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Blaming the Ref Syndrome

Messages
2,623
This is something i think is pretty unique to RL fans
And not ref blaming because of course that happens in sport everywhere, but the way in which refereeing is talked about, the extent at which its blamed by fans and scrutiny on referees and how it seeps into the day to day discourse is unlike any other sport i follow

You can go into any match day thread on this site, or any club specific forum and for every single club you find fans who genunely think they're refereed differently, and that they're getting screwed

The journo's in the papers and the talking head shows lean all the way into it too. Which of course only makes it worse
And im not even divorcing myself from this, for sure i've been one of those people too, 10 years ago i was shocking for it. I make a concerted effort these days to try and be more measured about this, and for the most part i am. And of course in a big spot and particularly bad call that changes the outcome, like any fan, i blow up

But it's made my footy watching experience better when im not losing my mind at any 50/50 call that doesnt go our way as if its the greatest injustice anyone has suffered or pretending as if the referees have gathered pre season and determined they'll stop at nothing to stop the Canberra Raiders.

But its a real ugly side of RL fandom imo.
FTR I agree with most of what you've said here and I myself am guilty of feeling my club is reffed differently, at least when it comes to the calls that lead to tries and are comparative to ones in other games that get pulled up, because my team is down the bottom of the ladder.

However its far easier to not "lose your mind" over these calls when your team is at the top and you're not scrapping for wins on a weekly basis. We live and breathe our teams and being starved of success makes us crave it all the more.

I've never tried to justify a loss when the scoreline has blown out, ever. Wizardmong just has trouble with comprehension and Bobby is a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to looking for excuses for a loss
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
17,284
What was the deal with the pass off the ground none call that the raiders scored from? That was an obvious mistake by the ref but worse the video ref messed it up as well.
 

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
1,677
What was the deal with the pass off the ground none call that the raiders scored from? That was an obvious mistake by the ref but worse the video ref messed it up as well.
Gutho got called for that on Saturday. In Gutho's case the ref said his momentum had stopped. Can only guess the officials thought momentum had not stopped in the Raiders case.
 

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
1,677
Agree with you Axe. Easy to say swings and roundabouts or things even out over a season when your ensconced in the top 8 or top 4 and brush it off as human error by the officials or say your team should be better and not concede 44. When you're in the bottom 4 you seem to only get the swings and no roundabouts
 

nick87

Coach
Messages
12,585
TIL that raiders fans never blame the ref

Not only is that not true, it's also something that has not been said in this thread
In general, i think the Raiders fan base is every bit as bad, if not worse than most around the league for this.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
36,933
Like the OP and @nick87 I've been just as bad as anyone on this.

But I agree its getting out of hand.

The commentary teams are especially to blame for perpetuating it though. Even someone like Voss continues to say things like "the ball floated forward" completely ignorant of what constitutes a forward pass.
 

jonno_knights

Juniors
Messages
2,257
Gutho got called for that on Saturday. In Gutho's case the ref said his momentum had stopped. Can only guess the officials thought momentum had not stopped in the Raiders case.

Ref called it live as "check if the ball carrying arm touched the ground".

On review it didnt. So no issues with that being called play on. Same thing happend with Marzhew last week. Players are taught to play to the whistle / held call. Thats what the ref's are making a judgement on in the live play. If the ref doesnt call held or blow his whistle then players have every right to pass. And that's something the bunker cannot review.

Guthos appeared to be an interesting one, as the ref didnt call held or blow his whistle for a handover until after he passed it. Given its a split second judgement, I can live with that. These ref's are trying to process a few things different things at once.
 

jonno_knights

Juniors
Messages
2,257
And speaking of crackdowns, how about we have one for ball carriers holding onto jerseys in tackles, taking markers out and stopping 3rd tacklers getting back to the defensive line.

Quite often you'll see quick ptbs and 6-agains on the back off this because the defensive players are denied an opportunity to get square or back 10m.

A lot of players are guilty of this, and its been around for ages, but its definitely creeping in more and more.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
106,785
I'd echo what others have said, that blowing up about shit calls against your team is different to saying they are the reason your team lost. We all do it, there's nothing wrong with it, most of us are even right through the bias about how shit the call was every so often.

I will say though that I think the deeper issue and the main source of frustration is the inconsistency and the lack of accountability. Every single referee in the NRL seems to make different decisions, and there's no accountability when they get it wrong or when the inconsistency is exposed. There also doesn't seem to be any attempt to stop the inconsistency. I also agree that referees seem to referee lower teams much harder than they do good teams. I don't think it's any conspiracy, I just think they are poor referees and they focus less on the good teams because they think the bad team is more likely to struggle.

I also think it's inaccurate to say that referees are rarely a factor in the result. NRL refs regularly influence results with their decisions, especially in the modern NRL where posession and momentum is everything. They don't do it deliberately, which I think is where most complaints get a bit ridiculous, but through inconsistency and incompetence they absolute can and do influence results.

It's disingenuous too IMO to say that just because a scoreline is a blowout, the referee is blameless. It's obviously much less common but I think we can all remember games where penalty counts of 12-0 or so and heavy set restart counts have happened. Again, in the modern game, that's a death sentence for most teams. It's not to justify blaming the ref, but more that comments like that go too far the other way. Reality is in the middle, a referee can influence a game and cost a team a win, and they do, and the scoreline doesn't always negate that.

Tldr NRL refereeing is dire and needs to be fixed, and I think fans are entitled to complain about it, but there's no conspiracy and referees aren't generally the only a reason a team loses.
 
Messages
11,830
Fans everywhere and of every sport take exception to match officials and officiating, it's a tale as old as time. RL definitely isn't the worse I've come across; that crown belongs to Premier League fans who have made mainstream the notion that refs are all corrupt, and will scream blue murder that there's a transnational conspiracy against their club.

The aspect in which RL differs is the media and the way they constantly weigh into it with their biased opinions. I have not witnessed a sport like ours where media figures are loudly and repeatedly telling us (in their opinion) what a decision should be and if not, why it's wrong. You being a former player or coach does not make you an expert on the rules - shut up and call the game impartially.

NRL officiating and the bunker are not perfect - no system is or will be, but if I compared what we have to VAR it's MILES ahead. And Rugby League was literally born and developed as a result of consistent rule changes. It's the very essence of the game. If you didn't keep changing the rules to suit the needs of the game and its fan base you'd have a boring, dog shit product like Rugby Yawnion does now.
 

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
1,677
Ref called it live as "check if the ball carrying arm touched the ground".

On review it didnt. So no issues with that being called play on. Same thing happend with Marzhew last week. Players are taught to play to the whistle / held call. Thats what the ref's are making a judgement on in the live play. If the ref doesnt call held or blow his whistle then players have every right to pass. And that's something the bunker cannot review.

Guthos appeared to be an interesting one, as the ref didnt call held or blow his whistle for a handover until after he passed it. Given its a split second judgement, I can live with that. These ref's are trying to process a few things different things at once.
Wasn't arguing if either call was correct or wrong, just trying to justify why 1 was called held and the other play on. And as you said, you always play to the whistle.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
17,284
Agree with you Axe. Easy to say swings and roundabouts or things even out over a season when your ensconced in the top 8 or top 4 and brush it off as human error by the officials or say your team should be better and not concede 44. When you're in the bottom 4 you seem to only get the swings and no roundabouts
Parra is bottom 4 and we got away with the most obvious flop ever on the weekend. It’s just fan bias.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
12,577
The aspect in which RL differs is the media and the way they constantly weigh into it with their biased opinions. I have not witnessed a sport like ours where media figures are loudly and repeatedly telling us (in their opinion) what a decision should be and if not, why it's wrong. You being a former player or coach does not make you an expert on the rules - shut up and call the game impartially.
Andrew Voss has become the worst at this. He's really become such an unprofessional and self indulgent wanker in recent years. Does he know his job is to call games, not provide opinions and blow up at referee decisions.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
17,284
Ref called it live as "check if the ball carrying arm touched the ground".

On review it didnt. So no issues with that being called play on. Same thing happend with Marzhew last week. Players are taught to play to the whistle / held call. Thats what the ref's are making a judgement on in the live play. If the ref doesnt call held or blow his whistle then players have every right to pass. And that's something the bunker cannot review.

Guthos appeared to be an interesting one, as the ref didnt call held or blow his whistle for a handover until after he passed it. Given it’s a split second judgement, I can live with that. These ref's are trying to process a few things different things at once.
In the Knights v Canberra one the ball didn’t touch the ground but he def didn’t have any momentum. I’ve got no problem with the ref getting it wrong it’s just the video ref getting it wrong. Unless I am wrong about the rule?
 

Desert Qlder

First Grade
Messages
9,688
I don't think it is accurate that other sports do not fixate on officials.

I'll never forget growing up with an Italian fella who openly stated 'all [soccer] refs should be killed'. It was clearly a Northern Italian cultural thing he'd grown up with.

The most frustrating thing for me currently is how teams who are clearly coached to push boundaries are not brought into line. Our game rewards teams who push the boundaries of fair play. They treat the officials like complete dummies. The refs really look stupid when they are being openly played. With all the resources and professionalism available to them they need to do better.

Walking off the mark is a prime example. Teams and particular players are openly flouting this and there is no repercussion. To me it is as flagrant an error as not putting your feet on the ball, which is (occasionally and subjectively) punished.

Other occasions you have open game management like Klein in Origin. Not penalising (or doing anything at all about) Mitchell for diving into touch was about as evident an example of trying to keep NSW in that contest.

The criticism of referees is not unfounded.
 
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