Are we fat because we eat too much or eat the wrong things?

[aqua_duck]

Better that people be confused than uninformed imo. One of the biggest challenges of losing weight is the frustration of seeing little or no results when you think you are doing the right thing (ie exercising and eating "healthier" foods). If we can educate people that there is more to it we may just get better results from them and a healthier population

Alot of people I talk to who think they're eating healthier actually aren't. Many people have misconceptions on what they should and shouldn't eat.
People don't tend to read/understand nutrition labels, they see words like natural, organic, reduced fat, fat free, etc and automatically think its healthy. People go on these vegetarian/detox diets which a devoid of all protein and they think they're doing themselves a favour.
I've got a friend who was trying to live abit healthier and lose a little bit of weight, she didn't eat much take out food but was making all the wrong food choices at the supermarket. I was at her house one time and saw things like Lipton ice tea, fruit juice, organic chocolate, potato, low fat (high sugar) yoghurt, and crunchy nut corn flakes. Education needs to start at the supermarket IMO, most of us on here would know all those above food items aren't going to help you lose weight, but alot of people out there aren't that nutritionally savvy

 

[Joker's Wild]

The only reason current information is not helping people lose weight is because they are ignoring it.

If you count calories and start exercising 4-6 hours per week you will lose weight. Thats the basic formula for just about all diet systems around today. The only people who fail at this system are the ones who cut corners somewhere along the line.

Counting calories isnt good enough mate. You have to be taking in the correct nutrient balance otherwise you will fail because you simply cant maintain a diet of say, 1500 cal per day when all of those calories only come from 1-2 sources.

The basic premis is good but you will do much better if you educate yourself on what to eat and when to eat it.

 

[Danish]

Counting calories isnt good enough mate. You have to be taking in the correct nutrient balance otherwise you will fail because you simply cant maintain a diet of say, 1500 cal per day when all of those calories only come from 1-2 sources.

The basic premis is good but you will do much better if you educate yourself on what to eat and when to eat it.

Well obviously trying to eat 1500 cals a day but still wanting to eat maccas for lunch is going to be unsustainable as you'll be starving yourself.

The key is to sit down and say right, I have X amount of calories I can eat, and I have a minimum of 4 meals (minimum 300 cals per meal) to divide it by. In doing this, you soon realise pretty quickly what you can and can't eat. If you keep playing around with your diet till you find a combination that keeps you both under your calorie limit and feeling satisfied then it will become easy.

The key to me is having the fortitude to keep at it till you find the right combo, and the will to give up the things that are causing you to blow out.

 

[Red Bear]

Easiest way to lose weight is to not get fat in the first place tbh. The amount of habits that are retained from early in life astounds me. I've been active my whole life and it's not even something I really have to think about, because doing something (be it soccer, running or whatever) is just part of routine. My diet itself has varied in quality, although of late (probably gradually over the last two-three years but especially the last 3-4 months) it's been vastly improved, and it certainly helps.

 

[beave]

I have struggled with my weight all my life. As mentioned in the personal achievement thread, I dropped 20-21kgs and about 7 inches off my waist over the last 4 months and the main changes I made in my life for this to occur was eliminating sugar, flour, rice and starchy carbs pretty much completely out of my diet(other than the odd slip up here and there) and upping my exercise to at least 60 mins of circuits/70% cardio every day (yesterday I did 3 hours of various training and an hour this morning and by god I have never felt better!!!!)

The thing for me that used to cruel my weight loss efforts in the past was constantly feeling hungry and never being sastified after eating but after reading the Dukan diet and following it strictly, it really changed my life. Instead of having a serving of spuds or rice with dinner, swapping it for another portion of protein to go with the vegies and not feeling guilty was a really hard concept for me as you are told by everyone to wooo up on the meat if you want to lose weight and so forth. I am pretty new to the whole eating well/exercise well lifestyle so this may seem really stupid to some of you but I guess I had to start somewhere. In my head I was thinking when eating a massive packet of pretzels 'hey, they aren't chips so they gotta be good for you!!' not realizing I probably just ate 5 days worth of refined flour(sugar) and salt in one sitting, I can't believe how f**king nieve and geniused my thought patterns were in regards to food for so long (I'm 32).

I really think we aren't designed to eat anywhere near the amount of sugar/carbs that is thrown into our diet and also recommended by nutritionists. We are told to eat shit tins of fruit, but a lot of the fruits were harder to obtain back in the early days of man, it took a lot of energy to cut down a massive bunch of bananas and haul it back to camp or climb a coconut tree to get the f**king thing in the first place, but now I can drive down to the shop, buy a big bunch of bananas and drive home and probably expelled 1/10th of the calories early man did to get the same bananas. The amount of energy it used to take to make bread is phenomenal, from gathering the grains to refining them and then baking it (think of all that fire wood that had to be cut to be put in the oven), now we again just drive down to the shops and buy it.................

We have just made life too easy in every way and food gathering I guess is a prime example. We're just not expelling the same amount of energy on a daily basis that we should be and when food companies like to load up on the sugar and preservatives in their food to make you crave it and allow it to be stored and transported to far flung regions, I guess it's all a downward spiral.

 

[CliffyIsGod]

Good post Beave! Great effort, and can't disagree with anything you said.

 

[aqua_duck]

We have just made life too easy in every way and food gathering I guess is a prime example. We're just not expelling the same amount of energy on a daily basis that we should be and when food companies like to load up on the sugar and preservatives in their food to make you crave it and allow it to be stored and transported to far flung regions, I guess it's all a downward spiral.

You make a very good point there. I was watching a documentary one time about the Pacific Islands and its obesity rate. I mean Islanders are naturally big people but their ancestors never struggled with obesity and other weight related issues like heart disease and diabetes and the reason why is because in the past most Islanders worked long hard days doing labour intensive jobs, such as working on plantations, and other agricultural type jobs, and hence they really needed a calorie rich diet to refuel themselves after 10-12 hours in the field. These days not many Islanders work on plantations but they're eating the same food as their ancestors did which is leading to a really bad obesity crisis

 

[Fast Eddie]

Losing weight is easy if you actually want to do it.

 

[Hooch]

Counting calories is ridiculous, it doesn't work.

When you eat a balanced meal and achieve fullness there is a hormonal response you have to become accustomed too. If you count calories you are not eating, you are almost doling out fuel to a machine, and most people don't want to live like that and will drop the system.

The biggest problem with an idiotic thing like calorie counting is your hunger will increase and decrease with your activity. So unless you live a heavily regimented life activity wise the system of calorie counting will not be able to cope with levels of activity that go up and down.

So you see this pattern where people 'have a break' or whatever and put the weight back on. The reason is not a failure on their part, it's that the system they were using to maintain their energy balance is deeply flawed.

 

[Cliffhanger]

I don't think that's a fair statement, it takes hard work and in the beginning your body resists the change. It takes patience, discipline and a lot of will power and the correct knowledge. We all have goals (things we really want to do) but having a goal is never enough if you do not have a plan that you are able to follow.

Our habits are controlled by our sub-conscious and it is not easy to reprogram that.

What frustrates me is the how much misinformation there is out there. The amount people who think they are being healthy when they eat a musli bar or the amount of people who wonder why they're getting fat when they only eat three meals a day or less.

I see it a lot, people buy a relatively healthy cereal and make themselves a huge bowl, when one serving is usually less than a cup. They end up unknowingly eating 1000 calories as just part of their breakfast.

How many people do you reckon believe a boost smoothie is pretty healthy? They drink it as a snack without paying any attention to how much calories are in there or the fact that there's ice cream in most of them.

I think we both eat too much food and the wrong foods.

A person who is overweight eats too much and eats the wrong food. Their are a lot of unhealthy people who are the ideal body weight too, these people just eat the wrong foods, without necessarily creating a calorie surplus.

 

[Cliffhanger]

Counting calories is ridiculous, it doesn't work.

When you eat a balanced meal and achieve fullness there is a hormonal response you have to become accustomed too. If you count calories you are not eating, you are almost doling out fuel to a machine, and most people don't want to live like that and will drop the system.

The biggest problem with an idiotic thing like calorie counting is your hunger will increase and decrease with your activity. So unless you live a heavily regimented life activity wise the system of calorie counting will not be able to cope with levels of activity that go up and down.

So you see this pattern where people 'have a break' or whatever and put the weight back on. The reason is not a failure on their part, it's that the system they were using to maintain their energy balance is deeply flawed.

There are problems with waiting until you feel full. Firstly most people confuse thirst with hunger. Secondly it generally takes your body around 30 minutes to register you are full. Thirdly there is strong evidence showing the benefits of some caloric restriction. Eating until you're 70-80 per cent full appears to be a decent approach. Further, food is supposed to be fuel. You need a calorie deficit to lose weight, chances are you're going to feel hungry at times if your have one. Planning meals and how much you will eat when you first start out is the way to go, eventually eating healthy and the right portions becomes automatic.

 

[Hooch]

The article was interesting if not a bit windy and struggled to make its point. I don't think the anti obesity campaigners would argue that you should eat a lot of processed carbohydrates.

There is probably a lot of the old fear of protein and fat amongst the anti-obesity mob, which was originally drawn from the simplistic observation that protein and fat are more energy dense than carbohydrate, so eat less of them to reduce your energy intake. The article dispels that ridiculous myth adequately, but I had thought (or would hope) that most people had figured that out by now.

But here's the kicker for all of you: the anti-obesity campaign itself is a flawed, vain proposition that always shames people into losing weight and further instills in them a belief that their bodies are the wrong shape and size.

I don't accept that being overwight or carrying excess adipose tissue is a major health risk, or anything to be particular concerned about unless it is a cosmestic concern for the individual. Living a sedentary lifestyle and having a very poor diet have significant health implications, but being overweight is a symptom of such a lifestyle and not a cause of health problems.

As the article states, and as well all know from our daily lives, there are many people who are overweight, yet fortunate enough to live active lives and are otherwise healthy.

The anti-obesity campaign isn't driven by a concern for peoples health, I think it's just a glossed up method of having a crack at fatties, and it doesn't do anything for people.

As the article states, it doesn't, and hasn't worked. Until it embraces the message that it is ok to be overweight, and to simply concentrate on living a healthier lifestyle for your own quality of life, it won't.

In our society there is a health craze focused on the body and images of athleticism as an ideal of health. Which it simply isn't, and I think most people accept being an athlete is not necessarily healthy in a holistic sense. Amongst the younger generation it is more pronounced and there is more peer pressure to fit in and to find a partner who is attracted to you.

But in terms of health it is entirely overrated. You see such attitudes enshrined in The Biggest Loser, a circus to humiliate obese people. When Kerryn McAnn got cancer she was shocked, she didnt think it would happen to her as she was so fit.

The point is there is the unstated assumption of a link between a state of - physical fitness, athleticism, having a certain body shape and health - and to be blunt it is complete crap.

A 100 years ago sport and competition was an idle pasttime for the rich, and the idea that you would exercise more to lose weight was considered ridiculous. You simply ate less.

 

[Cliffhanger]

A hundred years ago the majority of people lived active lives, there was no need to exercise, because people we generally not sedentary. We are not designed to spend most of our days on our arse in an office. We act like being fit is abnormal, when it's how we're supposed to be.

Having fat around your mid section does present an added health risk. You are more susceptible to metabolic diseases and hypertension when you are storing more fat.

It also makes a huge difference as you age and your metabolism deteriorates and you lose a lot of muscle and bone mass.

You do realise you just said the link between body shape and physical health is complete crap? Read over that, surely even you can see how ridiculous that is.

 

[Hooch]

There are problems with waiting until you feel full. Firstly most people confuse thirst with hunger. Secondly it generally takes your body around 30 minutes to register you are full. Thirdly there is strong evidence showing the benefits of some caloric restriction. Eating until you're 70-80 per cent full appears to be a decent approach. Further, food is supposed to be fuel. You need a calorie deficit to lose weight, chances are you're going to feel hungry at times if your have one. Planning meals and how much you will eat when you first start out is the way to go, eventually eating healthy and the right portions becomes automatic.

Learning to tell the difference between being thirsty and being hungry is part of the process of learning to eat. Yes there is a delay in fullness, and anticipating that is part of the process as well.

As you imply, once you learn these skills, you don't need to calorie count or specifically plan your meals down to the finest detail and time, as you develop an understanding of your body.

Once you have done that, you have more ordered eating, and a more stable platform on which to build your diet.

My point is, taking someone who is overweight, giving them a 6000kj per day diet plan, is a recipe for disaster.

If they stick to it, yes they will drop weight. They will likely be exhausted as for a lot of people they are in significant deficit, and eventually they will drop the process.

It is far more important to develop more ordered eating, and a more balanced diet, and a better understanding of your body.

The best way to do this, funnily enough, is to not implement an energy deficiency into the diet!

Hence to become more healthy, and ultimately you will drop weight, you should simply focus on becoming healthy.

Unless you are dangerously obese there is no need to crash diet. If you already have ordered eating and are just a fat lazy prick, go nuts, crash diet to your hearts content. But if you have a history of swinging weight, then it is your disordered eating which is likely the problem.

 

[Hooch]

You do realise you just said the link between body shape and physical health is complete crap? Read over that, surely even you can see how ridiculous that is.

Yes dear, I do realise that is exactly what I said.

You are sort of the epitomy of a physical fitness focused craze that rolls around under the guise of health.

You overtrain, you develop chronic injuries, you are a fat girl gone thin who confuses health with a certain body shape and size.

That's fine if that is someones goals, to reach a peak physical state, or to push their body to the limit or beyond the limit.

But for a lot of people that won't help them, and it won't help them reach a state of health.

 

[Cliffhanger]

I wouldn't recommend the way I train to others, but when it comes to physical fitness and performance there is benefits to being lean.

Pfft, I haven't developed any chronic injuries, I am stronger, faster and fitter than I have ever been and it feels amazing.

Also I am not "thin" I am slim, there is a difference. My weight is usually around 60 kg, which for my height (160 cm) is not exactly low.

There is too much of an obsession with body image no doubt, but to say the whole link between body shape and health is crap, is plain untrue, it might be an exaggerated link, but there is a strong link.

 

[Hooch]

There can be a strong link, but I think it's confusing a symptom with a cause. I don't think carrying excess fat is good for the body, but I do think the health risks of simply having excess fat on your body are grossly exaggerated or the subject of myth.

You can be overweight and relatively healthy, and of 'normal' weight and very unhealthy.

A lot of it simply comes down to a stigma surrounding being fat.

 

[Cliffhanger]

I can see where you're coming from. You can still be fit and be a bit over weight and have a slightly higher bf percentage. You can even be healthier than a lot of people in a healthy weight range. I also agree that people have to make tangible lifestyle changes. You do not have to be pumping iron at gym but you do have to stay active and get on your feet more. You expend a lot more energy running than yo do mowing the lawn though. I think too many people believe that being active is not normal. Our bodies are designed to be active.

 

[Danish]

The amount of people that are fat but healthy compared to those who are fat and also unhealthy is pretty damned low in my experience.

Also, just because an overweight person can't stick to a certain diet plan does not make the plan a failure. In fact, most of the time it simply means the overweight person is a failure and is blaming an external source for their inability to fix their weight problem

 

[Frailty]

I read this thread, and I'm pretty sure I'm read to bash some heads in...

Some people here are absolutely ridiculous.