What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Brisbane Jets

flippikat

Bench
Messages
2,793
Financially weak?NZRU has just got a massive cash injection.
While that's true the big problem right now for NZR is forging a meaningful, competitive replacement for Super Rugby that can provide revenue streams moving ahead.

At the moment, what's on the table isn't all that appealing - the NZ teams will likely dominate the Aussies, and the Moana Pasifika & Fiji Drua sides are based in places that aren't exactly economic powerhouses- so even if they "come good" before the Aussies do it's limited returns there.

The real money is potentially in a Pacific Rim competition that pulls in America (USA, Canada, Argentina) and maybe Asia as well.. but that likely needs a big export of NZ coaching & playing talent to kick-start those markets... and I don't think NZR have the guts to do that.
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
3,725
While that's true the big problem right now for NZR is forging a meaningful, competitive replacement for Super Rugby that can provide revenue streams moving ahead.

At the moment, what's on the table isn't all that appealing - the NZ teams will likely dominate the Aussies, and the Moana Pasifika & Fiji Drua sides are based in places that aren't exactly economic powerhouses- so even if they "come good" before the Aussies do it's limited returns there.

The real money is potentially in a Pacific Rim competition that pulls in America (USA, Canada, Argentina) and maybe Asia as well.. but that likely needs a big export of NZ coaching & playing talent to kick-start those markets... and I don't think NZR have the guts to do that.
Don't forget singapore.... sorry wrong thread
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,060
While that's true the big problem right now for NZR is forging a meaningful, competitive replacement for Super Rugby that can provide revenue streams moving ahead.

At the moment, what's on the table isn't all that appealing - the NZ teams will likely dominate the Aussies, and the Moana Pasifika & Fiji Drua sides are based in places that aren't exactly economic powerhouses- so even if they "come good" before the Aussies do it's limited returns there.

The real money is potentially in a Pacific Rim competition that pulls in America (USA, Canada, Argentina) and maybe Asia as well.. but that likely needs a big export of NZ coaching & playing talent to kick-start those markets... and I don't think NZR have the guts to do that.
The NZRU is definitely more venerable now than it's ever been, and totally underestimated how reliant they were on competitive competition from Aus and RSA to sustain their growth.

If the NRL really wanted to they could make it so much worse for them as well. All they'd have to do is create incentives for the clubs to sign as much top RU talent from NZ as possible. Whether not that's actually in the NRL's interest or not is an other question though.

If the NZRU are smart they'll realise that strengthening the Australian SR clubs, and thus making SR a more competitive and exciting product, by allowing Kiwis (and the rest...) to play in Aus and still qualify for the All Blacks, is the quickest way to draw more interest back to the sport in NZ that's in their control. But I doubt they'd ever allow it, they're too parochial and interested in their own personal glory to risk the NZ clubs dominance in such a way.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
2,793
If the NZRU are smart they'll realise that strengthening the Australian SR clubs, and thus making SR a more competitive and exciting product, by allowing Kiwis (and the rest...) to play in Aus and still qualify for the All Blacks, is the quickest way to draw more interest back to the sport in NZ that's in their control. But I doubt they'd ever allow it, they're too parochial and interested in their own personal glory to risk the NZ clubs dominance in such a way.
Dare I say it, but RU in the Pacific has the same "imperial mindset" dogging it that RL has - just substitute NSW RL for NZ RU.

In both cases, the dominant power realizes that successful expansion means they won't be able to dominate the game unchallenged like they used to, and it scares them.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
44,355
s
The NZRU is definitely more venerable now than it's ever been, and totally underestimated how reliant they were on competitive competition from Aus and RSA to sustain their growth.

If the NRL really wanted to they could make it so much worse for them as well. All they'd have to do is create incentives for the clubs to sign as much top RU talent from NZ as possible. Whether not that's actually in the NRL's interest or not is an other question though.

If the NZRU are smart they'll realise that strengthening the Australian SR clubs, and thus making SR a more competitive and exciting product, by allowing Kiwis (and the rest...) to play in Aus and still qualify for the All Blacks, is the quickest way to draw more interest back to the sport in NZ that's in their control. But I doubt they'd ever allow it, they're too parochial and interested in their own personal glory to risk the NZ clubs dominance in such a way.
said this before, expansion clubs should be given a 50% salary cap discount on any player signed from outside the nrl and SL For five years.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,060
Dare I say it, but RU in the Pacific has the same "imperial mindset" dogging it that RL has - just substitute NSW RL for NZ RU.

In both cases, the dominant power realizes that successful expansion means they won't be able to dominate the game unchallenged like they used to, and it scares them.
Maybe in the NZRU's case, but not in the NRL's case.

There's no way that any of the other RL nations in the pacific will be able to compete with the sheer amount of resources available in Australia, at least not in our lifetimes. So even if, e.g., the NZRL grows as big as realistically possible, even become successful independent of the NRL, they'll still always play second fiddle to the NRL.

It is what it is, I'm afraid.

Now if you said that that fear of creating competitors was holding RL back from growing in Australia because Sydney was scared that success in the other capital cities would shake their power over the sport, just like the Broncos did, then I'd agree with you, to an extent. But they aren't scared of the influence of the NZRL, PNGRL, etc.
 
Last edited:

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,060
s

said this before, expansion clubs should be given a 50% salary cap discount on any player signed from outside the nrl and SL For five years.
Why just expansion clubs and why just 50%?

If the NRL was really of a mind to at once hurt a competitor in a target market, and make a bunch of publicity in said target market as well, then they'd want everybody that's willing to have a crack, and throw as much at it as they can afford.
 
Messages
3,977
Haha yes because how we perform at U18”s has a great bearing on the potential success of a $30mill a year professional top tier sports club!
We’ve had two of our Jnrs debut for Sydney clubs this year. show some gratitude for us producing talent for the east coast lol.
Didn't the WARL have up to 10k registered players when the Reds were in the ARL?

The best way to get more kids playing the game in Perth is by bringing in the Pirates.

How they perform in the SG Ball competition is irrelevant.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
44,355
Why just expansion clubs and why just 50%?

If the NRL was really of a mind to at once hurt a competitor in a target market, and make a bunch of publicity in said target market as well, then they'd want everybody that's willing to have a crack, and throw as much at it as they can afford.
50% as clubs will spend what they haven’t got if you let them and expansion as it helps reduce dilution of existing talent. It’s not so much about hurting competitors (plenty of examples of how it doesnt really make any difference) but rather strengthening the player pool By encouraging clubs to take a chance with less risk.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,060
50% as clubs will spend what they haven’t got if you let them and expansion as it helps reduce dilution of existing talent.
Even if the clubs all offered stupid money you'd be lucky if 1 in 10 of the RU players offered a contract took it, and even less than that would successfully convert from RU to RL, so most won't be around long anyway. So I don't think you'd have to worry too much about clubs sending themselves broke signing a bunch of RU players.

Also, any team signing a player from outside the sport stops dilution of existing talent, not just expansion clubs.
It’s not so much about hurting competitors (plenty of examples of how it doesnt really make any difference) but rather strengthening the player pool By encouraging clubs to take a chance with less risk.
Sure in normal circumstances signing a handful players, even big star players, isn't going to hurt a comp much at all, but with the NZRU in the precarious position that they are currently in, if the NRL targeted NZRU talent, particularly young talent, it'd definitely make a difference.

Their participation rates are dropping faster than ours are, particularly in the major demographics, and outside of the All Blacks, interest in the sport is the lowest it's been in generations, especially in the younger demographics. So even if you could sign just the next Jonah Lomu it would hurt the sport in NZ bad ATM, because they simply don't have as many of those household name sort of players going around as they used to.

Add on top of that heavy expansion into NZ to create legitimate alternate competitor products that most NZ SR clubs have never had to compete with before, and though the effects might not become obvious for a generation or so, it'd really knock the NZRU about in ways that it's never had to deal with before.

This is all academic though because the NRL doesn't have the balls to take such risks, nor am I sure that it'd really be in their best interests as opposed to trying to grow into untapped and underserviced markets within Australia.
 
Messages
3,977
Dare I say it, but RU in the Pacific has the same "imperial mindset" dogging it that RL has - just substitute NSW RL for NZ RU.

In both cases, the dominant power realizes that successful expansion means they won't be able to dominate the game unchallenged like they used to, and it scares them.
The NRL and NZRU remind me of the BCCI. They won't allow Twenty20 competitions like the BBL to sign Indian international players, which is hurting the growth of the league during a time when it has legitimate competition from NBL, A-League, NFL, NBA and EPL.

The whole cricket calendar is based around the IPL schedule. A season or two back we didn't get to see the Australian national team play in January or February on home soil because the BCCI wanted us to play an ODI series in India.
 

cumbrian Mackem

Juniors
Messages
994
The best way to hurt NZRU in the short-term would be for NRL clubs to sign up around half a dozen current All Blacks and that number again of non/fringe All Blacks from super rugby Aotearoa clubs for the next 5 years but this approach would ultimately fail in the end because it’s far too costly and risky in terms of converting top union players into top league players. Plus the fact that the rugby union infrastructures in New Zealand would still be in place after 5 years of constant NRL raids and there still wouldn’t be any RL equivalent in NZ other than the warriors setup.

A far better approach to take would be a long-term plan of the NRL creating both a north island and South Island junior rugby league program which would see the NRL fund both north island and South Island u16’s&u18’s teams that would compete in the NSW competitions. These 2 teams could target the talent rich NZRU schoolboy competitions as well as the local NZRL schoolboy talent. Also both the north&south island teams would operate with an NFL style draft system with the team finishing dead last in the NRL having 1st pick of the best talent available.
 
Messages
3,977
The best way to hurt NZRU in the short-term would be for NRL clubs to sign up around half a dozen current All Blacks and that number again of non/fringe All Blacks from super rugby Aotearoa clubs for the next 5 years but this approach would ultimately fail in the end because it’s far too costly and risky in terms of converting top union players into top league players. Plus the fact that the rugby union infrastructures in New Zealand would still be in place after 5 years of constant NRL raids and there still wouldn’t be any RL equivalent in NZ other than the warriors setup.

A far better approach to take would be a long-term plan of the NRL creating both a north island and South Island junior rugby league program which would see the NRL fund both north island and South Island u16’s&u18’s teams that would compete in the NSW competitions. These 2 teams could target the talent rich NZRU schoolboy competitions as well as the local NZRL schoolboy talent. Also both the north&south island teams would operate with an NFL style draft system with the team finishing dead last in the NRL having 1st pick of the best talent available.
We need to add NZ 2 within a few years of Bris 2. A weekly game in NZ will give our sport more media coverage and provide another 30 New Zealanders with the option to earn a living without moving abroad.
 

cumbrian Mackem

Juniors
Messages
994
Never going to happen but the my ideal scenario would be :-

1. Demerge the west tigers and relocate the tigers to Brisbane giving you Brisbane2.

2. Merge western suburbs with the Canterbury bulldogs giving you the western bulldogs or west Sydney bulldogs playing out of Liverpool.

3. Perth pirates become the 17th NRL franchise for 2023.


4. Christchurch bulls become the 18th NRL franchise for 2027.

Job done 👍
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
2,793
Now if you said that that fear of creating competitors was holding RL back from growing in Australia because Sydney was scared that success in the other capital cities would shake their power over the sport, just like the Broncos did, then I'd agree with you, to an extent. But they aren't scared of the influence of the NZRL, PNGRL, etc.

Yeah, I think that's more what I was getting at. NSW has had a hard enough time coping with Queensland dominating Origin for an era & the Storm being a constant power in club footy (albeit with little to no home-grown talent).. just imagine the reaction if Perth, Melbourne & Adelaide really started churning out talented players.
 

davi

Juniors
Messages
1,918
Jets joining forces with Firehawks would make it a true southern Brisbane team with a huge catchment. Having Logan and Ipswich would give the Firehawks a massive advantage over Broncos.

I still think there is a whiff of desperation in merging bids so late in the peace. It just seems smells to me that Redcliffe are going to get it if a license gets eventually offered. And the NRL may not look on so favorably in quickly scurrying something together although Vlandy's insisted the bid is stronger if the merger happens. The spokesperson for the Dolphins was on the Sunday Footy Show today and he was asked about players and coaches. And he calmly said the Dolphins has made a decision to consistently not comment on potential players or coaches from other NRL clubs. That's unlike other bids who have been mentioning coaches and players all in the sake of getting some media attention (Meninga, Bellamy, Bennett) have all been mentioned to attract a headline.
 
Messages
3,977
I still think there is a whiff of desperation in merging bids so late in the peace. It just seems smells to me that Redcliffe are going to get it if a license gets eventually offered. And the NRL may not look on so favorably in quickly scurrying something together although Vlandy's insisted the bid is stronger if the merger happens. The spokesperson for the Dolphins was on the Sunday Footy Show today and he was asked about players and coaches. And he calmly said the Dolphins has made a decision to consistently not comment on potential players or coaches from other NRL clubs. That's unlike other bids who have been mentioning coaches and players all in the sake of getting some media attention (Meninga, Bellamy, Bennett) have all been mentioned to attract a headline.
Easts have always maintained that they're willing to work with other Queensland Cup clubs. I was hoping they would saddle up with Wynnum Manly to become the East Coast Seagulls, but Brisbane Firehawks is a better name.

Dolphins are probably 5 years ahead of Easts in preparation, so they'll most likely win the race.
 

Hartwood

Juniors
Messages
150
The Brisbane Jets have assured the NRL they will not be a financial burden on the code after brokering a $20 million commercial deal to ignite the battle for the NRL’s 17th licence.

News Corp can reveal the Jets have pulled off a five-year sponsorship contract, worth $4 million annually, in a deal that represents an expansion game-changer in the three-way fight with the Dolphins and Firehawks to become Brisbane’s second team. Just 24 hours after the Jets rejected a merger offer from the Firehawks, the Ipswich western-corridor bid has finalised a multimillion-dollar corporate deal that scuppers any concerns about their financial viability.

By their own admission, the Jets are the poorest of the three bids, with the Ipswich consortium lacking the fiscal muscle of the Dolphins’ $100 million asset base and the Firehawks’ $25 million in cash reserves.

But Jets chief Nick Livermore says their $20m commercial deal puts the western-corridor bid firmly in the frame to win the 17th licence should the NRL choose to expand for 2023 or 2024.

“With this commercial deal, we will have money from day one,” Livermore said.

“I cannot disclose the identity of the parties due to confidentiality, but we have a signed five-year agreement in place worth $4 million annually for our major sponsorship and other corporate arrangements.

“Our sponsorship deal would kick in the moment we are handed the licence.

“We have $20 million in commercial investment, so the talk about the Jets having no money is a fallacy.

“I accept we are not the richest franchise right now, but I can guarantee if the NRL gave us the licence, we would not be a drain on them.

“I want to make it clear the Firehawks approached us for merger talks and we went in with an open mind. But, ultimately, we have the funding and the development catchment in the western corridor to stand on our own two feet.”

It is understood the Jets told the Expansion Assessment Committee at last Monday week’s formal presentations they have up to $12 million in start-up capital.

Factoring in a $13 million grant from the NRL, given annually to each of the 16 clubs, the Jets could arrive at the premiership starting blocks in 2023 or 2024 with $25m to kickstart Brisbane’s second team.

While the Dolphins and Firehawks are backed by wealthy leagues clubs, Livermore urged the ARL Commission to consider the benefits of a Jets franchise funded by private-equity investment.

“The three most financially successful clubs in the NRL — the Broncos, South Sydney and the Melbourne Storm — are not bankrolled by Leagues Clubs,” Livermore said.

“In effect, we would be replicating the frontrunners, not the cellar dwellers.

“We don’t possess the financial strength of the Firehawks and the Dolphins but that doesn’t mean we can’t be a viable NRL club.

“The leagues club model is archaic.

“We are really proud that the money we have raised is not generated by taking money from everyday Australians putting money into poker machines, which happens under the leagues club model.

“On top of our commercial deals, we have a letter of support from the Ipswich City Council and they will provide financial support pending the ARL Commission awarding us the licence.

“I can understand the ARL Commission having concerns around the financial viability of a new team given the challenges the 16 clubs have faced with Covid in recent years.

“But the Jets are here to grow the game, not put a strain on it.”
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
44,355
Thats good news for them. I wonder if its a single sponsor or numerous ones? Most clubs are bringing in about $6mill a year in sponsorship so thats a pretty good start for them. I wonder where the $12mill start up cash has come from? I dont really see the need for that level of start up cash tbh but I guess it gives a buffer if crowds or corporates aren't delivered in first few years.

he's right about the LC model but sadly that seems to be what the NRL wants.
Shame the joint bid didnt come off. $37mill cash on the table plus this big sponsor plus Firehawks pokie den would have blown Dolphins out of the water.
 
Top