Bud News

[JubileeJeffro]

The reality is if we don’t get rid of the whinging hunt, and his over inflated Salary we won’t really change the squad much until 2025.

 

[True_Believer]

They didn't play 21 cup games in 21. Dragons played 13 games before the season was curtailed due to Covid. I don't know how many of them Bud played. If he played those 13 plus the 5 NRL games, that's a pretty fair effort. Certainly doesn't make him injury prone.

In regards to providing facts, YOU have made the claim that Bud is injury prone. YOU need to provide the facts to support your case, not me. So far you've only offered up some very flimsy evidence.

Lol - righto. I've given you 3 confirmed injuries over the last 2 years (which, if you had been following the team you would know were fact already) with news articles stating there were large chunks of time out with hamstring injuries during 21. If that's not enough evidence for you in the 3 years he's been playing, then I don't know what else to say. Not that I think it will make any difference, but here are the articles:

Soward mentions a couple of hamstring injuries over the last couple of years in August 22

Sidelined for most of 2021 - hamstring

2021 - toe injury

Stated 2-3 weeks 2022 - shoulder

6 weeks out during 2023 pre-season - hamstring

Miss the remainder of the 2023 season - 8 wees/7games

NRL Physio expressing concern over his ongoing hamstring injuries

You are right, There were 13 Cup games in 21 - Bud played 3 of them. 5 of the available 25 games in the NRL. If he was fully fit I would assume he would have played more games across both comps. Sorry though, I don't have any "evidence" to justify my statement there other than those articles above indicating he spent a long period of time on the sideline that year.

As Parko has stated and as I've linked the medical research paper regarding hamstring injuries, the fact he's had so many this early in his career, there's a very high chance it will be reoccurring and likely periods of at least 6 weeks on the sideline at a time.

As I also said in my original post, if the Tigers can help get him on top of it, then we can revisit him at a later date. In the next 2 years we need to spend that money elsewhere as we need players on the field.

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

Lol - righto. I've given you 3 confirmed injuries over the last 2 years (which, if you had been following the team you would know were fact already) with news articles stating there were large chunks of time out with hamstring injuries during 21. If that's not enough evidence for you in the 3 years he's been playing, then I don't know what else to say. Not that I think it will make any difference, but here are the articles:

Soward mentions a couple of hamstring injuries over the last couple of years in August 22

Sidelined for most of 2021 - hamstring

2021 - toe injury

Stated 2-3 weeks 2022 - shoulder

6 weeks out during 2023 pre-season - hamstring

Miss the remainder of the 2023 season - 8 wees/7games

NRL Physio expressing concern over his ongoing hamstring injuries

You are right, There were 13 Cup games in 21 - Bud played 3 of them. 5 of the available 25 games in the NRL. If he was fully fit I would assume he would have played more games across both comps. Sorry though, I don't have any "evidence" to justify my statement there other than those articles above indicating he spent a long period of time on the sideline that year.

As Parko has stated and as I've linked the medical research paper regarding hamstring injuries, the fact he's had so many this early in his career, there's a very high chance it will be reoccurring and likely periods of at least 6 weeks on the sideline at a time.

As I also said in my original post, if the Tigers can help get him on top of it, then we can revisit him at a later date. In the next 2 years we need to spend that money elsewhere as we need players on the field.

OK, noted. Looks like hamstring injuries are a concern. Mind you, here are a few other players who have had hamstring problems in their careers:
Nathan Cleary (https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2023-nathan-cleary-hamstring-injury)
Lattrell Mitchell (https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/latrell-mitchell-to-miss-eight-weeks-with-hamstring-tear)
Kotoni Staggs (https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/staggs-injured-at-broncos-nrl-training)
Tom Trbojevic (too many references)
Jonathan Thurston (https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...-quiet-on-johnathan-thurston-hamstring-injury)
Reece Walsh (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-26/maroons-bolter-walsh-ruled-out-of-origin/100246996)
Billy Slater (https://www.melbournestorm.com.au/news/2018/06/15/hamstring-rules-slater-out)
And that's just a cursory look. No doubt there are many others.

That's an awful lot of good players who seem to go alright despite hamstring issues. Bud has just landed a four year contract so that suggests the problem is manageable. If you think we are likely to be able to get Bud back in a couple of years, I think you are kidding yourself. He won't be back. If you think the money that Bud is on will help us attract another promising half, I very much doubt it. It may help us get another Josh McCrone, that's about it. If you think it's a good idea to get rid of juniors to free up space to bring in marquee players, well have a look at the marquee players we've been able to attract in recent years.

Honestly sometimes I just despair at the strategic direction the club is taking.

 

[Parko1310]

Or we could have kept Sullivan, released CHunt along with the others tapped on the shoulder and freed up a heck of a lot more money. Far smarter.

That sounds alright on the surface, but the reality is whether people will like to admit it or not, Hunt is a very good player. He's not been playing well recently I will say. But you get rid of Hunt, and you have all this freed up money for what? Sullivan is likely to be injured for one, so that's a gaping hole in your side at halfback. But the biggest thing is who in their right mind that has any note in the game is coming to this club to play in this team minus Ben Hunt? Absolutely no one. He is at this stage our only real drawcard player to play with. People will say money talks, but the discrepancy in what we can pay without Ben Hunt and what others can pay with already better rosters is not large enough to come here and get flogged every week with seemingly no hope. Whether people like to admit it or not, Hunt is very fondly looked upon by his peers and is thus someone who can bring others to the club. Yes we'll still have to pay overs, but without him there is genuinely no hope of getting anyone. No one at other clubs is looking at Sullivan at this stage of his career and thinking wow I want to play with him.

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

Not sure what I have missed, but comparing Bud to the likes of Cleary, Latrell, Thurston, Tom Turbo etc etc....bit of a stretch imo. I have not seen one game over the last 3 or 4 years to say he is going to make it as an NRL halfback. Can't say he hasn't been given a fair crack at it, with the number of games he played this year. And a good chance that off field issues, his Dad, his manager, all had a bit to do with the decision to let him go, not just his hamstrings.

 

[True_Believer]

OK, noted. Looks like hamstring injuries are a concern. Mind you, here are a few other players who have had hamstring problems in their careers:
Nathan Cleary (https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2023-nathan-cleary-hamstring-injury)
Lattrell Mitchell (https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/latrell-mitchell-to-miss-eight-weeks-with-hamstring-tear)
Kotoni Staggs (https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/staggs-injured-at-broncos-nrl-training)
Tom Trbojevic (too many references)
Jonathan Thurston (https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...-quiet-on-johnathan-thurston-hamstring-injury)
Reece Walsh (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-26/maroons-bolter-walsh-ruled-out-of-origin/100246996)
Billy Slater (https://www.melbournestorm.com.au/news/2018/06/15/hamstring-rules-slater-out)
And that's just a cursory look. No doubt there are many others.

That's an awful lot of good players who seem to go alright despite hamstring issues. Bud has just landed a four year contract so that suggests the problem is manageable. If you think we are likely to be able to get Bud back in a couple of years, I think you are kidding yourself. He won't be back. If you think the money that Bud is on will help us attract another promising half, I very much doubt it. It may help us get another Josh McCrone, that's about it. If you think it's a good idea to get rid of juniors to free up space to bring in marquee players, well have a look at the marquee players we've been able to attract in recent years.

Honestly sometimes I just despair at the strategic direction the club is taking.

You've completely missed the point with Bud's injuries. I'm not going to waste any more time with this discussion.

 

[Dragonsteve2]

An interesting discussion. My own view is:
1. I am disappointed that Bud has gone, just like many posters.
2. His injuries and Griffin's selection policy prevented Bud from having a red hot crack at the NRL over the past two seasons.
3. Bud's games in KOE Cup in the first half of this year revealed real talent in directing the team around the park. The team was so much better for his direction. Suddenly wins began to occur instead of big losses.
4. He showed flair in isolated incidents in the NRL, not an ability to direct the team. Some may argue that was due to the way Hunt played or Griffin coached but he appeared lost in his couple of games as starting halfback. I admit that Griffin's criticism of Bud's crosskick for Zac in the Brisbane game was an outrageously unfair public comment and that would be enough for many young players to look elsewhere.
5. But wasn't it Bud's manager who initiated the request for a release this time? In that case, with Flano wanting to improve the culture, wasn't it a fair decision to say see what you can find out there?
6. While having no private intelligence on this, I believe Bud could be a difficult personality to work with. The 2022 request for a release would support this, so too a few hot-headed actions I have seen on the field like his two reports in the one game including a trip early this season. His sister complaining about his exclusion from the NRL team on social media was not the best look either.

 

[saintmar]

That sounds alright on the surface, but the reality is whether people will like to admit it or not, Hunt is a very good player. He's not been playing well recently I will say. But you get rid of Hunt, and you have all this freed up money for what? Sullivan is likely to be injured for one, so that's a gaping hole in your side at halfback. But the biggest thing is who in their right mind that has any note in the game is coming to this club to play in this team minus Ben Hunt? Absolutely no one. He is at this stage our only real drawcard player to play with. People will say money talks, but the discrepancy in what we can pay without Ben Hunt and what others can pay with already better rosters is not large enough to come here and get flogged every week with seemingly no hope. Whether people like to admit it or not, Hunt is very fondly looked upon by his peers and is thus someone who can bring others to the club. Yes we'll still have to pay overs, but without him there is genuinely no hope of getting anyone. No one at other clubs is looking at Sullivan at this stage of his career and thinking wow I want to play with him.

Don't think an ageing guy nearing the end of his career is a draw card.
Proven by the fact that no big names have been attracted in the past six years to play with him especially after he sucks alot more than his value in the cap.
On the other hand joining a club on the rise with a young promising roster is far more appealing.
Player managers won't advise a player to join a club who likes to talk about pathways and then go in a dads army direction.

 

[dragon thomo]

OK its a shame it didnt work out with Sullivan but he is gone now so lets drop the thread. I agree with the other thread about useing the extra coin to purchase some forwards.

 

[steerlerbab]

OK its a shame it didnt work out with Sullivan but he is gone now so lets drop the thread. I agree with the other thread about useing the extra coin to purchase some forwards.

With money freed, I will go for another spine marquee player: five eight or lock. Let's hope Sloane can step up and become our marquee fullback.

 

[Carlton]

I was a Bud fan from when I saw him play in the Koori cup as a 17 year old.

I am disappointed he is going but if the decision has been made due to cost, injuries and perhaps attitude then I have to trust at this stage that it is the best decision for the team. I am also disappointed Hunt is staying and dont accept that he is our best player just because he touches the ball the most and has the team playing to his tune. I am hoping that Hunts staying is smoke and mirrors and he moves on and we have somone lined up who can direct the team around the park and manage the game.

For me the biggest issue with Bud leaving is that he has not been given a real opportunity in first grade, we still dont know whether he could make it or not. The few first grade appearances he has had have been for short periods from the interchange playing hooker, 5/8 with Hunt who makes it obvious he is not happy playing with Bud and a couple of games at half (one in particular where he was instructed not to do anything). This is not a fair run if you are serious about finding out if he is your future half.

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

You've completely missed the point with Bud's injuries. I'm not going to waste any more time with this discussion.

Funny, I could have said exactly the same thing.

 

[True_Believer]

Funny, I could have said exactly the same thing.

The difference is that the examples you've provided prove you've missed the point. Talking about flimsy evidence...

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

The difference is that the examples you've provided prove you've missed the point. Talking about flimsy evidence...

Well, all the arguements are out there. People can make their own mind up about who has the flimsiest evidence.