ARLC Advancing RL

[siv]

Now that we have address the finals system #1 change

here are some thoughts on how to progress RL to the next level

#2 - 2013 - National Reserve Grade and merge NSW Cup / Bundy Cup / NSW Country Divisional Championship into a 14 team comp with WA particpating giving each NSW & QLD Cup team a annual grant of $250K with WA and Darwin given $500K. Darwin joins QLD Cup

#3 - 2014 - Pre-Season Comp 18 teams - 16 NRL clubs plus NSW Cup winners and QLD Cup winners
- Week 1 - 6 pools of 3 teams play each other across 20 min periods - T1 v T2 20 min, T1 v T3 20 min, T2 v T3 20 min, T1 v T2 20 min, T1 v T3 20 min, T2 v T3 20 min
- Week 2 - Top 9 team semi finals - where 3 pools of 3 teams play each other across 20 min periods - T1 v T2 20 min, T1 v T3 20 min, T2 v T3 20 min, T1 v T2 20 min, T1 v T3 20 min, T2 v T3 20 min
- Week 3 - The 3 winners of each pool playoff in a final of the same structure

#4 - 2014 - Commencment of new 4 year International RL Calender
- City v Country played in NSW & QLD a SOO I,II,III all played on "4 international rep weekends"
- Annual Mid Season 4 Nation Euro Cup & 4 Nation Pacific Cup (played during SOO period)
- 3rd Weekend of Oct - World Club Challenge
- Y1-Y2 6 Nations / Y3 Kangaroo Tour of GB / Y4 World Cup
- Y1-Y2 End of Season 6 Nation Euro Shield / 6 Nation Pacific Shield / Y3 is World Cup Qualifiers / Y4 Emerging Nations World Cup

#4 2015 Expansion Teams 1 and Team 2 enter the competition - 24 round comp with 8 semi final teams
- also Adelaide and Hobart join NSW Cup

#5 2016
- NZ RL establish a 12 team natonal RL comp once again each team getting $250K grant, South Island clubs get $500K

#6 2018 Expansion Teams 3 and Teams 4 enter the competition - 24 round comp with 8 semi final teams
- establish a Pacific Island domestic competition with each club getting $500K annual grant

 

[East Coast Tiger]

#2 No. Too costly for very little benefit. The numbers don't even stack up because if you had NSW and Qld Cup and country "divisional" sides (the divisions no longer exist) you would have 30 plus teams. Plus country teams would not be able to compete and the geography of it doesn't bare thinking about.

#3 Maybe but just keep it to NRL sides. Even then I'm not convinced. It would have to go for four weeks and that is a bit long when there's WCC and other things on.

#4 Nice idea. Can't happen for so many reasons, but it would be good if something like that happened.

#5 NRL expansion, yes. NSW Cup expansion, pipe dream.

#6 NRL expansion, perhaps. Pacific league, pipe dream.

-------------------------

How about this for one.

2013 World Sevens at the start of the year around the same time as the All Stars or WCC, trials etc.

That would be a start.

 

[docbrown]

The country divisions still exist in the CRL, they have rep sides.

That said I think the NSWRL could be reshaped into a comp where there's several permanent Sydney teams from strategic and heritage areas (i.e. Newtown Jets), several teams that get promoted from a lower Sydney group (from what would be a reorganised bunaberg cup i.e. Sydney Metro Cup), several permanent teams representing regional NSW based NRL teams (i.e. united Newcastle Rugby League team, similar in Illawarra, Central Coast, Canberra/South Coast) and 3 other areas that would be affiliated with Sydney teams with small Sydney based junior catchements - Riverina, Central West, New England, plus Northern Rivers affiliated with the Titans.

Each region would have an obvious affiliation to the most logical NRL team out of the 13 NRL teams (current 10 NSW NRL, Bears, Raiders & Titans for Northern Rivers). Regional NRL clubs would have a direct affiliation to all lower clubs in their districts. Sydney NRL clubs would also have direction affiliation to certain Sydney Metro Cup sides and all lower clubs within their own Sydney zones.

Queensland Cup can keep their traditional zoning. NSW & QLD cup games can be sold under a "Challenge Cup" style banner with TV games directed around traditional bowl type rivalry matches. In New Zealand a second tier NZ game could be played before NZ NRL games and televised.

At the end of the year all these individual state comp winners are seeded over the course of late August to early October based on the skill level of the comp (UK Challenge Comp style). These "finals" matches are broadcast with a Challenge Cup (or some other similar type name) game on NRL Grand Final weekend.

 

[docbrown]

Pre-season: can do the 20 minute matches in pools with games held in regional and expansion areas - but the NRL teams can also be joined with another number of teams representing future expansion areas i.e. Central Coast Bears, Central Qld, Christchurch etc - similar to the old AMCO cup. As they're 20 minute matches the scorelines and teams get rests (if they're in groups of 4) so there's recovery time.

Players get match fitness (pools of 4, 60 minutes over 120 minute period). The broadcasters get a preseason structure. Country areas get matches. Future expansion teams get representation. People wanting a knockout cup style tournament get something that harks back to the old days without blowout scorelines.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The country divisions still exist in the CRL, they have rep sides.

That said I think the NSWRL could be reshaped into a comp where there's several permanent Sydney teams from strategic and heritage areas (i.e. Newtown Jets), several teams that get promoted from a lower Sydney group (from what would be a reorganised bunaberg cup i.e. Sydney Metro Cup), several permanent teams representing regional NSW based NRL teams (i.e. united Newcastle Rugby League team, similar in Illawarra, Central Coast, Canberra/South Coast) and 3 other areas that would be affiliated with Sydney teams with small Sydney based junior catchements - Riverina, Central West, New England, plus Northern Rivers affiliated with the Titans.

Each region would have an obvious affiliation to the most logical NRL team out of the 13 NRL teams (current 10 NSW NRL, Bears, Raiders & Titans for Northern Rivers). Regional NRL clubs would have a direct affiliation to all lower clubs in their districts. Sydney NRL clubs would also have direction affiliation to certain Sydney Metro Cup sides and all lower clubs within their own Sydney zones.

No the divisions no longer exist. The 10 divisions have been replaced by six regions. And they don't all have rep sides. Even the ones that do don't have the resources to compete in the NSW Cup and even if they were given the cash by the IC I don't think they would be all that keen. These regions are administered by CRL staff but otherwise run by people from various Groups etc. They cover big areas. The rep players come from various clubs. No one supports rep football, only clubs. I don't see how you can essentially form a regional club side that will attract players, sponsors or fans. It would take a lot of money and even then probably still wouldn't work. Plus, the OP has forgotten about the Qld divisions that are not represented in the Qld Cup, like Wide Bay and South West. They would have to be included if NSW country regions are. We're talking about more than 30 teams costing perhaps 500k a year to run each. Even if it was doable, and I doubt it would be, it would be such a waste of money.

 

[docbrown]

No the divisions no longer exist. The 10 divisions have been replaced by six regions. And they don't all have rep sides. Even the ones that do don't have the resources to compete in the NSW Cup and even if they were given the cash by the IC I don't think they would be all that keen. These regions are administered by CRL staff but otherwise run by people from various Groups etc. They cover big areas. The rep players come from various clubs. No one supports rep football, only clubs. I don't see how you can essentially form a regional club side that will attract players, sponsors or fans. It would take a lot of money and even then probably still wouldn't work. Plus, the OP has forgotten about the Qld divisions that are not represented in the Qld Cup, like Wide Bay and South West. They would have to be included if NSW country regions are. We're talking about more than 30 teams costing perhaps 500k a year to run each. Even if it was doable, and I doubt it would be, it would be such a waste of money.

Oh the six regions were the ones I was referring to but I didn't realise they didn't all compete at the moment, I'm guessing some are just "honourary" then.

I'm not suggesting NSWRL & QRL should merge. The NSWRL could have a 14-16 team comp mixing the locals with reserve grade level players (Canberra, Illawarra, Central Coast, Newcastle comp rep sides), Northern Rivers Titans, New England, Central West, Riverina, Newtown Jets, leaving 5-7 places for Sydney clubs (with a Metro Cup below that).

The QRL could maintain their own franchise system with multiple QRL teams/regions affiliated to the logical NRL team.

There would be no need for QRL teams to play NSWRL team during the home and away season. You just make each state it's own "conference" and broadcast it under the one unified banner - CHALLENGE CUP - or AUSTRALASIA CUP - or something like that.

Once the grand final for the conference are held, during August to first week of October, the winners/best teams from conferences - i.e. WARL, VRL, NSWRL, QRL, NZRL, PNGRL et al - are seeded over 3-4 weeks playing knockout games. This is the only part of the comp that sees extended travel - however the teams participating are GRAND FINAL WINNERS - they will get crowds based on their already established success. The final matches are played and the best two teams play off on NRL Grand Final Week - effectively an NRL "Reserve Grade" Grand Final but without the expense of home and away season travel.

Obviously the ARLC needs to fund this but I believe there's money to be made from the broadcast rights and sponsorship - especially in the country areas that aren't represented at major national level already. It's not a lot of money but it can become enough to be self supporting.

If your a Queenslander and your team isn't there at the NRL Grand Final you might be more inclined to watch though if there's a team in the Challenge Cup Grand Final game before hand.

As for the name, feel free to come up with something better. Really the "Challenge Cup" knockout part only comes in to play at the end of the season but it's just to explain the effect. Every other game though can be promoted under the one banner - CHALLENGE CUP NSW, CHALLENGE CUP NEW ZEALAND, CHALLENGE CUP WA etc

 

[East Coast Tiger]

But these state leagues would cost a heap as well. Flights from Sydney to Brisbane are cheaper than from Sydney to any regional airport, so the travel costs of a national comp would not make it more expensive than the state comps. Provincial area like Newcastle, Illawarra and Canberra could potentially compete in the NSW Cup IF they really wanted to. I'm not sure they would and it would take a lot of money to convince them, not to mention the organisation and other factors. Any other NSW country area would have no hope of running what would essentially be a club side that encompasses the whole region (or whatever) playing at a state league level. Qld may well be the same. If you want a grand grand final between the NSW Cup and Qld Cup winners on NRL grand final day that's fine. Easy done. But extending those competitions to include other clubs from regional areas would be expensive and virtually impossible in many cases. Country areas would love to be handed 500k a year but they wouldn't want to spend it on propping up a state league team.

 

[docbrown]

I think though that having NRL players drop down to reserve grade and then appearing regularly in country areas would actually become a money spinner. Tie the NSWRL cup games in those areas with local group games. Come see NRL stars and your local teams etc, see in person the NSWRL team you get to watch on TV. The players you watched at your local club last year could be playing alongside NRL players.

As for Newcastle, Canberra, Illawarra, well technically they have NSWRL Cup sides already so they've been able to do it on the little funding they've got. I merely suggest that they take on a broad role and that over 20 players mix it up with the best of the local regional comp players that get selected from the previous year.

As for the real 4 country teams, I guess it's 4 flights a week across the season, so it may require more funding but I think they can make it work.

The games broadcast in NSW should focus on derbies. The model I've suggested is akin to the US College Bowl system. So have NEW ENGLAND vs NORTHERN RIVERS, promote it under some cup name, make it an annual event. Get people in those areas reinvigorated with the game.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Sorry mate but it's soooo not a goer. For example, New England is basically just Group 19 and it couldn't compete with a NSW Cup side if it was allowed 20 players on the field. To make it competitive you would have to spend a lot of money and hope to attract players from outside that area to move there and play for the team. Even if it worked and it made them somewhat competitive, it won't be a local team. Throw in an NRL player or two and a few people might come, but if they're not actually good enough for the NRL they're not going to attract huge crowds. And the local derby thing doesn't work because, to use your example, there is no rivalry between New England and Northern Rivers. Honestly if you had the money to spend and you had good players like NRL players to send out to the country you'd be better off sending them to struggling clubs in the local comps for a few games. It already happens with ex-NRL players and it works quite well and brings real benefits. This NSW Cup thing would cost a shit load and I don't think it would achieve very much.

 

[docbrown]

What I was suggesting though, say for example for New England that they become the Roosters' NSW Cup team.

The over 20's player that aren't good enough for the NRL go play for New England rather than being lost in the mire. These players are then joined by the best local players from the local groups from the previous years that the NRL club has identified. Then of course when NRL players get sent down a grade, they also go to New England.

I mean I'm just saying Roosters for the hell of it. It could be any Sydney club in need of developing a large nursery. But the final mix for all clubs is a mix of the best local regional players, over 20's players (the majority) and the NRL level elites who get sent down temporariliy. NRL clubs also get the regularly see the best talent from the country whenever they play. Some players who might have been overlooked can be identified.

As for the rivalry thing, well that stuff grows in time. I mean you could even have divisions to further reduce travel costs. Say South (Riverina, Canberra, Central West, Illawarra), North (Northern Rivers, New England, Hunter, Central Coast) then two Sydney divisions.

There's a multitude of ways of approaching it.

 

[TommyGun]

What I was suggesting though, say for example for New England that they become the Roosters' NSW Cup team.

The over 20's player that aren't good enough for the NRL go play for New England rather than being lost in the mire.

How is this different to the Roosters using Newtown as their NSW Cup side?

 

[East Coast Tiger]

What I was suggesting though, say for example for New England that they become the Roosters' NSW Cup team.

The over 20's player that aren't good enough for the NRL go play for New England rather than being lost in the mire. These players are then joined by the best local players from the local groups from the previous years that the NRL club has identified. Then of course when NRL players get sent down a grade, they also go to New England.

I mean I'm just saying Roosters for the hell of it. It could be any Sydney club in need of developing a large nursery. But the final mix for all clubs is a mix of the best local regional players, over 20's players (the majority) and the NRL level elites who get sent down temporariliy. NRL clubs also get the regularly see the best talent from the country whenever they play. Some players who might have been overlooked can be identified.

As for the rivalry thing, well that stuff grows in time. I mean you could even have divisions to further reduce travel costs. Say South (Riverina, Canberra, Central West, Illawarra), North (Northern Rivers, New England, Hunter, Central Coast) then two Sydney divisions.

There's a multitude of ways of approaching it.

I get what you are saying re sending players from NRL squads back. But in practice this is difficult and coslty. Not to mention the NRL clubs probably wouldn't want to do it.

And local players aren't necessarily going to want to play for these regional teams or be able to - even if they were good enough to play at state cup standard, and most wouldn't be. These regions are big. To play for the regional team they would have to move to wherever the regional team was based, which means finding them a job etc. Or they would have to travel a lot, which many won't want to do. Then you have clubs with some cash who can offer more than the regional side and you have family and other commitments and it all adds up to the fact that the best local players from each region simply won't end up at the state league club. Now, if you want to expand the regions even further to represent the whole of northern NSW or southern NSW that makes the geography even more of a problem. And the more you stretch the regions out the less local the club is. If you have a northern NSW team based in Coffs Harbour no one in New England, Northern Rivers, North West etc will give a toss about them. Even if it was just a North Coast team based at Coffs the chances are people in Port Macquarie or Taree aren't going to give a toss. It's just not doable or worthwhile, not for the cost.

 

[Perth Red]

When we costed up putting a WA Reds side in the NSW cup in 2010 it was going to be close to $1mill a year budget.

Personally I'd love to see NSW and Q'land cup rebranded and turned into a two conference 2nd division. Call it The Australasian Championship or similiar. Two conferences Q'land conf including Wellington and Auckland Vulcans + PNG, and NSW conference including Melbourne and Perth. Conferences play seperately and at the end of the year there is a combined finals series with the top 3 or 4 teams from each conference. Get it on ABC or similiar. 12 teams in each conference, ARLC funds each team $750k a year. Criteria is teams have to either be in an expansion area or a feeder team for an NRL club.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Really? $18,000,000 a year for that? That would be such a waste for something that won't do the game much good or attract much interest. If they wanted to spend that much a year and get some benefit from it they might as well build a new stadium in PNG or start an NRL team in Los Angeles or something. It wouldn't cost any more and it would probably do more good.

 

[lturner]

The most logical move for the second tier is to expand the Queensland Cup to be the main second division league, and include some teams from other areas, like Central Coast Bears or eventually Perth.

The NSW Cup is not the equal of the Queensland Cup and never will be. The Qld Cup clubs have a history as independent first grade clubs. The NSW Cup is nothing more than the reserve grade sides of the Sydney NRL clubs, with 2 notable exceptions - North Sydney and Newtown.

 

[Perth Red]

I'd consider an 18% spend of the extra annual money a good spend for a semi pro 2nd tier that shored up the grass roots of the game, gave a proper development pathway for players, provided expansion areas a route to develop and created a meaningful 2nd tier of RL competition in the australasian region. But then again I think that spending money on grass roots is equally valuable as chucking it at failing NRL clubs. One day I would like to see three conferences with a NZ/PNG/PI conference as well. Dare to dream and all that.

 

[Perth Red]

Expanding on the topic of the next things for the ARLC I would go:

* TV, internet and naming rights deal
* Expansion
* Salary Cap
* Club grants
* Strategic plan for grass roots development in every state and territory
* International game

as the biggies

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I wouldn't consider wasting that amount of money on something that would do sod all for grass roots football in 90% of places a good thing. And there is already a development pathway for players in most places. And it doesn't matter what the second tier looks like it will still be second tier and people won't support it in big numbers. That amount of money would be spent better in, oh, about 18 million better ways.

 

[Perth Red]

other thing I hope they do is produce a proper national annual report with financials.

 

[Rockin Ronny]

other thing I hope they do is produce a proper national annual report with financials.

Wrong. That will simply throw the game into uproar.
That sort of transparency and clarity sets a dangerous precedent. I see absolutely no value in ruby league showing what money it generates and where that money goes and why.

Next, you'll be wanting a strategic vision for the game, a proper TV deal and a truly independent CEO.

Where will it end?