Brett Stewart Try

[Roosterphin1]

Was it a try? for mine he intentionally knocked it forward over a panthers players head. Have we gone back to the old days of Dave Brown??

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

Yeah I`m thinking about this too. Don`t know what the rules say about this, but it certainly was brilliant thinking and execution.

 

[Roosterphin1]

Yeah I`m thinking about this too. Don`t know what the rules say about this, but it certainly was brilliant thinking and execution.

albeit totally illegal

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

So why was it awarded?

 

[Johns Magic]

albeit totally illegal

If Stewart was trying to regather the ball(which he was), Michael Gordon had every right to tackle him. That's the rule.

 

[Roosterphin1]

If Stewart was trying to regather the ball(which he was), Michael Gordon had every right to tackle him. That's the rule.

Cant say I believe that he was "trying to regather the ball" rather that he tapped it over the Penrith player deliberately. There is a massive difference and propelling the ball ahead deliberately and regathering is illegal.

 

[Johns Magic]

Cant say I believe that he was "trying to regather the ball" rather that he tapped it over the Penrith player deliberately. There is a massive difference and propelling the ball ahead deliberately and regathering is illegal.

Yes. He tapped it over deliberately and then regathered it.

Gordon could've smashed him and it would've been completely legal.

 

[Roosterphin1]

Yes. He tapped it over deliberately and then regathered it.

Gordon could've smashed him and it would've been completely legal.

The rule is you cannot tap the ball over an opponents head deliberately regardless of whether the defender can tackle you!! This was outlawed many years ago after tries used to be scored by throwing the ball over an opponents head and regathering

 

[TheDalek079]

sneaky little snot. last week there was his professional foul in taking out Mitch Pearce (wasn't penalised as Aubusson scored instead), and now there is this.

 

[Frenzy.]

The laws of the game are, as usual, ambigous and unclear.

If taken literally what Stewart did was a knock on. Here's the simple definition taken verbatim from ARL International Laws of the Game

KNOCK-ON means to knock the ball towards the opponents’ dead
ball line with hand or arm, while playing at the ball.

I suppose some will argue that as the ball didn't hit an opponent, (we hear every week from commentators about that), that it wasn't a knock on. I can't find anything in the laws of the game that mention that spilling the ball into an opponent is a knock on. But I might of missed it.

Anyway, yet another precedent has been set now.

 

[RL1908]

If it accidentially went forward, and the player re-gathers it, then it is legal. Stewart said after the game that he was trying to tap it upwards. Of course, the referee can't read a player's mind/intention. If the referee thought it was accidentially knocked forward, then it is ok.

Here are some relevant grabs from the rules:

"KNOCK-ON means to knock the ball towards the opponents' dead ball line with hand or arm, while playing at the ball."

"A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on."

"If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, then play shall be allowed to proceed."

A lot of people refer to Dally Messenger deliberately throwing/punching the ball over defenders' heads - this is a myth.

I found the incident it was based upon, and the newspaper reports afterwards - it's all detailed in The Master, but basically all Messenger did was put his hand in the path of the ball, let it rebound forward, and then catch it before it hit the ground.
(The Master http://www.RL1908.com/books/Dally-Messenger.htm )

The NSWRL then ruled that it was to be taken as a deliberate knock-forward as Messenger had chosen to put his hand in the path of the ball. The mere fact that Messenger could not know/control the rebound still wasn't enough to satisfy the NSWRL it was an accidental knock-on.

Over the century though this interpretation has been applied with less ruthlessness, and countless players have taken intercepts by deliberately tapping the ball forward.

Interestingly, this Stewart try (and indeed his famous one against the Wests Tigers at Brookie a few years back) are exactly what the knock-foward rule was mean to stop, and that it was never intended to apply to players simply dropping the ball straight the ground.

Dropping the ball straight to the ground was never considered a knock-on until the 1970s - indeed, the rules applying to a drop kick as well as the play-the-ball, both refer to players being allowed to drop the ball to the ground.

 

[Eels Dude]

The laws of the game are, as usual, ambigous and unclear.

If taken literally what Stewart did was a knock on. Here's the simple definition taken verbatim from ARL International Laws of the Game

KNOCK-ON means to knock the ball towards the opponents’ dead
ball line with hand or arm, while playing at the ball.

I suppose some will argue that as the ball didn't hit an opponent, (we hear every week from commentators about that), that it wasn't a knock on. I can't find anything in the laws of the game that mention that spilling the ball into an opponent is a knock on. But I might of missed it.

Anyway, yet another precedent has been set now.

Precedent or not, it's not allowed after players tried it years ago after scoring tries by throwing the ball over an opponents head, running through, catching it and scoring.

I wouldn't have thought it to be a knock on, but rather a deliberate forward pass or something resulting in a penalty if picked up at the time.

Interesting to see if Robert Finch rules it was the wrong decision, or even comments at all on this when they review it on monday.

 

[Paul Hewson]

It was a fair try. He never had control of the ball before it went forward. Had he of had control of the ball and thrown it forward for himself then it would have been disallowed. He has every right to knock the ball forward.

 

[LeagueNut]

He never had control of the ball before it went forward.

But he never had the intention of trying to gain control of the ball - he deliberately knocked the ball forward.

If he had gone for a catch and fumbled before regathering then fair enough, but that wasn't the case last night.

 

[Daddycool]

As it has been rightly pointed out, a player can't pass or tap the ball forward, for himself or anyone else. However, the point that some of you are missing is, Stewart wasn't in possession of the ball prior to tapping it forward. This is the key to the whole argument.

 

[Brookie]

slipt milk much?

didn't have any bearing on the result

 

[Eels Dude]

slipt milk much?

didn't have any bearing on the result

I think you mean spilt.

It doesn't matter whether it has a bearing on the result or not. It's about referees getting decisions right, and clarification of rules, to avoid a potential mistake occuring next time.

 

[Where Eagles Dare]

A point to consider: Gordon looked to try to do the same thing after Stewart batted it, if he had been successful and batted it back over Stewart's head and regathered would a double knock-on be called against him? My initial thought is no, play on, what do others think?

 

[Brookie]

I think you mean spilt.

It doesn't matter whether it has a bearing on the result or not. It's about referees getting decisions right, and clarification of rules, to avoid a potential mistake occuring next time.

lol, yep!

dyslexia & hangover kicking in

 

[RL1908]

As it has been rightly pointed out, a player can't pass or tap the ball forward, for himself or anyone else. However, the point that some of you are missing is, Stewart wasn't in possession of the ball prior to tapping it forward. This is the key to the whole argument.

Having possession of the ball or not, prior to deliberately tapping the ball forward, doesn't make it legal. You won't find any allowance in the rules for what you are suggesting.

However, I don't doubt that some referees will agree with you, and will say that you can deliberately tap the ball forward, if you are in the act of trying to bring the ball into your control - this goes on all the time with intercepts.

I have no problem if it accidentially goes forward if you are trying to tap it upwards.

But a reading of the rules shows that any interpretation suggesting it is EVER ok in rugby league to deliberately knock the ball forward is wrong.

A deliberate knock forward is an unlawful act in EVERY circumstance.

It is unlawful to take an intercept by deliberately knocking the ball forward. There are many intercepts allowed that are far more deliberate than what Stewart did - and they too are unlawful.

It was unlawful when Messenger knocked forward in 1911 (and the NSWRL took action to stop him) and it is still wrong today.

"KNOCK-ON means to knock the ball towards the opponents' dead ball line with hand or arm, while playing at the ball."

"A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on."

"If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, then play shall be allowed to proceed."

http://www.arlra.org.au/laws.html