolical

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Yep, this continued inability to show confidence in his bench players is just diabolical

Yep, it's not good. Those young guys like Demetric, Leka and so on won't get better until they're given decent minutes...and there will be no pressure on someone like Capewell, who had an absolutely awful game but will be at 11 next week (and week after and so on)

It reminds me of Gary Stead, who kept picking 30+ year olds despite a bunch of young guys who deserved a go and needed development. He finally got there with Rachin, Ben Sears, O'Rourke etc only because of injuries to the older guys he kept relying on.

It's a real conservatism in our side coaching-wise, and we are going to get nowhere with that approach.

 

[Izz]

It's a real conservatism in our side coaching-wise, and we are going to get nowhere with that approach.

And how long before we have a few more Zyon Maiu'u situations because these young guns get tired of warming the bench?

 

[Big Marn]

Yep, it's not good. Those young guys like Demetric, Leka and so on won't get better until they're given decent minutes...and there will be no pressure on someone like Capewell, who had an absolutely awful game but will be at 11 next week (and week after and so on)

It reminds me of Gary Stead, who kept picking 30+ year olds despite a bunch of young guys who deserved a go and needed development. He finally got there with Rachin, Ben Sears, O'Rourke etc only because of injuries to the older guys he kept relying on.

It's a real conservatism in our side coaching-wise, and we are going to get nowhere with that approach.

it vexes me.

 

[JJ]

Yep, it's not good. Those young guys like Demetric, Leka and so on won't get better until they're given decent minutes...and there will be no pressure on someone like Capewell, who had an absolutely awful game but will be at 11 next week (and week after and so on)

It reminds me of Gary Stead, who kept picking 30+ year olds despite a bunch of young guys who deserved a go and needed development. He finally got there with Rachin, Ben Sears, O'Rourke etc only because of injuries to the older guys he kept relying on.

It's a real conservatism in our side coaching-wise, and we are going to get nowhere with that approach.

Presumablt it's a make the semis now approach - more likely with experience (although then TMM seems strange ) - reality is the squad is poor, and as above people like Capewell, Niukore are hugely overpaid for what they deliver etc,,, Agree we need to suck it up and put some young talent in to develop with a 3 year plan - they can learn heaps from RTS, JFH and Barnett

But then, people arguing for TMM running the team seem to have missed most of his career, yes there are highlights, but overall he's not that guy... I don't know that Metcalfe is, but at least that's a small possibility...

 

[SpaceMonkey]

But then, people arguing for TMM running the team seem to have missed most of his career, yes there are highlights, but overall he's not that guy... I don't know that Metcalfe is, but at least that's a small possibility...

I’m judging TMM solely on what he’s done at the Warriors, and right now I think he’s the guy with the runs on the board. His prior record is less relevant IMO.

 

[JJ]

I’m judging TMM solely on what he’s done at the Warriors, and right now I think he’s the guy with the runs on the board. His prior record is less relevant IMO.

Yep, I get that, but even his efforts at the Warriors are spotty, right? Some really good stuff... some less so... I'd prefer a future oriented approach, but Webster is mixed on that anyway, so the non-selection of TMM is weird. But rough season this year regardless imo

 

[Meth]

Yep, I get that, but even his efforts at the Warriors are spotty, right? Some really good stuff... some less so...

To be fair, gameplan seems to have contributed to that

 

[Penrose Warrior]

And how long before we have a few more Zyon Maiu'u situations because these young guns get tired of warming the bench?

Well, as soon as 2-3 weeks ago given that's when Zyon went!

But yeah absolutely, it could happen again if Webby can't get the balance right of bringing through young guys.

In 2024, these were the games played: Zyon (1), MGT (3), Leka (4), Laban (7), Leiataua (6), Tuaupiki (6), Demetric (4), Berry (12) of guys who are below 25 (I didn't count Lussick as he's well down pecking order now)

To me, that's not ideal that you haven't got a single guy below 25 that has over 10 games and is fit. Especially when you're not winning with the guys over 25.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Presumablt it's a make the semis now approach - more likely with experience (although then TMM seems strange ) - reality is the squad is poor, and as above people like Capewell, Niukore are hugely overpaid for what they deliver etc,,, Agree we need to suck it up and put some young talent in to develop with a 3 year plan - they can learn heaps from RTS, JFH and Barnett

But then, people arguing for TMM running the team seem to have missed most of his career, yes there are highlights, but overall he's not that guy... I don't know that Metcalfe is, but at least that's a small possibility...

Yeah absolutely you're right, it is a make the semis now approach. And it looks a million miles away. As a fan, I hated last year that we were losing and not really planning to the future. We hung on with a busted SJ. Young guys like Leka, Demetric etc played very minimal minutes and minimal games.

Could I cope with a three-year plan? Yep, because we have a core of experienced guys and we need to be bringing those young, promising guys through. We should really never have lost Zyon when Jackson Ford plays middle on the weekend. Anyone want to tell me that's a good strategy to play Ford over a guy with Zyon's promise? OK, he can play more minutes, but how else are these guys meant to learn how to play NRL and play big minutes without actually doing it?

I feel like Webby is way too conservative, and probably feels like he is under the pump + can't experiment with young guys when he's trying to just get a W or two on the board. But it's not helping us now, or into the future

 

[One Warrior]

Well, as soon as 2-3 weeks ago given that's when Zyon went!

But yeah absolutely, it could happen again if Webby can't get the balance right of bringing through young guys.

In 2024, these were the games played: Zyon (1), MGT (3), Leka (4), Laban (7), Leiataua (6), Tuaupiki (6), Demetric (4), Berry (12) of guys who are below 25 (I didn't count Lussick as he's well down pecking order now)

To me, that's not ideal that you haven't got a single guy below 25 that has over 10 games and is fit. Especially when you're not winning with the guys over 25.

I agree, however Leiataua, Demetric and Berry were all out for long periods last year with long term injuries, all three would of played a lot more without those injuries.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I agree, however Leiataua, Demetric and Berry were all out for long periods last year with long term injuries, all three would of played a lot more without those injuries.

Oh for sure, I'm not necessarily blaming...I'm just saying it's far from ideal when we have literally no one under 25 who has played more than 7 games.