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ANZAC Test

saint pebba

Coach
Messages
10,175
If I was a kiwi, I would want to see this backline:

1. Lolohea
2. DWZ
3. Kahu
4. Hiku
5. Rona
6. Foran
7. Johnson
 

Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
17,221
Hardly surprising I've been pushing this barrow for a decade now but...if Vatuvei is fit how is he not an automatic selection?

Kearney tried to phase him out a few years ago (without really having any form-based reason to do so) and he came back to have a great 2013 season, strong World Cup, was practically man of the match in our last 2 games against Aus (2014 4N Final and 2015 ANZAC test) and people are still trying to find ways to leave him out.
 

Scott

Bench
Messages
3,796
If Manu is fit, he plays, pretty simple. He was also Man of the Match in the corresponding test last year.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,710
I guess with the forward power we have perhaps the Kiwis aren't in the same need of his go forward as the Warriors are? Then his frailties become more problematic?

I do agree with you though
 

Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
17,221
I guess with the forward power we have perhaps the Kiwis aren't in the same need of his go forward as the Warriors are? Then his frailties become more problematic?

I do agree with you though

I think historically this has been pretty much the opposite of how it pans out though. Manu becomes more valuable in tests and high-intensity games generally where every metre is crucial and turning half-chances into tries is too.

There seems to be this idea that a "safe" or "classy" player like Nightingale (not specifically singling him out, just for example) is better suited to internationals yet I recall several occasions where the game has been a grind and the inability of the "classy" winger to make any inroads in those situations has been pretty stark.

My recollection is that Manu's test career has generally seen him play above his normal standard yet I think there is always this perception that he might make a crucial error and that "might" is enough of a reason to always have a question mark hovering over him.

Of course, now I've said that he'll probably get picked, make a succession of clangers and lose us the game.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,710
I think historically this has been pretty much the opposite of how it pans out though. Manu becomes more valuable in tests and high-intensity games generally where every metre is crucial and turning half-chances into tries is too.

There seems to be this idea that a "safe" or "classy" player like Nightingale (not specifically singling him out, just for example) is better suited to internationals yet I recall several occasions where the game has been a grind and the inability of the "classy" winger to make any inroads in those situations has been pretty stark.

My recollection is that Manu's test career has generally seen him play above his normal standard yet I think there is always this perception that he might make a crucial error and that "might" is enough of a reason to always have a question mark hovering over him.

Of course, now I've said that he'll probably get picked, make a succession of clangers and lose us the game.


Yep, I agree with you - I think Nightingale is a tremendous player, but Manu is an all time great (not clear why this is even debatable) - he has the occasional blunder but they are selectively recalled - perception more than reality.
 

Leber

Bench
Messages
3,959
1. RTS
2. Kahu
3. SKD
4. Whare
5. Rona
6. Johnson
7. Foran
8. Bromwich
9. Luke
10. Matulino
11. Mannering
12. Proctor
13. Taumalolo

14. Nikorima
15. Harris
16. Blair
17. Taupau

This with lolo at 1.
 

tangalife

Juniors
Messages
530
I say dont blood anyone for the sake of it, everyone in on their own merit.

We're in our best period for a loooong time and our core is still young anyway, so we should just field full strength teams and go for the wins now.

Still a while away before we need to do what Kearney did 2 ANZAC tests ago and run out a bunch of new young guys.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,710
Meninga's first test - he'll want a win, will likely select a very experienced team, will be a hard one to win
 
Messages
4,924
Assuming Dean whare is unavailable;

1. Lolohea
2. Kahu
3. SKD
4. Hiku
5. Rapana
6. Johnson
7. Foran
8. Bromwich
9. Luke
10. Matulino
11. Mannering
12. Proctor
13. Taumalolo

14. Nikorima
15. Harris
16. SST
17. Taupau

18. Paulo
 

WellsNZ

Juniors
Messages
903
He hasn't been playing there but no other Kiwi has been, and he has been playing well, any love for Norman at fullback?

Assuming Whare and SST are unavailable

1. Norman
2. Rona
3. SKD
4. Hiku
5. Manu
6. Foran
7. Johnson
8. Bromwich
9. Luke
10. Matulino
11. Mannering
12. Proctor
13. Taumalolo

14. Harris
15. Eastwood
16. Blair
17. Taupau

If you want a utility guy on the bench then Nikorima but I've always preferred Luke just playing 80 and having another big boy on the bench to roll in.

Could also move Hiku to fullback and play Rona in the centres, bringing in DWZ or Nightingale or Kahu.

I like the mention of Rapana but think there's a few above him on the depth chart.
 
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JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,710
He'll be fine - but I think he's more designed for NRL football - week in week out he delivers at pretty much the same level... never bad, and never Eric Grothe... kind of the opposite of Shaun Johnson

There's some quality and depth everywhere with the exception of depth in the halves and hooker
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
Manu is fine at test level, he gets baby sat by the best center NZ rugby league can muster.
The rest of the defensive line is sound also, which can compensate for Manu's poor reads.

Manu makes better decisions at test level because he has a better communicator paired with him and there is more time with less conflicting decision options under pressure (this is by virtue of what the entire D line is doing inside of his position),

So the Kiwis don't fragment like the Warriors.
They don't slide too late.
They don't often have lazy or clocked off players that don't chase out from the inside.


All this preliminary work means Vatuvei ends up defending in a very clear narrow corridor.

Jason Nightingale is a better prototype for a test Winger.

I firmly believe in Wingers as specialist defenders that have Try finishing qualities.

Line breaks are rare out wide now days, block busting centers like Hurrell can't make the Kiwis, even when available, specialist defensive centers that draw and pass are the way to defeat Australia.

Try's are scored either off kicks or by creating space on the edges.

The Kiwis don't win consistently through powerful backs.

The Kiwis are number one at the moment because they consistently keep Australia to twelve points or less.

Defensive players lay the platform for victory for the modern Kiwi game plan, this puts us in the ball park with Australia.

Johnsons forwards give him space, Johnsons speed and footwork creates gaps by virtue of committing defenders, outside of that people score or he scores.

The Kiwis right edge is better than it's left because boring old test legends like Nightingale and his center, plus Proctor....all know to run angles and are players in motion for eighty minutes.

On our left edge you have a great Impact Prop that can smash over in the corner with players on him....not a bad option....but the prototype player that has changed the Kiwis fortunes are all the smart defenders that defend three sets on our goal line in a row....sometimes more.

That is why we win....not through players that can score special Try's or get a roll on in isolation.

Would I pick Manu ?

Absolutely.

Not because he is essential, rather he has qualities that the Kiwis can use.....and more importantly this kiwi line up can afford to defend his defensive flaws.

Were the defensive considerations not an option, I would never pick Manu.
 
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Panther_Daz

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,901
Cooks missed the WC so you would think NZ.

That right wing spot is going to be a tough call between Nightingale, SKD, Kahu, DWZ and Rapana.
 

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