Building the next NZ team

[The Great Dane]

Why bother then? Just start from scratch

A new start is kind of the whole point of relocations.

The purpose of relocating is to move the club to a new market in pursuit of commercial advantages, often in an attempt to literally trade one customer base for another that's perceived as being better for whatever reasons. If that requires rebranding to be successful then it is what it is, and that'd likely be the best way forward in the case of relocating an Australian side to NZ, or most other markets in Australia frankly.

There're also benefits for the old market if you leave the name and records behind. Take the Cleveland Browns in the NFL for example; technically the Baltimore Ravens are the original Browns, but their owner Art Modell was convinced to leave the brand and records behind when he relocated so the city could use the Browns brand when they bid for a new team, which they did, making the current Browns a phoenix club of sorts.

 

[Canard]

A new start is kind of the whole point of relocations.

The purpose of relocating is to move the club to a new market in pursuit of commercial advantages, often in an attempt to literally trade one customer base for another that's perceived as being better for whatever reasons. If that requires rebranding to be successful then it is what it is, and that'd likely be the best way forward in the case of relocating an Australian side to NZ, or most other markets in Australia frankly.

There're also benefits for the old market if you leave the name and records behind. Take the Cleveland Browns in the NFL for example; technically the Baltimore Ravens are the original Browns, but their owner Art Modell was convinced to leave the brand and records behind when he relocated so the city could use the Browns brand when they bid for a new team, which they did, making the current Browns a phoenix club of sorts.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

The Ravens were the Browns rebranded and took the players, coaches, NFL licence etc with them, they only thing left behind was the Browns IP.

I thought you were suggesting that a club move to another location rebrand, and the v original club remain, under separate management at a lower level. If it's option 1, I understand.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

America's sports culture is completely different to the way we do things in Australia. Two very different markets.

 

[The Great Dane]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

The Ravens were the Browns rebranded and took the players, coaches, NFL licence etc with them, they only thing left behind was the Browns IP.

I thought you were suggesting that a club move to another location rebrand, and the v original club remain, under separate management at a lower level. If it's option 1, I understand.

Either or can work when done properly.

The side in the lower tier wouldn't be under different management though. Well, I guess a subsidiary could run it or something, but you know what I mean. The club would relocate taking all the valuable assets with it to the new market, but maintain the old club in a reduced capacity in the lower tiers to hold onto the old junior pathway and other valuable assets that can't be moved. That side could even be a profitable venture in it's own right if you were smart about it and live within your means.

It's not really that much different than teams like the Panthers and Raiders owning LC's all over the joint and effectively taking over the local grassroots, it's just different circumstances allowing the relocated club to achieve a similar goal in a slightly different way.

There's always the other option as well; relocate and rebrand for the new market, but hold onto the old IP and continue to produce merch for the defunct team, cynically making millions of dollars in the process. That happens pretty often as well, like the Carolina Hurricanes and NHL with the Hartford IP for example.

 

[The Great Dane]

America's sports culture is completely different to the way we do things in Australia. Two very different markets.

North America's sporting culture is the most analogous to ours on the planet.

They certainly aren't so different that relocation hasn't been successful here, and there's no reason why it couldn't be successful again, or that we couldn't learn from them about the dos and don'ts considering that they're the experts.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

North America's sporting culture is the most analogous to ours on the planet.

They certainly aren't so different that relocation hasn't been successful here, and there's no reason why it couldn't be successful again, or that we couldn't learn from them about the dos and don'ts considering that they're the experts.

I wouldn't say Americans are "experts". Most of their stadia don't even have a roof to protect fans from the sun, rainfall and snow.

The only reason America's big four sports leagues are successful is because he country has more than 331m people, most of whom are ignorant to anything that happens outside of the US. Australians are more open minded and willing to embrace foreign culture. It helps that most Americans are dumb hillbillies who couldn't locate Australia on a map and think the Queen made England's laws from her throne while drinking tea.

 

[The Great Dane]

I wouldn't say Americans are "experts".

The Americans (including Canadians) are absolutely the pre-eminent experts in relocating professional sports teams.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The Americans (including Canadians) are absolutely the pre-eminent experts in relocating professional sports teams.

America can do it because they've got 330m people spread out over numerous major metropolitan areas. We only have five metropolitan areas and our two main leagues are extensions of suburban competitions from Sydney and Melbourne.

Canada fields a few teams in America's competitions.

The only major Canadian competition I can think of is the CFL. Its teams aren't very popular and there's only nine of them. They have weird names, too.

 

[The Great Dane]

America can do it because they've got 330m people spread out over numerous major metropolitan areas. We only have five metropolitan areas and our two main leagues are extensions of suburban competitions from Sydney and Melbourne.

Canada fields a few teams in America's competitions.

The only major Canadian competition I can think of is the CFL. Its teams aren't very popular and there's only a dozen of them. They have weird names, too.

The first sentence is just an argument of scale and the rest is irrelevant or just plain wrong, and you're wandering so far from the point that it's insane.

BTW, ice hockey was invented in Canada, codified in Montreal, and the NHL was founded on 26/11/1917 in Montreal Quebec by Canadian businessmen. Ice Hockey and the NHL are by far the biggest sport and league in Canada to this day. There are nine teams in the CFL , not 12, none of which have particularly weird names.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The first sentence is just an argument of scale and the rest is irrelevant or just plain wrong, and you're wandering so far from the point that it's insane.

BTW, ice hockey was invented in Canada, codified in Montreal, and the NHL was founded on 26/11/1917 in Montreal Quebec by Canadian businessmen. Ice Hockey and the NHL are by far the biggest sport and league in Canada to this day. There are nine teams in the CFL , not 12, none of which have particularly weird names.

Hamilton Tiger-Cats
Ottawa Redblacks
Montreal Alouettes
Toronto Argonauts
Winnipeg Blue Bombers
Saskatchewan Roughriders
Edmonton Elks
Calgary Stampeders
British Columbia Lions

At least eight of the nine clubs have names that wouldn't work in Australia.

The NHL has 32 teams. Only 7 are from Canada.

There are more CFL teams than there are Canadian NHL teams.

 

[The Great Dane]

Hamilton Tiger-Cats
Ottawa Redblacks
Montreal Alouettes
Toronto Argonauts
Winnipeg Blue Bombers
Saskatchewan Roughriders
Edmonton Elks
Calgary Stampeders
British Columbia Lions

At least eight of the nine clubs have names that wouldn't work in Australia.

Only two of those names aren't self explanatory, and pretty much all of them have equivalents in Australia. I can explain them to you if you like?

The NHL has 32 teams. Only 7 are from Canada.

There are more CFL teams than there are Canadian NHL teams.

That's nice, doesn't change the fact that the NHL is a Canadian institution and that all of it's founding members were Canadian. The reasons there're more American teams than Canadian in the league should be obvious.

Despite there being more American teams Canadians have always made up the largest percentage of the players as well, and it's not even close.

None of this has anything to do with North Americans having the most experience with relocation either. . .

 

[Canard]

Hamilton Tiger-Cats
Ottawa Redblacks
Montreal Alouettes
Toronto Argonauts
Winnipeg Blue Bombers
Saskatchewan Roughriders
Edmonton Elks
Calgary Stampeders
British Columbia Lions

At least eight of the nine clubs have names that wouldn't work in Australia.

The NHL has 32 teams. Only 7 are from Canada.

There are more CFL teams than there are Canadian NHL teams.

Tell me your an insular Bogan from Logan, without..

In a comp with a team called the Rabbitohs, we can't throw stones

 

[Matua]

America's sports culture is completely different to the way we do things in Australia. Two very different markets.

This is supposed to be a thread about NZ.

 

[flippikat]

This is supposed to be a thread about NZ.

Getting this back on track, the Crusaders start to this current Super Rugby season is unusual.

It will be interesting to see If they click into gear at some stage, or if this really is a rebuilding phase. If it's a rebuilding phase over a few seasons then that's a great opportunity for the NRL to get in.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

This is supposed to be a thread about NZ.

NZ2 and NZ3 have my vote for two of the next three NRL licences. If I had to choose between placing two teams in New Zealand or expanding into Adelaide and Perth, I'd choose the former. The biggest drawback with Perth is its time zone. Four hours behind New Zealand. Five hours when daylight savings are in effect.

The buzz in New Zealand at the moment is unlikely to be replicated with a Perth-based team. Perth adds no value to Test football, either. New Zealand 2 and 3 can help strengthen the Kiwis, Tonga and Samoa.

 

[Perth Red]

NZ2 and NZ3 have my vote for two of the next three NRL licences. If I had to choose between placing two teams in New Zealand or expanding into Adelaide and Perth, I'd choose the former.

Really? Geez you haven’t told us that before lol.

 

[Matua]

NZ2 and NZ3 have my vote for two of the next three NRL licences. If I had to choose between placing two teams in New Zealand or expanding into Adelaide and Perth, I'd choose the former. The biggest drawback with Perth is its time zone. Four hours behind New Zealand. Five hours when daylight savings are in effect.

The buzz in New Zealand at the moment is unlikely to be replicated with a Perth-based team. Perth adds no value to Test football, either. New Zealand 2 and 3 can help strengthen the Kiwis, Tonga and Samoa.

I don't want us strengthening Tonga and Samoa as well as providing contracts to journeymen Aussies.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I don't want us strengthening Tonga and Samoa as well as providing contracts to journeymen Aussies.

Imagine the buzz of having an annual Samoa vs Tonga series in New Zealand?

Local governments would love the money it would draw.

I'd love to see Australia vs New Zealand have a higher profile. Adding more New Zealand teams will strengthen the rivalry between Australia and New Zealand.

 

[Matua]

Imagine the buzz of having an annual Samoa vs Tonga series in New Zealand?

Local governments would love the money it would draw.

I'd love to see Australia vs New Zealand have a higher profile. Adding more New Zealand teams will strengthen the rivalry between Australia and New Zealand.

I thought you meant using the NZ2 to develop Tonga and Samoa players.

Also, the annual series relies on both those teams still being competitive and I'm not sure I'm as confident about that as I was a few years ago.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I thought you meant using the NZ2 to develop Tonga and Samoa players.

Also, the annual series relies on both those teams still being competitive and I'm not sure I'm as confident about that as I was a few years ago.

Samoa vs Tonga is the only representative fixture outside of Origin that can be marketable. We need it to work.