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Australian third test side.

yappy

Bench
Messages
4,161
The Ashes are lost. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a f**king dreamer. The same sort of dreamer who though North would find a way to get past 20, the same sort of dreamer who thought Johnson would develop control and an inswinger, the same sort of dreamer who thought Siddle would turn into a great attacking opening bowler. Yeah it might happen, but the odds aren't good. We're seeing the same sort of dreaming with Ponting. He's been a long long way short of his best for 3 years now. We're all dreaming he'll get back the magic any day now. It might happen but the odds are against it.

Those dreamers looked at the result of the last ashes and thought we didn't need to make any changes to an aging and struggling side other than dropping our admittedly modest offie and replacing him with an even more modest left arm ortho.

The dreamers may have got it right hanging on to Hussey for 3 years until he finally turned in some consistent scores, but f**k he's had a lot of luck to make it. That edge off the 1st ball in Brisbane carries just a few inches further and he wouldn't even be in the side today. Not given plumb LB on 85 and then dropped again on 3 in Adelaide. The luck finally went his way for a while, but it'll turn against him and then what?

For us to win the Ashes would take a turn around almost unprecedented in cricket. The only similar turn around I can think of would be the Indians turn around to win in 2001 after losing the first test and being forced to follow on in the second. That is the sort of level of bullsh*t, where the f**k did that come from? turn around in fortunes we're talking about to win here. That Indian side had Laxman, Tendulkar and Dravid in their prime along with Harbhajan having his best ever series in conditions tailor made for him. We don't have those players, nor will we have that much luck.

We are where we are now because too many dreamers have been hoping that miracles would occur. England didn't come here dreaming of winning the Ashes. They came planning to win it. They've been building this team for about 5 years. They've brought in a tough no-nonsense coach who knows what it takes to succeed despite the odds. They've qualified some talented yaapies, they've developed some good young bowlers and a fine young opener. They've stuck with some hard heads and improved their fielding out of sight. This is a very good team against us and dreaming of a complete turn around in fortunes isn't very likely to slow them down as they roll over the top of us. Whatever we throw at them, this England side is almost 100% certain to find a way to overcome.

And the worst thing that could possibly happen would be for the dreamers to be have their dreams come true. Just imagine the problems we will sweep under the carpet if by some miracle Ponting slams a double ton and Johnson has one of his rare days out and they win us a test? We'll still have players in the side for years to come who fail consistently but we hang on to because we're dreaming they might one day repeat the heroic comeback of the 10/11 Ashes.

Far better for mine to simply accept the Ashes are England's and we simply aren't good enough at this point to do much about it. Let's start putting together a side that will have a good shot in 2013 and will trounce them in 14/15.
 

butchmcdick

Post Whore
Messages
51,838
The Ashes are lost. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a f**king dreamer. The same sort of dreamer who though North would find a way to get past 20, the same sort of dreamer who thought Johnson would develop control and an inswinger, the same sort of dreamer who thought Siddle would turn into a great attacking opening bowler. Yeah it might happen, but the odds aren't good. We're seeing the same sort of dreaming with Ponting. He's been a long long way short of his best for 3 years now. We're all dreaming he'll get back the magic any day now. It might happen but the odds are against it.

Those dreamers looked at the result of the last ashes and thought we didn't need to make any changes to an aging and struggling side other than dropping our admittedly modest offie and replacing him with an even more modest left arm ortho.

The dreamers may have got it right hanging on to Hussey for 3 years until he finally turned in some consistent scores, but f**k he's had a lot of luck to make it. That edge off the 1st ball in Brisbane carries just a few inches further and he wouldn't even be in the side today. Not given plumb LB on 85 and then dropped again on 3 in Adelaide. The luck finally went his way for a while, but it'll turn against him and then what?

For us to win the Ashes would take a turn around almost unprecedented in cricket. The only similar turn around I can think of would be the Indians turn around to win in 2001 after losing the first test and being forced to follow on in the second. That is the sort of level of bullsh*t, where the f**k did that come from? turn around in fortunes we're talking about to win here. That Indian side had Laxman, Tendulkar and Dravid in their prime along with Harbhajan having his best ever series in conditions tailor made for him. We don't have those players, nor will we have that much luck.

We are where we are now because too many dreamers have been hoping that miracles would occur. England didn't come here dreaming of winning the Ashes. They came planning to win it. They've been building this team for about 5 years. They've brought in a tough no-nonsense coach who knows what it takes to succeed despite the odds. They've qualified some talented yaapies, they've developed some good young bowlers and a fine young opener. They've stuck with some hard heads and improved their fielding out of sight. This is a very good team against us and dreaming of a complete turn around in fortunes isn't very likely to slow them down as they roll over the top of us. Whatever we throw at them, this England side is almost 100% certain to find a way to overcome.

And the worst thing that could possibly happen would be for the dreamers to be have their dreams come true. Just imagine the problems we will sweep under the carpet if by some miracle Ponting slams a double ton and Johnson has one of his rare days out and they win us a test? We'll still have players in the side for years to come who fail consistently but we hang on to because we're dreaming they might one day repeat the heroic comeback of the 10/11 Ashes.

Far better for mine to simply accept the Ashes are England's and we simply aren't good enough at this point to do much about it. Let's start putting together a side that will have a good shot in 2013 and will trounce them in 14/15.

If you subsitute the word dreamer for selector I think you have got it spot on
 

butchmcdick

Post Whore
Messages
51,838
The return of Johnson appears inevitable after he was told to rest from the Sheffield Shield match between Western Australia and Queensland, beginning in Brisbane on Friday. Harris, Australia's best bowler in the innings defeat to England in the second Test, was cleared of injury on Thursday after visiting a specialist.
While his troublesome right knee is holding up well after early problems with swelling following mid-year cartilage surgery, his lack of bowling appears to be taking a toll. But Australia physiotherapist Alex Kountouris was optimisitc about his chacnes of selection.
"He is expected to be available for selection in for the third Test in Perth," Kountouris said, describing Harris's injury as minor.
"He was able to bowl during the game unrestricted and scans have cleared him of any significant damage."
Doug Bollinger's lack of fitness looks set to cost him a place after Ricky Ponting claimed the left-arm speedster "hit the wall" during two days of bowling under the hot Adelaide sun.
Ben Hilfenhaus also looks certain to return with his ability to bowl consistent outswing into the Fremantle doctor.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket...-harris-in-doubt/story-e6frf3gl-1225968012759

So more of the same then
 

chefman21

Juniors
Messages
1,220
The Ashes are lost. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a f**king dreamer. The same sort of dreamer who though North would find a way to get past 20, the same sort of dreamer who thought Johnson would develop control and an inswinger, the same sort of dreamer who thought Siddle would turn into a great attacking opening bowler. Yeah it might happen, but the odds aren't good. We're seeing the same sort of dreaming with Ponting. He's been a long long way short of his best for 3 years now. We're all dreaming he'll get back the magic any day now. It might happen but the odds are against it.

Those dreamers looked at the result of the last ashes and thought we didn't need to make any changes to an aging and struggling side other than dropping our admittedly modest offie and replacing him with an even more modest left arm ortho.

The dreamers may have got it right hanging on to Hussey for 3 years until he finally turned in some consistent scores, but f**k he's had a lot of luck to make it. That edge off the 1st ball in Brisbane carries just a few inches further and he wouldn't even be in the side today. Not given plumb LB on 85 and then dropped again on 3 in Adelaide. The luck finally went his way for a while, but it'll turn against him and then what?

For us to win the Ashes would take a turn around almost unprecedented in cricket. The only similar turn around I can think of would be the Indians turn around to win in 2001 after losing the first test and being forced to follow on in the second. That is the sort of level of bullsh*t, where the f**k did that come from? turn around in fortunes we're talking about to win here. That Indian side had Laxman, Tendulkar and Dravid in their prime along with Harbhajan having his best ever series in conditions tailor made for him. We don't have those players, nor will we have that much luck.

We are where we are now because too many dreamers have been hoping that miracles would occur. England didn't come here dreaming of winning the Ashes. They came planning to win it. They've been building this team for about 5 years. They've brought in a tough no-nonsense coach who knows what it takes to succeed despite the odds. They've qualified some talented yaapies, they've developed some good young bowlers and a fine young opener. They've stuck with some hard heads and improved their fielding out of sight. This is a very good team against us and dreaming of a complete turn around in fortunes isn't very likely to slow them down as they roll over the top of us. Whatever we throw at them, this England side is almost 100% certain to find a way to overcome.

And the worst thing that could possibly happen would be for the dreamers to be have their dreams come true. Just imagine the problems we will sweep under the carpet if by some miracle Ponting slams a double ton and Johnson has one of his rare days out and they win us a test? We'll still have players in the side for years to come who fail consistently but we hang on to because we're dreaming they might one day repeat the heroic comeback of the 10/11 Ashes.

Far better for mine to simply accept the Ashes are England's and we simply aren't good enough at this point to do much about it. Let's start putting together a side that will have a good shot in 2013 and will trounce them in 14/15.
Exactly. The simple fact of the matter is we don't have the players available that can win the Ashes. David Hussey isn't a world beater, Hodge has retired and is just one player while guys like Klinger, Clark and co are just bit part players and stop gap solutions. These guys have got 2 maybe 3 years tops and then what? We just end up in the same position we are already in. There is more to building a cricket side to averages and strike rates. You need to build character and comradeship in the team. That's developed over years not 6 months. We have a veritable plethora of talent available to us, so let's get them in the side and develop their cricketing skills and their mental qualities. Let's hunt down that next core group of players that will keep Australian cricket strong for the next 20 years. Not the next 2.
 

Scarves

Juniors
Messages
612
Got to agree - bringing in youngsters is effectively waiving the white flag - the time to do that was against the weaker countries, when your current bunch was scrambling unconvincing wins. If you are to win back the Ashes (I don't think you can) it will be on the back of key players (Watson, Ponting, Clarke, Haddin) and hardened professional cricketers... some are talking up Hodge and D Hussey - that would be how I'd go too. But bowlers, well quite simply the ones you've used need to bowl better

Aside from all that, the young bunch have shown minimal evidence that they're world beaters anyway!! Seems to me (and has done for a while) that you're just assuming (like the WIndies did) that you'll just produce crop after crop of champions - simply won't happen... Australia have not always been #1, and wont be for some time now I suspect


I have to absolutely agree. Bowlers win matches, and in 10 days of full cricket over two tests we've taken 16 wickets. Two of those wickets were in Englands second innings where Strauss charged up the pitch and KP was going the tonk. So really we've taken 14 serious wickets so far. Our current crop are the best we have got, they have to start working like a unit or get embarrassed further. Personally I can't see a way back.

My view is the fault for this predicament lay soley at the feet of Cricket Australia. They pick the selectors, they choose the captain. Ponting scored the captaincy too early in his career, Michael Clarke has been a sitting duck vice captain from a young age. The best vice caps are always keepers while Ponting should have got the captaincy after a period of Shane Warne leadership.

Since Ponting's early ascension I've felt the balance of the team has been out of kilter. Even when we were still dominating on the back of Warne and McGrath. Selections since the 2006/07 Ashes have had no obvious plan. Opportunities to blood new talent against test minnows have been blatantly missed, this appears to be due to Ricky getting his way with keeping the status quo. Young blokes seemingly get talked up and gazzump Shield stalwarts without any significant First Class record behind them. All rounders are transformed into openers, openers tranformed into middle order heroes. Spinners are selected for the sake of it or basically because history says Australia always has one. Class bowlers like Stuart Clark are discarded because of age just when the attack needs disciplined leadership, and all the while the experienced Brad Hodge couldn't get a crack while plundering local attacks.

On top of that there is no obvious leader to take over from Ponting because they put all their cakes into the Clarke basket, doing him no favours in the process.

When I take all this into account, instead of a representative team which the Aussie side should be, it smells more of a local mates team with no accountability. Ponting sadly the great batsman he was is losing credibility, one minute he's not a selector, the next he argues for Doherty to start in Brisbane. We've become amateurish, there was always going to be a let down after McGrath, Warne, Hayden, Gilchrist etc went into the nether, but this fall into the abyss (ie losing to England at Adelaide by more an innings plus runs) has become outrageous, other cricketing nations are watching the self destruction in bewilderment.

This is worse than anything we experienced in the mid 1980's. During that period we had a rebel tour to contend with on top of retirements... our current predicament is self made.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Although it's probably already been reported here, but Johnson has been sounded out for a recall.

His performance in the nets must have been stellar/ What a f**king joke. The guy needs 2-3 months in State cricket to get his game right, not a week in the nets. This is f**king ludicrous.

Hilfenhaus has to be the first bowler picked, purely because he can bowl into the wind and get good swing, both massive attributes when playing at Perth.

Bollinger, while I'm a fan of his, bowled like sh*t in Adelaide.

Harris is under an injury cloud and will probably be dumped so that Johnson can get a recall.

Doherty won't play in Perth. If he can't have any impact in Adelaide then he's never going to in Australia.

I'd like to see:
1 - Hughes
2 - Hussey
3 - Ponting
4 - Clarke
5 - Watson
6 - Khwaja
7 - Haddin
8 - North
9 - Siddle
10 - Hilfenhaus
11 - Bollinger
12th - Johnson

If Harris is fit, I'd have him in the side in place of Siddle, but I doubt he'll be ruled fit.

North can be the token spinner, lets face he's performing better than nearly every other Aussie bowler. He can keep bowling til either he f**ks that up too, or until his batting comes good again, whichever comes first.

Watson down the order purely so he can bowl more overs, he will have to bowl more at the WACA, that's a given.

Personally I think that's about as strong a side as we could possibly field. Hope to all hell we can bat first, then bat with patience, none of this trying to score at 4 an over bullsh*t.

I'd rather 600 runs scored over 2 full days as opposed to 260 runs in half a days play.

Bowling really needs to step up, thats been even more horrendous. Bowlers need to have a pre-conceived plan BEFORE the game.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
152,778
Foxsports are reporting that Harris has passed his fitness test and will play.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
153,171
The Ashes are lost. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a f**king dreamer. The same sort of dreamer who though North would find a way to get past 20, the same sort of dreamer who thought Johnson would develop control and an inswinger, the same sort of dreamer who thought Siddle would turn into a great attacking opening bowler. Yeah it might happen, but the odds aren't good. We're seeing the same sort of dreaming with Ponting. He's been a long long way short of his best for 3 years now. We're all dreaming he'll get back the magic any day now. It might happen but the odds are against it.

Those dreamers looked at the result of the last ashes and thought we didn't need to make any changes to an aging and struggling side other than dropping our admittedly modest offie and replacing him with an even more modest left arm ortho.

The dreamers may have got it right hanging on to Hussey for 3 years until he finally turned in some consistent scores, but f**k he's had a lot of luck to make it. That edge off the 1st ball in Brisbane carries just a few inches further and he wouldn't even be in the side today. Not given plumb LB on 85 and then dropped again on 3 in Adelaide. The luck finally went his way for a while, but it'll turn against him and then what?

For us to win the Ashes would take a turn around almost unprecedented in cricket. The only similar turn around I can think of would be the Indians turn around to win in 2001 after losing the first test and being forced to follow on in the second. That is the sort of level of bullsh*t, where the f**k did that come from? turn around in fortunes we're talking about to win here. That Indian side had Laxman, Tendulkar and Dravid in their prime along with Harbhajan having his best ever series in conditions tailor made for him. We don't have those players, nor will we have that much luck.

We are where we are now because too many dreamers have been hoping that miracles would occur. England didn't come here dreaming of winning the Ashes. They came planning to win it. They've been building this team for about 5 years. They've brought in a tough no-nonsense coach who knows what it takes to succeed despite the odds. They've qualified some talented yaapies, they've developed some good young bowlers and a fine young opener. They've stuck with some hard heads and improved their fielding out of sight. This is a very good team against us and dreaming of a complete turn around in fortunes isn't very likely to slow them down as they roll over the top of us. Whatever we throw at them, this England side is almost 100% certain to find a way to overcome.

And the worst thing that could possibly happen would be for the dreamers to be have their dreams come true. Just imagine the problems we will sweep under the carpet if by some miracle Ponting slams a double ton and Johnson has one of his rare days out and they win us a test? We'll still have players in the side for years to come who fail consistently but we hang on to because we're dreaming they might one day repeat the heroic comeback of the 10/11 Ashes.

Far better for mine to simply accept the Ashes are England's and we simply aren't good enough at this point to do much about it. Let's start putting together a side that will have a good shot in 2013 and will trounce them in 14/15.
Great post mate :clap:
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Foxsports are reporting that Harris has passed his fitness test and will play.
awesome!

My preferred test side would then be:

1 - Hughes
2 - Hussey
3 - Ponting
4 - Clarke
5 - Watson
6 - Khwaja
7 - Haddin
8 - North
9 - Harris
10 - Hilfenhaus
11 - Bollinger
12th - Siddle
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Your selectors F*cked over Brad Hodge. How the F*ck he didn't come into the team when Martyn pulled the plug is beyond everyone rational person. Hodge is in great form atm too.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
After Langer, Hayden, Hussey - even Martyn/Gilchrist to a certain extent - success when comming in or comming back in very late 20's or 30 - there seemed to be a policy of selecting maturer cricketers. But how did you stuff up the Hodge so much?
 

beads6

First Grade
Messages
6,162
Hodges is a poor mans Ricky Ponting. Although he got a double century I still didn't think he looked like he belonged in test cricket. Heck even Gillespie got a double century
 

aussies1st

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,154
Hughes, Khawaja and Smith in particular were bashing the doors down at the end of last year. We should have been playing them then when they were in form. Hughes got an unbeaten 80 filling in and then got dropped again - he could have made a pile against the Kiwis and Pakis, and even in India he probably would have prospered with no real short pitched threat. Massive missed opportunity for the future.

We brought in Smith for Haurie against Pakistan, he didn't set the world on fire with the ball but when he was called on he took 3/51. Had a few failures with the bat, but also came out and smashed a quick fire 77 in his last dig. It wasn't the worst move to bring Haurie back for India, but why not leave Smith in and drop North? Sure North scored a career saving ton, but did nothing else and we lost both tests anyway. Smith could have got some more valuable experience and be looking to establish himself as a test player, instead we're at the point where we have to drop North anyway - what exactly did we gain from not dropping his sorry arse at the end (or midway through) of last summer?

The only way to find out if the young guys are ready is to play them. If they are any good then they'll raise their games to a higher level than playing in the Shield ever would.

Totally agree, Smith was coming off the back of a 100 and a 7 fer when the 1st Test in NZ began. That was the time to throw him into the side as a batter. I was calling for it at the time but as you know we went North and the rest is history.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
153,171
Hodge a great player on good decks, but as soon as there was any sideways movement there where more Nicks than a greek resturant.But in saying that

Hodge>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> North by a long way.
 

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