Big Names on the market

[matt]

easy tiger , mmmeeoow

now you are being nasty again.

where would you find an extra $150K if you needed too in that position

you already know mine.

 

[dubby]

matt,

it is hard to understand the position the club is in with the salary cap. By releasing players who were under contract does not mean that money is "free". It still counts. Releasing Howell or Dobbo or someone doesnt automatically mean that money doesnt count towards the cap.

We have alot of contracts expire next year. I would look very hard at the likes of Ben Jones, Bronx Goodwin, Josh Miller and see if they are worthy of the money we pay them.

But having said that, we know the likes of Joe Picker, Will Zillman and even Nigel Plum may want extra $$ if they have a good year. We will pay more for Costigan if he plays SOO again, so please remember that too.

It is a very delicate process. While the likes of Inu/Hayne etc would be very handy we have to take into account : at what cost?

Plus, the management will do what is best for ACT. They have are trying to build an image and a culture at the club that reflects the ACT.

 

[matt]

how important is having vision to avoid such atrocities. forsight should never be under estimated.

anyways im hoping end of next year the gate will open to let the dead wood out .

i do feel this is starting to take place.

now as for purchases personally i would be looking for halfbacks (pending the non performance of zillman , herbert or dare i say it dobson) who are coming off contract in 2009 or 2010, yes i know no one except the bag off for 09 so maybe some snooping around for the disgruntled and planning all other shedding and gaining around this. it may already be being done , like you say.

i do not take my halfbacks lightly , correct decisions early and our outside backs may not look all that bad,a couple excluded.
same can be said for management i spose.

 

[Chachi]

I can see the headlines now "CFMEU Raiders Sack Players Without Paying Out Contracts".

Bloody unions - we should be able to sack whoever we want, whenever we want!

As an aside, I REALLY hope Josh Miller gets back to his best next year. He's an outstanding clubman and a great role model off the field. I would hate for us to be in a position where he could be cut.

There are a stack of players whose contracts end next season which I think could be released with little real impact: Buttriss, Chalk, Cross, Goodwin, Howell, Jones, Pearson, Raston (already released?) and Rothery (already released?). There are a few in that list I rate pretty highly too, but I can't see many of them making a massive contribution in first grade. There are also the likes of Dobson and Hinchcliffe who are clearly being looked at closely too.

Considering Bickerstaff is gone and Howell, Raston and Rothery are already on the way out we could easily see 5-6 players getting the flick by the end of '08. You'd think that would free up $8-900K of cap space even if we did keep 2 or 3 those I've named. Some of that would go into topping up the contracts of Carney and Zillman but there's surely going to be a fair bit of room to make a play for 1 or 2 decent players during the season just by cleaning out the dead wood.

 

[Bay56]

matt,

it is hard to understand the position the club is in with the salary cap. By releasing players who were under contract does not mean that money is "free". It still counts. Releasing Howell or Dobbo or someone doesnt automatically mean that money doesnt count towards the cap.

We have alot of contracts expire next year. I would look very hard at the likes of Ben Jones, Bronx Goodwin, Josh Miller and see if they are worthy of the money we pay them.

But having said that, we know the likes of Joe Picker, Will Zillman and even Nigel Plum may want extra $$ if they have a good year. We will pay more for Costigan if he plays SOO again, so please remember that too.

It is a very delicate process. While the likes of Inu/Hayne etc would be very handy we have to take into account : at what cost?

Plus, the management will do what is best for ACT. They have are trying to build an image and a culture at the club that reflects the ACT.

Dubster the image management should be attempting to portray is one of a professional football club capable of winning premierships ... f**k the ACT thing ... the rest wiil follow.

The other matters you raise are all due to inept management ... they may now be attempting to rectify the mistakes of the past but quite frankly they should not have been made in the first place.

When they get their house in order and we start pissing in the long grass I'll give them my support ... until then it's business as usual for this 'whinging" supporter.

Btw dubster if you think I've got NFI (as noted in your post above) it doesnt say much for the people who are paid to run this club.

 

[ak47]

so if we paid Hayne $150K more than any other club would offer he would not come here ??

would we risk another Frawly example

in hindsight its easy to pay the over the top rates, to lure them here

but then a few years down the track we have no cap room, or they fail to perfom - Howell

i am not saying Frawly is a Hayne

I am saying, on principle, paying over the top rates can fall back and kick u on the ass twice as hard.

I'd rather pay over the top rates for an experienced contender - Hayne is not experienced enough yet and is subject to Frawlyness or Macca Syndrome, until he backs up more years to come.

 

[Bay56]

would we risk another Frawly example

in hindsight its easy to pay the over the top rates, to lure them here

but then a few years down the track we have no cap room, or they fail to perfom - Howell

i am not saying Frawly is a Hayne

I am saying, on principle, paying over the top rates can fall back and kick u on the ass twice as hard.

I'd rather pay over the top rates for an experienced contender - Hayne is not experienced enough yet and is subject to Frawlyness or Macca Syndrome, until he backs up more years to come.

NO .. that's why we'd sign Hayne for $150K more than he could get elsewhere. .. simple dude.

And please aka if you are going to compare dont use Howell as your subject matter when comparing talent ... blows your arguement out of the water pretty damn quick mate.

 

[ak47]

Russell Crowe can offer so many more salaray capped exempt incentives than we can

Unless we have a high profile celebrity, nobody can do it

Souths are in the select few sports teams in this country with hollywood recognition

Lapaglia and his FC is another

Crowe just spends up big on offseason round the world trips - BANG U SIGN UP, half of souths until this year had never been to the airport - now they are all seasoned frequent flier members

We cant offer that.........Will Haddin turn into a Bradman, and invest in his team

Will Mark Webber become a world champ, and turn to the raiders for support

NO.

Russell Crowe is a lottery type of effect.....Souths should thanks their lucky stars (pun intended if ya want).......you wont find any more patriot australians/nz/ANZAC and promotes his neighbourhood like its Malibu!!!!

I question that his influence should be subject to Fairness, ala Salary Cap...he brings SEAFOOD BUFFETS to the table Mr Shubert doesnt need to look at.

Its quiet clear Raiders Managment will never be able to mirror the Russell Crowe effect, due to their influence in todays world - minimal

We should have run with the name Steve Irwin more, but again we are pushing sh*t uphill when compared to the CROWE EFFECT!!!

 

[ak47]

We gave Howell a pay rise recently (2006) didnt we

then we drop him

what i am saying dont go digging into the canberra mint, willy nilly - even for HAYNE!!

More experience please,

 

[dubby]

bay,

at least things are now in place (it seems) to rid the club of players who are just not up to the standard our coach Neil Henry wants.

This is the first step isnt it?

The next is to view how much $$ we have left, so we can re-sign those who are an important part of the clubs future.

After that, the next step is to peruse the market and see who fits into the culture and identity of the club (a new identity maybe?) and if we can make a competitive offer for that player.

In the meantime, the coach and players need to work things out on the field and off it. Start winning games, start attracting good positive attention (thru winning and community service; this is where your f*ck the ACT attitude is wrong IMO.) and creating a good team spirit so players will want to be here.

Its not so easy just to go to Jarrod Hayne or whoever and say "here kid. Have $600k and make us win"

 

[julian87]

I'm with Dubby here.

Offering Hayne, Inu or Folau 500k would just be ridiculous. We would lose too many good players.

But there ARE players there who would help the club greatly and as I have said before, IMO, would be gettable.

Luke Rooney and Willie Tonga are prime examples.

Both are class players who have had a season or two out of rep footy contention who just can not ask for big bucks. IMO we can offer more than most clubs for the likes of these two. You could add Matt Cooper but he is a current Origin player and would ask too much (plus I don't rate him).

 

[fourxman]

That's a joke. Other teams can afford multiple good players and still have a decent squad.

The Cowboys have paid big bucks for JT & Bowen. They still have a solid squad for next year. Dragons and Broncs have been doing for many years.

We shouldn't have salary cap issues and when you compare us to Melbourne. Melbourne just won a premiership and have multiple Origin and Australian reps. We don't have that problem. Personally i would prefer to have Melbournes issues of how do we retain our Grand Final side.

All we are doing is trying to build a side which could have the potential to win a premiership. It starts with making some plays at good quality players like Folau for big bucks if it is required. We have to have to bring a winning culture to the club and i believe if we can have some winners in our ranks that would help.

Signing just some more average players or teams cast offs is not going to win us a premiership. Sure we got lucky with the likes of Costigan but we also lost out in buying cast offs like Frawley. We need players with that something special. I don't think Rooney, Tonga or Lewis have that something special. I see them as just solid signings which is good but we need that great player. We need a big signing which gives us cred and makes other players want to come here.

 

[Stelios Giannakopoulos]

Ah bay, would you rather use 150k to top up the likes of Zillman's and Carney's Contract, or would prefer to watse it paying overs for Hayne.. c'mon mate Hayne isn't going to win us a premiership from the wing. He also isn't the player that everyone wishes could be on their team..

Management know what they are doing.. There is only so much they can do to get the "Big Name" player. If we payed ridiculous overs, we probably could have got Paul Whaturia, we can't be an open chequebook club and I'm glad we didn't sign him at the end of the day because his form dropped off big time towards the end of the season.

Also it's easy for Russell Crowe to throw his chequebook around because only can he use 3rd party agreements that are exempt fromt he cap, but his club is in the heart of Sydney. Asotasi, Jeremy Smith, Dean Widders all already lived in Sydney, mkes it easier when your trying to lure them to a club across the road as opposed to a town 300km away.

Now that Elliott is gone things are starting to fall into place, our season was better then 14th place on the ladder shows.. Henry is starting to get the squad that he wants..

 

[dubby]

4Xman,

Bowen is still negotiating with NQ as far as I know, and NQ are looking for a 3rd party sponser to help keep him. Bowen is a local lad who is a god in the eyes of the local community; especially the aboriginals and Torries. He will stay at NQ, but his situation is unique.

As for a solid squad, their backline is very depleted after losing Bowman, Sweeney, Smith and Minto. They are still looking for backs.

Dragons. Well we all know how many GFs they have won with their stock. Gaz is being coffed up by the NRL as well.

Broncos are a club that have lost alot of personnel. PEtero, Berrigan, Thorn, Tate just to name a few. And who have they signed? A bunch of 2nd tier players or guys like Joel Clinton and Ashton Sims who arent that hot anyway.

Melbourne have guys like Inglis, and Folau on peanuts. Good luck keeping their squad together for the future; it wont happen they too will lose players (already have with King and Newton).

Your argument is shallow mate.



Try again.

 

[dubby]

Ah bay, would you rather use 150k to top up the likes of Zillman's and Carney's Contract, or would prefer to watse it paying overs for Hayne.. c'mon mate Hayne isn't going to win us a premiership from the wing. He also isn't the player that everyone wishes could be on their team..

Management know what they are doing.. There is only so much they can do to get the "Big Name" player. If we payed ridiculous overs, we probably could have got Paul Whaturia, we can't be an open chequebook club and I'm glad we didn't sign him at the end of the day because his form dropped off big time towards the end of the season.

Also it's easy for Russell Crowe to throw his chequebook around because only can he use 3rd party agreements that are exempt fromt he cap, but his club is in the heart of Sydney. Asotasi, Jeremy Smith, Dean Widders all already lived in Sydney, mkes it easier when your trying to lure them to a club across the road as opposed to a town 300km away.

Now that Elliott is gone things are starting to fall into place, our season was better then 14th place on the ladder shows.. Henry is starting to get the squad that he wants..

NO STELIOS! NO NO NO NO!!

IT IS ALL MANAGEMENTS FAULT! :sarcasm:

 

[Stelios Giannakopoulos]

NO STELIOS! NO NO NO NO!!

IT IS ALL MANAGEMENTS FAULT! :sarcasm:

Whoops forgot all about that!

Actually I went to make myself a cold drink a few minutes ago, but ran out of ice- all managements fault:!:

 

[matt]

so why is it that the Question is even asked.?????????/

 

[dubby]

Whoops forgot all about that!

Actually I went to make myself a cold drink a few minutes ago, but ran out of ice- all managements fault:!:

Dead right.


I think we should complain daily about that and hope that scores of others support you in your right to complain that the ice was empty will join in our effort, and it will be heard by management.

 

[matt]

Dead right.


I think we should complain daily about that and hope that scores of others support you in your right to complain that the ice was empty will join in our effort, and it will be heard by management.

power in numbers hey dubs i like your thinking dude. well show em.

Tbh you prolly should direct them in the right places not the fridge ffs.LoL

 

[Stelios Giannakopoulos]

Dead right.


I think we should complain daily about that and hope that scores of others support you in your right to complain that the ice was empty will join in our effort, and it will be heard by management.

Why stop there?

We are in the middle of a drought, management should have used forsight to prevent this.

Apperetnly out management can't even recruit rain to the area...