Banks

[legend]

Moffo, I don't think it's as easy as all that. People can't simply vote with their feet if they have a mortgage in uncertain times. I would consider that to be financially irresponsible.

Sometimes third party arrangements preclude a person from leaving their bank. What if they were a small business and their business partners only did business with the Commonwealth? You'd be cutting your nose off despite your face. And that's is how the banks win. They know they have you over a barrell and sometimes the costs associated with leaving far outweigh the anger one feels when they shut down another branch. You have to choose carefully in the first place.

 

[Willow]

"Ahhh...Re: Post 28 Willow...I don't know if you have the inside knowledge in the Qantas/Ansett/AirSheep debacle, but i find it surprising (if u don't have the info) that you could draw that conclusion."
mate..I don't have inside knowledge, it was on the news - both TV and radio, ABC and Channel 9.
Are you saying that Corporations don't collude?

I already said that Ansett had dug their own grave before AirNZ got hold of them. All I'm saying is that in the end, it happened with profit in mind. Surely thats the name of the game.... isnt it?

"Qantas had the lions share of the market, it had always been that way..."
Not so, Qantas were not a domestic carrier until about 10 years ago.

"Why would Qantas be so keen to polish off Ansett when they had other carriers such as Virgin entering the market."
I would have thought the coming of Virgin would expediate the demise of Ansett.

 

[Willow]

"Think about it, you are not forced to be in a bank!"
In a way we are. Have you tried living without a bank account? Try it.

As far as I know, the tax department takes a very dim view of anyone who doesnt have a bank account.

 

[Willow]

Sorry, Moffo, are you talking about NOT having a bank at all or are you saying that we have the right to choose, dare I say, which bank?

If its the latter, then Legend is right. Try and change your bank and see how much hassle it is. Then imagine it with a home loan and/or a car loan. Refinacing is a very expensive business.

Better still, try and get rid of a credit card (which are usually with the same bank)... I had tobe Houdini to close my Mastercard account with Westpac. On one ocassion, they even illegally reactivated it.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

I think it was best summed up when Legend said "You have to choose carefully in the first place". As i said before, most people who complain don't have the knowledge. And that is a problem. Most people never get a thorough education on the finance/banking industry and what not to do when investing. Thats not their fault, perhaps more attention should be paid to it in school. A lot of people would leave school without knowing the 4 major banks and what an interest rate is. There was not 1 compulsory 'financial' subject at school, and id think its one of the more important life skills that you can learn.I guess all im saying is that it would be handy if you knew your way around the bank a little bit and how they operate. Bit more important than knowing how to perform a solioquoy in front of 4 people, wouldn't u say?? (my opinion anyways, i love drama lol)

I take the point though, once your locked in....well, your locked. in. Can't do a lot about that. Am i saying that corporations don't collude? No. Am I saying that both of us don't have proof that Qantas and AirNZ colluded? Yes. Can't say i knew about the recent intro of Qantas as a domestic carrier. Didn't they start off doing domestic trips in Queensland and NT??

Living without a bank account? Well, if i had the money (Which i definitely don't at the moment lol), it would be interesting to try. Id say that its a convenience, but it depends on its use. I wouldn't use it for investing my savings, that would be the last thing i would do. Putting a couple of grand in an account at 3%pa is a waste of time. I can see myself entering into other investments when i get the money. As for paying bills, id agree its a convenience. The ATO can't really do much as long as you can prove where all your money is coming/going. For instance, if i put 80% of my money in bonds, the ATOshouldn't have any problem with it. Why would they take a dim view? And even if they did, wouldn't it be fair to say that they could do sweet FA unless they could prove something?

I was talking about changing banks though. If you don't like Westpac, you could always use a more customer friendly service such as Bendigo Bank, or if you were pissed off at the low rates, something such as HSBC. But as i said, thats only if your not locked in with big repayments

Moffo

 

[Willow]

Qantas may have started off as a domestic carrier when they began services between Winton and Longreach in 1921 but with the arrival of Ansett in the 1930s and TAA in the 1940s, they were restricted to international travel only. This was the case up until about 10 years back... actually it might have been less than 10 years ago.

I remember being on a Qantas flight from London-Sydney and the plane stopped over in Melbourne first. With most getting off at Tullamarine, the huge B747 was almost empty for its final leg to Sydney. I thought it was a bit of a waste and at the time, I welcomed the changes to allow Qantas access to domestic air routes.

Anyway, as for 'choosing carefully in the first place', how do we do this? What if we don't choose carefully and aren't all banks fundamentally the same anyway?
I 'chose' the Commonwealth Bank because they had people coming around to the schools and offered special 'piggy bank' accounts. Parents were opening Commonwealthe Bank accounts for their children because it seemed like a good idea at the time. In those days, there was a Commonwealth Bank in every Post Office.

I know this was a while ago but it illustrates the fact that itsmore complex than to stipulate a 'right decision' ideal.

The ATO taking a dim view was based on the concept of having no bank account or savings at all. The kero tin under the bed that midas spoke of is the only way to eradicate our involvement with the banking system but this is totally impractical.
As for the ATO trying to prove anything... well, they don't have to prove anything to stuff up your day. Ever been audited? I guess not.

Nevertheless, I can see that were clearly talking about changing banks not cutting loose altogether. In any case, its notthat easy.

 

[imported_E_A__]

Moffo, I don't know too many people being paid in cash any more.

I asked my Company accountant but he refuses to electronically pay me in Fly Buys points.

Sure, that's a fairly simplistic view of how we are tied to Banks, but to the normal everyday working stiffs, that's where it matters.

 

[Willow]

Yonks back, I knew of a few people who had their 'bank accounts' with SP bookies at the Marlborough Hotel in Newtown.
Offcourse nowadays it all electronic and I'm sure that fine establishment and newmanagement is now well legal....

But back thenI used to watch local contractors give their 'cash' earnings to the SP bookie who was more than happy to putit in the hotel safe.

Sure, they'd gamble some of it away but it whenever the 'depositor' needed an extension on the house, a pre-arranged withdawal would be made and the money paid to yet another contractor would soon find his way back to the same SP bookie.... and so it went on. No tax man involved...that is if you don't count the bookie's earnings as tax.

One things that remains clear in my mind is that the pub bank was always a friendly place to do business and the service was fantastic.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Fair enough EA, i know that most people have automated banking systems in relation to their income these days. Im sure an exception could be made though, depending on the industry that you worked in. I mean, if u went up to the boss and said u want it in hand, how could they refuse? It would probably mean less work for them as well, in terms of transferring funds to bank accounts. But i take the point, its more convenient in that way.

Have i ever been audited?? Na, not yet mate, got nothing to audit! I really don't know what would go on during an audit, but you run a small business right? So i guess that would make their job a bit longer and more detailed.

My point about banks is that they all offer different styles of accounts. I think you will find they differentiate themselves mainly in this way. Im not sure how innovative the big 4 are, but smaller ones such as Bendigo are quite flexible from what i have read when it comes to managing individual accounts. After all, they were set up to look after the piggy bank investor who was sick of being screwed around by the big 4.

Moffo

 

[Willow]

"I really don't know what would go on during an audit, but you run a small business right? So i guess that would make their job a bit longer and more detailed. "

Knofe Moffo! I've pistol whipped guys for less than that!
Hmmm... how do I explain to you how statements like that are completely out of touch with the reality of the situation...? You think small business makes lifemore difficult for the ATO? I suppose you also think that big business keeps tidy and honest book keepers... the opposite is closer to the truth.

I understand that some poor ATO guys are 'inconvenienced' for a whole day because they have to be more 'detailed' with the inefficient small business owner...I'm surethe ATOare touched by your concern.

(in case you're wondering, I'm being sarcastic).

ATO officers are doing their job and by doing their job they stuff people around.... I didnt have any trouble because I runan honest business but it still cost me a day and a night of my valuable time.

 

[st ted]

Banks neuter gender.
Merely a building occupying a piece of real estate that one visits to gain access to other peoples money and pays a price for that privelege.
However, the people working in that building are becoming less and less respected.Once upon a time one could put some store in the advice that those people offered, now they are not bank managers,but basically sales consultants and are being paid a commission to flog one of the banks products to us.
This overt change of role and zero disclosure regulations have turned the banks into non- personal financial transactions that are not designed to be customer friendly,but to access our money.
This role change has been bought about by greed. It will never be reversed so I just treat them as necessary evil.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Willow - with all due respect, i wasn't comparing small to big business at all. I was comparing auditing small business statements with auditing an individual.

But if you want to argue it, I know it doesn't happen, but once your a publicly listed company on the stock exchange, you are obliged to provide financial performance, financial position and cash flow statements. Last time i checked, small businesses have no obligation to provide any of those. Now obviously, big companies operate on a much larger scale, but their reporting structure is more formalised. I could only imagine how 'oddball' some small businesses would be in their reporting. Now im not saying that would be you , but i think it would be dodge city in some industries.

"I understand that some poor ATO guys are 'inconvenienced' for a whole day because they have to be more 'detailed' with the inefficient small business owner...I'm surethe ATOare touched by your concern.

(in case you're wondering, I'm being sarcastic)."

If you inferred that I was having a go at small businesses, you couldn't be more wrong! All i said was that it would take more time to conduct an audit on a small business than an individual

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Willow]

okay moffo... fair enough. looked like you were sticking up for the ATO.
Didnt know you were comparing business to individuals so fair enough again.
sorry for the misunderstanding.

"Last time i checked, small businesses have no obligation to provide any of those..."
Its mandatory for any business (with a turnover of $50,000 or more p.a.) to supply a monthly or quarterly BAS statement. This provides the ATO with ample financial information on any business - assuming they actually take the time to look at them.

Just a sideline on that... There's no problemrecording this information. We have it all locked in. But there are sometimes problems submitting it because the ATO online system often fails. Trying to ring them up is impossible and emails take days to get a reply.
We could just mail it to them in but thats not the way its set up because business was encouraged to automate everything with the introduction of GST.

The ATO do penalised business for being late with their BAS but offer nothing in return when they make mistakes. No big deal.. just one of my gripes.

 

[imported_Everlovin_Antichrist]

lol

Look what I found...

 

[CanadianSteve]

I scrolled through some of this, EA. Is there anything revealing or special in it that I'm missing?

 

[imported_Everlovin_Antichrist]

Nah, it's just the thread where raging bulldog went off at me for insulting bank staff. As soon as he bit I think he realised what had happened and he never posted again.

I'm sure he's at LWOS under a different nic though. He'll flush himself out one day.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Yeah, I see it now, I didn't go back to the first page when I first looked through. That was a good one all right.

I'm sure he's at LWOS under a different nic though.

Do you mean LWOS, or do you mean Front Row? It'd be great to see him in the Fight Club with you.

 

[imported_Everlovin_Antichrist]

Sorry, you're rightSteve, TFR.

I don't think he'd do anything to be honest. He lasted a nanosecond last time and TFC would be way over his weight limit.

 

[CanadianSteve]

So you don't think he's Half-man, or Madunit, or one of the other regulars there? (I can't keep all those guys straight.)

 

[imported_Everlovin_Antichrist]

No, no one with a high profile.

Either that or he's just a voyeur.