Bennett calls for Norm Provan to be the next immortal.

[ouryear]

I’ve been thinking more on this.

If this concept is fair dinkum, there are no other ‘real’ candidates. What he has achieved is unsurpassed and unlikely to ever be unsurpassed. He is the best candidate worthy of ‘lasting fame’ which is the definition most appropriate for the term Immortal in this context. So, they should be able to announce it now, but that doesn’t make news or sell papers.

What scares me is that Provan may not be seen as ‘commercially’ a good choice compared to a Lockyer for example. This of course would be covered up by the ‘different era’ sh!t excuse.

Anyway, I won’t put the cart before the horse and fly into a rage just yet. All i’ll say is that I hope he gets the nod and is here to enjoy an honour that shoud’ve been bestowed on him YEARS ago.

Do you think Cam Smith (don’t get me started) and JT will wait as long? Judging by Johns, no.

This morning I spoke with an old Saints man, in the know.....but not on the inside.

Anyway, old Pete says they have resigned themselves to the fact that it is going to be a modern day player, reason is he says is because the league wants a player who they can still actively promote to the kids and others, and also who people can relate to.

It's all about marketing Pete believes.

Anyway, wait and see.

 

[RufusRex]

ouryear .. I don't doubt that ...

Anyway .. why cheapen Norm's legacy by having him associated with Joey and eventyally Mal/Locky ... Norm is so much better than that ...

His place should always be on top of the trophy that everyone in the NRL aspires to win. He is the very model of the player/person that everyone int he NRL should aspire to be. He is better than that immortal concept ;-)

 

[Slippery Morris]

If you were an outsider looking in and had no idea of the game just looked at records, stats etc you would be scratching your head wondering why he already is not an immortal and question how the others were chosen ahead of him. What he has achieved is something nobody will. You look at the current superstars like Cam Smith and Thurston and think they are the best in this current generation and their records are nowhere near as good as Proven..

Proven has proven that he should be an immortal.

 

[ouryear]

ouryear .. I don't doubt that ...

Anyway .. why cheapen Norm's legacy by having him associated with Joey and eventyally Mal/Locky ... Norm is so much better than that ...

His place should always be on top of the trophy that everyone in the NRL aspires to win. He is the very model of the player/person that everyone int he NRL should aspire to be. He is better than that immortal concept ;-)

Mate, well said.
Great post. And so true.

 

[getsmarty]

Why Norm Provan should be the next Immortal
Author
Margie McDonald Senior Reporter
Timestamp
Wed 28 Feb 2018, 10:32 AM

He is half the NRL Telstra Premiership trophy. He should be the next Immortal.

Norm Provan might be more familiar to the broader church of rugby league fans as the taller guy in bronze, embracing the shorter Arthur Summons as they trudged off a sodden SCG pitch at the end of the 1963 grand final between St George and Wests.

But Provan's career achievements far excel his 193cm, 99kg frame, which itself was impressive on a football field.

With NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg announcing on Tuesday that a ninth Immortal would be named this year – the first since Andrew Johns in 2012 – the debate will be on about who should next shoulder this immense honour.

Remember the game started in 1908, so a name to herald that 110th anniversary should be a significant one.

It is hard to compare the careers of players over the generations, when so much in rugby league has changed.

But a few things haven't – including how hard it is to win a premiership, and how difficult it is to break into the Australian Kangaroos team, or a state rep team.

Norm Provan in action for St George. NRL Photos
Provan did all that – it's just that he did it before the majority of present-day fans were born.

They will be more familiar with Australia's Test coach, Queensland's record-breaking Origin mentor, and the only player to be selected in four Kangaroos Tours, Mal Meninga.

Or they might think four-time premiership-winner Darren Lockyer, who is still the most capped Kangaroos player (59 Tests), and one who broke a host of other records as a sublime fullback and five-eighth, is a worthy candidate – and they'd be right.

• Renouf: Why Meninga and Lockyer should be next Immortals

You could add winger Ken Irvine - who still holds the record for most first-grade tries with 212, hooker Noel Kelly or second-rower Ron Coote as possible candidates – and you'd be right again. All three were in rugby league's Centenary Team named in 2008.

There's plenty of backing for current stars like Cameron Smith and Johnathan Thurston. But it is understood a player must be retired for at least five years before they are considered.

Regardless of the chatter, Provan was special.

He put his body through 15 first-grade seasons with St George (1951-65), playing in 10 winning grand finals – his last four as captain-coach. He played 18 Tests (1954-1960) and 27 games for NSW.

He then coached St George to a preliminary final in 1968, before a season with Parramatta (1975) and two years with Cronulla, which included the 1978 grand final loss to Manly Warringah.

However, if you're still not sure about Norm Provan then you need only look at the Provan-Summons trophy – the pinnacle for clubs in the Telstra Premiership.

Rugby league great Ron Coote. NRL Photos
The pose was first captured in a photograph by Fairfax's John O'Gready known as "The Gladiators".

O'Gready captured near-perfectly the exhaustion, courage, competitiveness and mateship of rugby league, especially on display in high-octane games like grand finals.

The 85-year-old Provan was born in the NSW Riverina region, retired to Queensland, and usually makes the trek to each Dally M Awards with Arthur Summons to present the medal struck in their names, one that is for the player voted by fans as their favourite.

It is now time for Provan to receive his due recognition.

The views in this article do not necessarily express the opinions of the NRL, ARLC, NRL clubs or state associations.

Related





https://www.dragons.com.au/news/2018/03/01/why-norm-provan-should-be-the-next-immortal/

 

[SEAT 1A]

This morning I spoke with an old Saints man, in the know.....but not on the inside.

Anyway, old Pete says they have resigned themselves to the fact that it is going to be a modern day player, reason is he says is because the league wants a player who they can still actively promote to the kids and others, and also who people can relate to.

It's all about marketing Pete believes.

Anyway, wait and see.

So, we have changed the goal posts. From the greats of the game to kids favorites, well done league.

 

[ouryear]

So, we have changed the goal posts. From the greats of the game to kids favorites, well done league.

If it's right what old Pete says, yes.

Although once Joey was put there, it already happened.

Not that Joey wasn't a great player, but there were others first.

Old Pete saw games in the 1940s, he says there were many greats that will never get in, as its simply too long ago and lack of movie footage.

I think the concept needs changing.

 

[Gareth67]

This morning I spoke with an old Saints man, in the know.....but not on the inside.

Anyway, old Pete says they have resigned themselves to the fact that it is going to be a modern day player, reason is he says is because the league wants a player who they can still actively promote to the kids and others, and also who people can relate to.

It's all about marketing Pete believes.

Anyway, wait and see.

our year - It would not surprise . In as much as I would like Norm Provan to be announced as the next immortal , there are so many fans out there today that have never seen the man play , let alone heard his name .

It is a different era and as your mate Pete suggests the NRL would prefer to name one whom is familiar with today's generation of fans . Should this eventuate , then perhaps the NRL could look at another avenue of honouring all those greats that played the game in years gone by - a sort of 1 off recognition that honours all past players .

However after saying all that I still believe and hope that Sticks Provan receives this honour.

 

[2010]

Who gets to determine who will be the next immortal

 

[TruSaint]

Who gets to determine who will be the next immortal

The NRL bought the IP , so they now control this. As to the " who " and " why " basis, time will tell.

 

[TruSaint]

ouryear .. I don't doubt that ...

Anyway .. why cheapen Norm's legacy by having him associated with Joey and eventyally Mal/Locky ... Norm is so much better than that ...

His place should always be on top of the trophy that everyone in the NRL aspires to win. He is the very model of the player/person that everyone int he NRL should aspire to be. He is better than that immortal concept ;-)

All the more reason to right this wrong.
Its not the association with Joey, but the failure of this great NOT being classified as an immortal.

I would think Norm himself would love this acknowledgement. Unlike any concept of a Hall of Fame, if the NRL have bought the IP for the IMmortal concept, then as the governing body, they should take action and remedy Provan's status to what is should be. Immortal.

 

[Life's Good]

ouryear .. I don't doubt that ...

Anyway .. why cheapen Norm's legacy by having him associated with Joey and eventyally Mal/Locky ... Norm is so much better than that ...

His place should always be on top of the trophy that everyone in the NRL aspires to win. He is the very model of the player/person that everyone int he NRL should aspire to be. He is better than that immortal concept ;-)

I’ve never looked at it like that. Certainly a great tribute to his legacy when put that way.

 

[Saints Forever]

Looks as though Wayne Bennett is a closet Saints supporter from way back.

Applaud him for speaking up.

Norm Provan should have been made an immortal many many years ago.

Lord knows he deserves the honour !!!!!!!!!!

 

[ouryear]

our year - It would not surprise . In as much as I would like Norm Provan to be announced as the next immortal , there are so many fans out there today that have never seen the man play , let alone heard his name .

It is a different era and as your mate Pete suggests the NRL would prefer to name one whom is familiar with today's generation of fans . Should this eventuate , then perhaps the NRL could look at another avenue of honouring all those greats that played the game in years gone by - a sort of 1 off recognition that honours all past players .

However after saying all that I still believe and hope that Sticks Provan receives this honour.

Hi Gareth, me too mate.

Geeze, as Pete says, there are just so many ...many awesome great players from 1908 - today.

Did you know they played 3 metre defence rule, can you believe it?
3 metres!

Then 5 metres, now 10 metres.

They played under the no replacement rule. Not even for injures, let alone 4 man bench rotation like today.

Players played on with broken arms, broken hands, dislocated shoulders, and even busted ACL'S.....my god.

They played with a water sodden leather ball, no kicking tees.

No protection against head highs, against shoulder charges, against lifting tackles....an elbow was a badge of honour.

Missing teeth was an honour.

Scrums were contested and vicious.

You could rake for the ball as marker at play the ball. It turned into a brawl, thuggery and vicious.

And then they would still have a beer together after the game.

And they all held down a full-time job.

And their league pay was a pittance, almost nothing.

No training facilities.

No recovery sessions.

No ice baths.

No physios.

Wowww.....no matter how good we might think today's players are, there is NO COMPARISON to our brothers of yesterday.

Legends, all of them.

Bloody awesome legends.

 

[BennyV]

Hi Gareth, me too mate.

Geeze, as Pete says, there are just so many ...many awesome great players from 1908 - today.

Did you know they played 3 metre defence rule, can you believe it?
3 metres!

Then 5 metres, now 10 metres.

They played under the no replacement rule. Not even for injures, let alone 4 man bench rotation like today.

Players played on with broken arms, broken hands, dislocated shoulders, and even busted ACL'S.....my god.

They played with a water sodden leather ball, no kicking tees.

No protection against head highs, against shoulder charges, against lifting tackles....an elbow was a badge of honour.

Missing teeth was an honour.

Scrums were contested and vicious.

You could rake for the ball as marker at play the ball. It turned into a brawl, thuggery and vicious.

And then they would still have a beer together after the game.

And they all held down a full-time job.

And their league pay was a pittance, almost nothing.

No training facilities.

No recovery sessions.

No ice baths.

No physios.

Wowww.....no matter how good we might think today's players are, there is NO COMPARISON to our brothers of yesterday.

Legends, all of them.

Bloody awesome legends.

Depends on what you're comparing. For us today, the feats of yesteryear sound very impressive, almost romantic. But comparing what they actually did to what the players these days can do isn't a fair comparison, because the game today is so much more advanced than what it was.
Players now arent less tough because they dont get into an many punch ups, I'd argue that they are tougher due to the physicality and effort that needs to go into everything they do on the field. There's no pie-eating beer-filled scaffolders getting agro at each other, these are finely tuned 110kg+ monsters ramming into each other at full speeds - with a 10m run up!
They arent less committed now because they have to go back to their full time jobs - they have to commit their entire lives to staying in peak physical and mental condition to put their bodies through the wringer each week.

Sure, the game seems overly processed now, but for mine that's something thats so impressive. For 15 squads, every minute of the game is broken down and meticulously analysed, planned and drilled while still allowing enough wiggle room for instinct of the footballers to take control when they need to. Defence is no longer 'just tackle boiiizz', every movement has to be accounted for and practiced until moving as a unit becomes second nature.

I've got a hell of a lot of respect for the champions of the past and I know that the rests of some of those guys will never be surpassed, and when comparing the likes of Gasnier, Raper, Provan and so on to the others of their era, they deserve the title of immortal. God knows I'd have loved to have been alive to see them in actions (speaking to Johnny Raper about the Greatest Team of all was awe-inspiring). But compared to the game of today and what the players go through, there really is no comparison..

 

[Life's Good]

Sure, the game seems overly processed now, but for mine that's something thats so impressive. For 15 squads, every minute of the game is broken down and meticulously analysed, planned and drilled while still allowing enough wiggle room for instinct of the footballers to take control when they need to. Defence is no longer 'just tackle boiiizz', every movement has to be accounted for and practiced until moving as a unit becomes second nature.

I've got a hell of a lot of respect for the champions of the past and I know that the rests of some of those guys will never be surpassed, and when comparing the likes of Gasnier, Raper, Provan and so on to the others of their era, they deserve the title of immortal. God knows I'd have loved to have been alive to see them in actions (speaking to Johnny Raper about the Greatest Team of all was awe-inspiring). But compared to the game of today and what the players go through, there really is no comparison..

I saw what you did there.

 

[Gareth67]

Hi Gareth, me too mate.

Geeze, as Pete says, there are just so many ...many awesome great players from 1908 - today.

Did you know they played 3 metre defence rule, can you believe it?
3 metres!

Then 5 metres, now 10 metres.

They played under the no replacement rule. Not even for injures, let alone 4 man bench rotation like today.

Players played on with broken arms, broken hands, dislocated shoulders, and even busted ACL'S.....my god.

They played with a water sodden leather ball, no kicking tees.

No protection against head highs, against shoulder charges, against lifting tackles....an elbow was a badge of honour.

Missing teeth was an honour.

Scrums were contested and vicious.

You could rake for the ball as marker at play the ball. It turned into a brawl, thuggery and vicious.

And then they would still have a beer together after the game.

And they all held down a full-time job.

And their league pay was a pittance, almost nothing.

No training facilities.

No recovery sessions.

No ice baths.

No physios.

Wowww.....no matter how good we might think today's players are, there is NO COMPARISON to our brothers of yesterday.

Legends, all of them.

Bloody awesome legends.

ouryear - you certainly know how to bring a man to tears ! They were great days indeed as any of the elder statesmen of the forum would tell you . As you said , blood and guts , elbows flying all over the place and some very , very hard men who would shake hands at games end and then share a few beers with them .

Only 2 reserves in those days and one did need to be relatively fit knowing that they would be playing for the full 80 minutes . The bulldozers of today can play at full tilt realising that they are on the field for a short duration compared to the players of yesteryear . In those days it was survival of the toughest player , not so much the fittest.

However regardless of the era there is no doubting that all players need to be durable . When it comes to comparing one era to another , well we can not as both skill , toughness and fitness are prominent in all . If there were some aspects that were different to today's game I would have to say that players in the past were more loyal to their respective clubs plus there were no reports of any wrongdoings by the playersoutside of the game - they were pretty much all cleanskins , none of the shenanigans that occur so often in this era .

 

[dragonssamy61]

ouryear - you certainly know how to bring a man to tears ! They were great days indeed as any of the elder statesmen of the forum would tell you . As you said , blood and guts , elbows flying all over the place and some very , very hard men who would shake hands at games end and then share a few beers with them .

Only 2 reserves in those days and one did need to be relatively fit knowing that they would be playing for the full 80 minutes . The bulldozers of today can play at full tilt realising that they are on the field for a short duration compared to the players of yesteryear . In those days it was survival of the toughest player , not so much the fittest.

However regardless of the era there is no doubting that all players need to be durable . When it comes to comparing one era to another , well we can not as both skill , toughness and fitness are prominent in all . If there were some aspects that were different to today's game I would have to say that players in the past were more loyal to their respective clubs plus there were no reports of any wrongdoings by the playersoutside of the game - they were pretty much all cleanskins , none of the shenanigans that occur so often in this era .

Gareth
I can see what your saying .
But we can not compare era's because .
Of the differnt rules of unlimited tackle to 4 tackle rule and now 6 tackle rule.
Also
3 meters to 5meters and now 10 meters.
I know something that we will all agree.
The great of each era .
Would be the great of today as well.
Because if you are a champion in the old days you would be a champion of today.
Mate how can you say there were no shenanigans in the old day's.
Come on changa , smithy and chook were all up to there eyeballs in it.
They were not the only one's.
I was speaking to sterlo on day and he said that he was glade he played when he did.
Because if he was playing nowday he wouldn't haddle the constant media pressure.

 

[Gareth67]

Gareth
I can see what your saying .
But we can not compare era's because .
Of the differnt rules of unlimited tackle to 4 tackle rule and now 6 tackle rule.
Also
3 meters to 5meters and now 10 meters.
I know something that we will all agree.
The great of each era .
Would be the great of today as well.
Because if you are a champion in the old days you would be a champion of today.
Mate how can you say there were no shenanigans in the old day's.
Come on changa , smithy and chook were all up to there eyeballs in it.
They were not the only one's.
I was speaking to sterlo on day and he said that he was glade he played when he did.
Because if he was playing nowday he wouldn't haddle the constant media pressure.

Sammy mate , you have misread my post buddy as I said - " when it comes to comparing one era to another , well we can not . . . ."
And as far as shenanigans are concerned , getting pussed with your mates is not in the same category as criminal actions and court cases that seems to be rampant nowadays, a far cry from it .

 

[dragonssamy61]

Sammy mate , you have misread my post buddy as I said - " when it comes to comparing one era to another , well we can not . . . ."
And as far as shenanigans are concerned , getting pussed with your mates is not in the same category as criminal actions and court cases that seems to be rampant nowadays, a far cry from it .

My bad gareth.
Love your work mate.