ATTENTION: An important yet quick note to all...

[Cronulla_Mania]

Gday all,

As you can see, the posts are really starting to dry up on LWOS. As we have suggested before, LWOS will always be there for those who wish to use it. However, there has only been 60 posts on LWOS for the week, down a lot on the average of close to 1000 that we used to get

Although i can't speak for everyone, most of us have now turned our attentions to www.leagueunlimited.com

To be more specific, the front row forums. I am 100% confident that most people will find these forums a lot easier to use with more features. For those who have not visited yet (or been too lazy ), it has many of the features of your typical discussion board, including avatars (the little pictures next to your name), as well as a signature that can be put at the bottom of each post. There is a help section as well, so im sure people won't get too lost.

http://www.leagueunlimited.com/phpbb2/index.php

I know change is not always the easiest thing, but the site already has over 120 members and is nearing 4,000 posts in a couple of weeks. Im sure that most people who have been around here for a while would agree that the community we had going was a good one and that we should all work to continuing the success of it into the future.

The LU website and the forums are much more comprehensive, much in the vain of websites such as rleague (but rest assured, there are significant differences ). Much like LWOS, there are individualised sections for each topic, including an AFL section for Kev, eels fan, meltiger etc and a rugby union section for Marcus

The site is growing and all we ask is that people give it a go when they get the chance. There are definitely no obligations to it, LWOS will always be here. But after much deliberation, i think most of us agree that it is the right move into the future, and a stepin the right direction

Cheers all,
Moffo

 

[imported_Lord Ted.]

Moff,
This is the exact point I was making in an earlier thread.
I am disappointed at the ongoing demise of LWOS and f**ked if I reckon the otherjoint is better(admittedly I have only had a few peeps).
Anyway,disappointment I can live with.
This business about change though,really shits me.
O.K.so I don't like it.I have adapted and will continue to adapt to the challenges that society throws up,but that doesn't mean that the changes are for the better.
Ever watch the TV show " The Bill ",well it was a long standing favourite of mine.When my eldest boy was 7 ( he will be 23 soon )he also used to love it.I watched it for years.Anyway they decided to bring in a new cast.
They used change theory to implement the cast.
I was really annoyed.I mean in my workplace I have to suffer this shit,but when they thought it would be a good idea to effect my TV viewing habits I just thought "well you can f**k off " and I haven't watched the Bill since.They did it by the usual means,ie they told the viewers that the previous cast were crooks.This idea of besmirching reputations to implement "change" is crap.Funny enough after having watched the show for so long it had never occurred to me that Sunhill was full of crooks.
Now, I realise that is different from a cyberspace meeting place,but Moff please don't come this f**king bullshit spiel about change.Basically, it is about having to accept something over which one has no control.Such is life.
May LWOS be given a decent burial.
Me, I just feel sad and say hooroo and thankyouto those that made sitting in front of a computer feel personal.It was one of the gems about LWOS.

 

[Willow]

hmmm... You guys are too quick to call on the fat lady.


Moffo:there has only been 60 posts on LWOS for the week, down a lot on the average of close to 1000 that we used to get

We never ever got 1000 posts in the general season. We often capped at around 1000 in the off season. I think the record was about 1300 and that was in December or January. It always dropped away when the other Nine Msn Boards got fired up for the footy season. We had two off-seasons of extraordinary success.

The normal average week here was 300-600 posts.

LordTed,
LWOS will still remain and for all we know, it may develop into something bigger and better than before. IMO, it needs a committed manager to plug it along in the same manner that previous managers did before. These things don't happen by magic... at the very least, it requires regular effort. The job is yours if you wish to put up your hand.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Lord Ted: You have expressed the way I feel about it very well.

Willow: I am not posting this to continue our argument on TFR. But another 1000 post off-season doesn't seem likely, because many of the posters who contributed to that activity are gone to TFR. It may become bigger and better again, as you say, but that will have to be with different people, so it won't be the same. I hope I'm wrong about that, I hope some new managers do come forward and build this place up again.

Moffo: good post, very diplomatic. Your mention of Marcus reminded me we haven't seen him in a while. I hope he returns to the boards here, or at TFR, or both with the internationals and the WC approaching.

 

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

[Broncos-fan-baller]

I am disappointed at the ongoing demise of LWOS and f**ked if I reckon the otherjoint is better (admittedly I have only had a few peeps). Anyway,disappointment I can live with.
This business about change though,really shits me.

My exact feelings Ted. Bloody well said mate.
I'm a member of two other forums that have the same format as TFR and I hate it. Navigation is friggin nightmare among posts and threads. And among other bullshit (no posts numbered, no all messages page, etc, there is this crap about posts counts. Whoopi f**king doo! You always get those selected few who posts junk just to get their 15 minutes. I see TFR is already suffering from that.f**k that shit!
I'm quite content to sit here on my own and wait for this forum to kick off again. If it does great. If it doesn't, I'll manage to get by.
I wish those from here that have made the transition over toTFRthe very best though. I'll miss you all.
May LWOS be given a decent burial. Me, I just feel sad and say hooroo and thankyouto those that made sitting in front of a computer feel personal.It was one of the gems about LWOS.
Amen!
'fan-baller

 

[CanadianSteve]

http://www.leagueunlimited.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=249&start=25BFB and LT: I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels that way. However, if you go over there and post those sentiments, they won't be well received.
http://www.leagueunlimited.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=249&start=25

 

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

[Willow]

Willow: I am not posting this to continue our argument on TFR. But another 1000 post off-season doesn't seem likely, because many of the posters who contributed to that activity are gone to TFR

We used to get 1000+ in the off season. I said that for Moffo's benefit. I never said we were going to get 1000+ again. Read what I said. Stop worrying people contributing to TFR... its not as if they were dragged off kicking and screaming.

If we get up around 300-600 per week, then LWOS will be active again.
Thats what I said.

It may become bigger and better again, as you say, but that will have to be with different people, so it won't be the same. I hope I'm wrong about that, I hope some new managers do come forward and build this place up again.
Whats wrong with new people coming in a building up LWOS? It seems that you''ll be happy if everyone at TFR comes back to LWOS to keep you company. You're a hard man to please.

Forums are diverse places and LWOS is one of the most diverse. We had different contributors all the time.

As for Marcus, he had very little to do with LWOS and hasn't been around for many months.

Your last post in particular indicates that you are still trying unsettle people with all this. You still want the majority to yield to your view. You still think that there was something 'bad' done to you. You're turning this into some ridiculous personal crusade.

I was a pretty hard worker here at LWOS and it was difficult to agree to the move. But when people took to TFR so willingly, I could see that the vast majority approved of the development. I was willing to put aside my own petty gripes and put my energies into the new format. Moffo will attest that managers were advocating the deletion of LWOS while I fought out to stop that happening. For a while,I thought I was the only one trying to save LWOS. The main reason while its still here at all is because Legend and I wouldn't allow that to happen.

But NineMsn won't be here forever. The day will come when they will want us to pay for the space and the right to watch their bleeding adverts. By setting up a new forum, we are simply re-gaining the control over the life of the community. We had no such control over this NineMsn format.

The fact people have taken to the new TFR like ducks to water should be testimony that the right decison was made and that we are thinking for the long term.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

It was obvious that not everyone prefers TFR, that is exactly why LWOS is still here. Ted, it was no spiel. It was the fact that the majority of us felt that going over to TFR was a step in the right direction. But its a personal thing, i can 100% appreciate your viewpoint on it. But i have my view on ninemsn as well, and that is that its bloody hard to navigate, slow to use, unreliable and very plain. I have always thought that. But as i said, not everyone agrees with that and i would be sort of scared if everyone did!
Change is a part of life. No one is forced to accept change though, that is why we live in a democracy. But as you say, its only a discussion board, and at the end of the day i struggle to become deep and philosophical when i know im only talking about a bloody chat area!

BFB - Its up to you mate. Id just like to hope that most of us could stick together going on to the new boards. Personally, i think you would get used it after a while but as i said, its entirely your choice as to what you do

Willow did want to keep the doors open at LWOS,i will grant him that. I think in hindsight it was a good move, for people such as Ted,BFB and Steve who obviously prefer this place.

All i ask is that you try to appreciate where we are coming from. We have been using ninemsn boards for years now (well some of us), from the days of rleague and then the last 2 glorious years at LWOS. The fact is, some of us believe thatwe haven't been able to grow as much as we felt we could've due to the fact that a lot of people don't like the ninemsn boards. When we have had an influx of people from time to time, very few of them stayed, and at least some of us always put it down to the design of the boards.

LU (IMO), is a fully functional website that has news, tips, discussion boards and even merchandise sections. It offers so much more then a simple messageboard. But thats just my opinion, and i know that not all people will necessarily agree with that

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Willow]

Canadian Steve: "BFB and LT: I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels that way. However, if you go over there and post those sentiments, they won't be well received."

Lord Ted and BFB:
I hasten to add that you are more than welcomed to post anythingyou like at TFR. Its not up Canadian Steve what sort of reaction you may get there.

For weeks now, the bloke has been like a mangy dog that won't let go... and you can be sure that he'll be at it for weeks to come. I have explained our position a dozen times to him but to no avail. The final straw was when he accused me of being ingenuous in my efforts and thats when I let him have both barrells.The constantwhinging was one thing but when he stared coming out with utter bullshit, I figured enough was enough. Short of apologising for his insults, he instead had a childish sulk and made smart-arse remarks about not being allowed to ask questions.

It seems that he won't be happy until everyone returns to LWOS.... and thats not going to happen because the majority of folk there are comfortable with the set up.

It needs to be said again; It's the people that make up the community who are important... not the style of the message board.

LT and BFB, its entirely up to yourselves but if you giveTFR a go and try out the different functions, you'll soon see that its quite easy to navigate around. There are a number of features including 'view all posts since last visit' (a link when you log in at the top of the webpage) which makes TFR very easy to use. Alternatively, you can just go to a favourite section and read some posts.
There's also edit functions, a personal message system, sig files and avatars plus a load of other features. Its different to the NineMsn format at LWOS but in many ways, it's superior.

You're most welcomed to visit and ask any questions you like. If you don't want to try it out, thats fine too. I'll still be hanging out here from time to time and despite the protagonistic antics of Canadian Steve, we haven't abandoned LWOS.

 

[Willow]

Correction:
ingenuous (sp) should have been disingenuous.
That is, he accused me of trying to pull a swifty.
No edit function here at NineMsn.

 

[El Duque]

I can't understand how people would like these ninemsn boards.

IMO they are the worst forums on the net.

 

[CanadianSteve]

What steve doesn't tell you is that hes been moaning since day 1.
Which is what, a week ago?
Post # 8 Bronco
If you don't like the place then don't post there. I don't like the place as much as I used to like this place, but I'm getting used to it, and posting fairly often.That's ok, isn't it?
Everyone else is enjoying the place and having a good time, bugger it if I should feel guilty for wanting to post there.
Good, don't feel guilty. I never said you should.

Steve if you represent the attitude of this place then I don't think I'll be bothering to post here anymore. I only represent myself. Lord Ted and Broncos-fan-baller made much stronger comments than I have. Why don't you react to them?

 

[legend]

Not much more to say really. There are people who are for and against and I'll be the first to admit I have an emotional attachment to LWOS but it's was always about the people more than anything else.

My problems are two fold. One is I can't access LWOS during work hours. My work puts a ban on all MSN communities which means I am hamstrung for eight of my waking hours.

The other and I make no excuses for this is we want to be the best League website on the net and to dothat we have to be a one stop shop and LWOS takes people away from the site affecting our viability over the long term.

There is no reason why a LWOS section can't becreated in the new forums just for those LWOS people and you can post whatever you like, regardless of thetopic. I'd be happy to participate in that.

Lord Ted and BFB, guys, I enjoy reading both your work and it would be a shame to see you lost to LWOS and LU. LWOS will still be here for the reference side of things because there is just too much good stuff to lose.

At the end of the day the decision is up to the individual and I'll resepct yours either way.

 

[imported_Lord Ted.]

Moff,
"it offers so much more than a simple message board".
Well for me a simple message board is where it is at.Technological wizardry is something I do not possess.Some of the "features" you have listed I have never heard of, much less any idea of their advantages or how to access them and more importantly how to use them.
O.K. I admit to being a computer cretin and I am still the slowest typist in history,but I figure that was reasonable on a simple message board.
I am only expressing my thoughts on the issue.
Basically put, it is blatantly obvious the other joint has something that this place doesn't.So be it.
I do not understand the workings of the business side of things and have made no attempt to do so.
People exercising preferences, fair enough.
I mean no offence to anyone (and if I did you would know it),nevertheless it is good to see that CS and BFB will be around.
I do think that this place had become a tad stale and there were hardly any new contributors and as Willow said,when there were they did not hang around.
Really all I am doing is lamenting the passing of a simple message board.

 

[Willow]

We have now got a LWOS section at the very top of the TFR message board. This was proposed by TFR forummer, Blade. Legend then created the forum and I've started a thread the LWOS Hall of Fame link. It was all fairly spontaneous and was always going to happen.

IMO, it will give people a link back to LWOS and maybe a few new members will come over as well. A lot of people who contribute to TFR have never even of heard of LWOS. If they come in and pay a visit, I trust our Canadian cousin will make them feel welcomed.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Whats wrong with new people coming in a building up LWOS? Nothing wrong with it, I just said it wouldn't be the same. It seems that you''ll be happy if everyone at TFR comes back to LWOS to keep you company. You're a hard man to please. I can see that's not going to happen. That's why I've been posting on TFR sometimes.

Forums are diverse places and LWOS is one of the most diverse. We had different contributors all the time.

As for Marcus, he had very little to do with LWOS and hasn't been around for many months. So what? I didn't say Marcus had a lot to do with LWOS, I just said I hope he comes back and posts about union again as I enjoyed his posts.

Your last post in particular indicates that you are still trying unsettle people with all this. You still want the majority to yield to your view. You still think that there was something 'bad' done to you. You're turning this into some ridiculous personal crusade. A very dramatic statement. I know the majority aren't going to yield to my view. I've just been trying to express my view. I don't think something bad was done to me, I just felt sad and disappointed, as Lord Ted said, when I saw what was happening.

I was a pretty hard worker here at LWOS and it was difficult to agree to the move.
No, you were the hardest worker, the most prolific poster, and the smartest guy around.
But when people took to TFR so willingly, I could see that the vast majority approved of the development. I was willing to put aside my own petty gripes and put my energies into the new format. Moffo will attest that managers were advocating the deletion of LWOS while I fought out to stop that happening. For a while,I thought I was the only one trying to save LWOS. The main reason while its still here at all is because Legend and I wouldn't allow that to happen. I think the forum should be re-named WLWOS in honour of that contribution. That is Willow and Legend's WOS.

But NineMsn won't be here forever. The day will come when they will want us to pay for the space and the right to watch their bleeding adverts. By setting up a new forum, we are simply re-gaining the control over the life of the community. We had no such control over this NineMsn format
May I interrupt this debate, or whatever it is, to ask a serious question? Not smart-arse, not trying to be funny, just curious. Does the provider of the Front Row forum do it for free? If so, what do they get out of it? And will the arrangement stay the way it is forever?

Also, what lack of control was there with MSN and LWOS. It seemed to me that anything went, and I couldn't see evidence of control from MSN. Nothing like Dale C.'s control at TFS.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Lord Ted and BFB:
I hasten to add that you are more than welcomed to post anythingyou like at TFR. Its not up Canadian Steve what sort of reaction you may get there. No, I merely said what type of reaction they'd get if they went there and posted similar sentiments to those they did here in this thread.

For weeks now, the bloke has been like a mangy dog that won't let go... and you can be sure that he'll be at it for weeks to come. Maybe not that long.
I have explained our position a dozen times to him but to no avail. So if you explain your position enough times, then the person has to come around and agree with it?
The final straw was when he accused me of being ingenuous in my efforts and thats when I let him have both barrells.The constantwhinging was one thing but when he stared coming out with utter bullshit, I figured enough was enough. Short of apologising for his insults, he instead had a childish sulk and made smart-arse remarks about not being allowed to ask questions. Just to clarify the last bit, Willow said something like: I had had more questions answered than anyone else, and so I shouldn't complain about TFR. I didn't think the 2 things were connected, so I made a sarcastic comment about how many questions am I allowed to ask, anyway.

It seems that he won't be happy until everyone returns to LWOS.... and thats not going to happen because the majority of folk there are comfortable with the set up. I dealt with this idea in my previous post.

If they come in and pay a visit, I trust our Canadian cousin will make them feel welcomed.Sure I will, I haven't gone to see the new section yet, but I look forward to it, as I said on TFR earlier. Also, in my very small way, I have tried to make people feel welcome, and get some discussion going, in the basketball section to which I have been entrusted over there.
I'm a little mystified by the abuse I'm copping over all this, but hey, at least it's adding to the post count here. Nothing like a good "stoush", as Gav used to call it.

In closing, Moffo's words from an earlier post here make a good perspective: But as you say, its only a discussion board, and at the end of the day i struggle to become deep and philosophical when i know im only talking about a bloody chat area!

 

[Willow]

Does the provider of the Front Row forum do it for free? If so, what do they get out of it? And will the arrangement stay the way it is forever?

By provider, I assume you mean League Unlimited. Our Internet Service Provider costs money but thats for the whole website: LU, the tipping comp, the chat room, the live updates etc... and TFR.

LU set up TFR so we could have a forum attached to the website. Its just commonsense to have a forums section on a website.
Its now a permanent arrangement. In fact, we are even looking having our own ISP to mimimise down times and speed up the connection. Thats the ultimate aim and as soon the resources become available, we'll be heading in that direction.

"Also, what lack of control was there with MSN and LWOS. It seemed to me that anything went, and I couldn't see evidence of control from MSN. Nothing like Dale C.'s control at TFS."

With respect, you're looking at it purely from a moderator standpoint. DaleC is an employee of NineMsn and apart from having admin level control, he has no more control over what NineMsn does with their forums then you or I.
Theowners could decide to shut down the forums and there's not a thing we can do about it. If or when that does happen, it will be done for commercial considerations - which is fine, they're a business afterall.
The difference with LU owning TFR is that we would never close down TFR purely onfinancial grounds. We'd fight to make it work.

Perhaps that puts you more in the light.