bye bye balmain and magpies

[Balmainia]

I didn't follow football as closely as I do now when the clubs merged but the media had Balmain Tigers merging with Parramatta and it turned out to be Wests, now that was quite a shock to my system from the beginning.

However, my lay following at the time consisted of first grade and I'm happy with Wests Tigers

I think Wests and Balmain need to get the hell over their differences for the sake of the game

A lower grade merger is a necessary evil in my eyes and based on this years results with a slight flavour of Wests

 

[magpiemax]

for as long as there is posts like this doing the rounds,the wests tigers will never be a fully united team

 

[B_Tiger]

B_Tiger: I think you are being too pessimistic. Will limit my comments to Balmain as I dont know the details of Magpies. Taking Balmain I reckon lots of the voting members of the football club dont go to games at all but we should not discount them as they would have a vote.
There was a strong minority who opposed the JV (200 or so). I am sure we can build on that and other members who dont want to see Balmain disappear completely but who support the JV. Sure on here we are only a few and we care passionately but the onus will be on us to make a strong and convincing case.

while I agree that balmain members would without a doubt vote against merging lower grades at this stage, I think it eventually will happen. Balmain fans are dealing with the realisation that they no longer have a first grade identity and as such the possibility of merging balmain in lower grades seems an impossible thing to accept. But given time, the members would eventually support it. They don't care enough about the club to attend matches and as such I don't see them caring enough about it to keep balmain. Balmain are fragile financially (as are wests), I imagine the balmain board will continue to make that clear to the members and get them prepared to merge.

From a purely unbiased perspective (if there is such a thing), the best decision for all clubs involved is to merge lower grade. Balmain and the magpies have very few supporters and as such there is very little reason for them to be kept, the maintaining of two first divsion clubs is a large expense that would be halved if the two clubs merged and balmain and wests players will develop together enhancing their success when they enter first grade together. Tim Sheens has already put together a joint development team in the tiger cubs matches played this year and the success of the team proves how succesful a model of one team in lower grades can be. I hate the idea of merging the clubs but why keep them when very few give a shit? At leichhardt the ground is pretty empty right up until there is only 20 minutes left in the first division match. very few fans would be lost by merging the clubs. yappy and his group of 6,000 diehard fans will be lost, as will some of the members of the huge BTFG but apart from that just about everyone will continue to support the merger.

what case can we raise against that? I think it all comes down to whether or not people show up. I mean, we can argue that the heritage of our club must be represented in lower grades but that is really only the opinion of a few people, the majority don't show up and therefore are not willing to devote time and a few bucks to the balmain tigers. The ladies of the balmain tigers and the family of tigers players are about the only people who show up these days. It is embaressing for a team whose football club members claim that the team is essential to their continued support of BTFC. Whatever our argument, I don't think it is a viable one if not even 500 people turn up to watch a traditional match up between balmain and newtown at leichhardt. I mean, if there was an interest in maintaining balmain then 3000 would have shown up. Instead a crowd of 3000 is completely impossible for a match like that. I just don't think enough people care.

 

[B_Tiger]

for as long as there is posts like this doing the rounds,the wests tigers will never be a fully united team

why does everyone bring up unity? who cares if we aren't unified? and what the hell would that achieve if we were? I won't ever love campbelltown and I will always hate the magpie on the sleeve of a tigers jersey. Just as other people will love campbelltown and the bird. It really doesn't matter if we agree or not, the main thing is supporting the club. Does anyone really expect balmain fans to accept travelling to campbelltown as they would going to leichhardt? No, there will always be resentment there and nothing will change that, ever.

 

[Gobbso]

for as long as there is posts like this doing the rounds,the wests tigers will never be a fully united team

why does everyone bring up unity? who cares if we aren't unified? and what the hell would that achieve if we were? I won't ever love campbelltown and I will always hate the magpie on the sleeve of a tigers jersey. Just as other people will love campbelltown and the bird. It really doesn't matter if we agree or not, the main thing is supporting the club. Does anyone really expect balmain fans to accept travelling to campbelltown as they would going to leichhardt? No, there will always be resentment there and nothing will change that, ever.

Sad but true. And that's just the essence of a Joint-Venture. Nothing is ever going to be perfect or harmonious! Unity does exist, only in 1st Grade as both clubs are partner's in the Elite competition. But apart from that, bitter rivals. And that's the way it will remain.

 

[King Tigerman]

question to people who want reserve grade merged , do you want george stone to run balmain? becuase thats what will happen & well have to strt looking at house prices in surfers paradise

 

[yappy]

B - you forget the most important thing. Who the hell owns the club. That's right - the members. We may not seem a great deal at a game, but we make up a solid majority at an AGM and we won't be voting to merge - end of argument. Money we will find as is required. Newtown run on far less than we do (and doing so actually seems to help the spirit at the place). The current Wests board is quite different to the one we had in 99 (thankfully) only three current members were there then and two of those are staunch anti-merger. Of the new additions two of the three are also Black and White to the bone. I also get a very strong feeling that the seventh member (to be elected at the next AGM) will be a particularly anti-merger individual. The other two aren't so much pro-merger as 'pliable', but at 5 to 2 at best - it won't even get to a vote.

Best to get over it already. You can get exited about it in September 2004 if you want to waste you time again.

 

[Bald Tiger]

My understanding of B_Tigers view is not that he is pro-JV but rather he just sees the merger of lower grades as inevitable given the lack of interest of club members in Balmain games. And thats a fair point - one of the best games in any grade I saw all season was the last minute win by Balmain over Parra - but there were only about 200 supporters there. But lets say the lower grades were merged would the crowds be any different. I doubt it. The crowd would still turn up 20 or so minutes before the main game and take in a bit of PL. They certainly would not go and watch a PL game as a stand alone. So if its not a crowd issue then its down to the cost cutting. Sorry but at some point you have to draw a line in the sand. I dont mind if its only the four members of the Balmain Tigers Fan Group, a few others, Des and his mate barracking on the hill, family, friends, the ladies selling raffle tickets and the ball boys. Yes thats my team. You just cant buy and sell everything. Yes lets stick with the JV, but then lets have rivalry in PL between our own Balmain and Magpies teams. Tradition, community and history do matter.

 

[Gobbso]

The current Wests board is quite different to the one we had in 99 (thankfully) only three current members were there then and two of those are staunch anti-merger. Of the new additions two of the three are also Black and White to the bone. I also get a very strong feeling that the seventh member (to be elected at the next AGM) will be a particularly anti-merger individual. The other two aren't so much pro-merger as 'pliable', but at 5 to 2 at best - it won't even get to a vote.

On that note Yapster, any word on who the new member/director will be? And will this new member bring some strong business expertise on board? Also what's going on with this business plan? I'm looking at the one we received at the last AGM and nothing has happened. Well nothing, us the members are being told about anyway...for example, the "Think Tank"

 

[tigger]

Balmain could be doing a lot more to promote the PL games. Just like in the NRL the target/revenue money does not come from the fans that show up every week, it is targeting the fans that only go once or twice a year & getting them to turn up every week. There is no community promotion in Balmain, i remember when every shop on Darling street had Black & Gold in their windows, now you would be lucky to see a Balmain jersey in the street. The other unfortunate thing is that success brings in the bandwagoners who are worth a lot of cash. Look at Penrith, they start winning and everyone wants a piece, look at the Northern Spirit, they start losing and all of a sudden its me & the English firm and a couple of seagulls.

 

[Bald Tiger]

Tigger: Northern Spirit and Balmain - you are a glutton for punishment.

In the list of 22 corporate sponsors of Balmain, there are none from Balmain yet the place has hundreds of businesses, albeit some are small. There are 3 sponsors from Rozelle and the rest are from all over the western suburbs including 2 even from Chipping Norton.

There are Balmain football club members who run businesses in the area. I am sure if approached with display material they would promote the Football Club - even if it was just shop window stickers.

And why doesnt the club try to promote Balmain PL games in the area? $5 for an afternoons entertainment. Plenty of space on the hill for the children to run around.

 

[B_Tiger]

Yappy, bald is right. surely you know I hate the idea of merging lower grades and I would fight it passionately. but, the fact is there is no justifiable reason to keep lower grades seperate because no one gives a shit about it. You can't tell me otherwise. Believe me, i know that balmain members would be furious at the possibility of merging lower grades (as you say wests members would). The balmain board is definately for the merger, which is a dissapointment but they would be unable to pass it through the members. My point though is that this won't last, or I believe it won't. The further we get from our clubs being seperate, the less people will care about first division. For some people, it is an opposite effect. I know bald, tigger, brook and myself have felt lower grades are now essential to our support. To take away an empty leichhardt oval on a saturday arvo to watch a balmain game is completely unnaceptable. That has become special in its own right. But we are the people who turn up. Those who don't turn up become further disconected from the clubs and will enventually not mind a merger of lower grade because of financial reasons.

on another topic...

how should balmain matches be promoted? I remember every telephone poll used to have the upcoming balmain game but that is probably too expensive. There could be a billboard put up in Balmain leagues stating the schedule and upcoming rounds. I think there is potential for a market in balmain but it really all depends on popularity and word of mouth, as tigger points out. If a few hundred new people come and enjoy the atmosphere then that can bring in additional people. One of my mates, and a business partner of bald tiger, has no interest in rugby league but enjoyed the 1st division experience and will most certainly return so there is definately an appeal to the less hyped atmosphere of a first division match. it's getting people aware, it's getting the balmain members who say this is important to them to actually turn up. Then maybe we can claim the importance of first division. As it is, I don't think either of our clubs has any argument against the merger.

 

[yappy]

Mate I know you wouldn't personally be for it, but you're being far too pessimistic. What you say about people who go to the stand alone games enjoying it and wanting to return is the secret. I have no doubt that with a bit of thought and effort both clubs can secure a solid future and maintain their identities. I know that Wests certainly are working on it. If Balmain want to give up that's up to them, but we won't be sacrificing our identity for their benefit. You see there is far more to the argument than just money.

 

[yappy]

As it is, I don't think either of our clubs has any argument against the merger.

Further to this, the Magpies board must have thought of some argument against it.

How else do you explain them sending Tim Sheens a letter inviting him to attend a Magpies board meeting at any time to discuss his ideas etc, but in the interests of not wasting his or anyone else's time informing him that the idea of merging the lower grades is simply not on, so don't bother pursuing it.

Like I said, you can all have a lie down - it isn't going to happen.

 

[Mighty Tiger]

Mate I know you wouldn't personally be for it, but you're being far too pessimistic. What you say about people who go to the stand alone games enjoying it and wanting to return is the secret. I have no doubt that with a bit of thought and effort both clubs can secure a solid future and maintain their identities. I know that Wests certainly are working on it. If Balmain want to give up that's up to them, but we won't be sacrificing our identity for their benefit. You see there is far more to the argument than just money.

Yappy spot on!

If it was only for the reason of money then the lower grades would have been merged from the start. Its not though and thats why we do still have Balmain and Western Suburbs represented in PL as stand alone identities.

 

[yappy]

And why doesnt the club try to promote Balmain PL games in the area? $5 for an afternoons entertainment. Plenty of space on the hill for the children to run around.

Of course it's great value entertainment. And next year it will be even better with Flegg going all season. Two top quality games for a fiver. Four if you Balmain guys have your Ryde Eastwood thing still going. I hope we can convince Camden to do the same with us.

As a parent it's great to be able to take my littlies and let them run around without having to worry too much about them. They've basically got free run on the hill. These are certainly some of the angles you can push to promote the game. Start promoting it heavily at the local junior league games etc and you will pick up some people.

Of course you're not going to get 10 000, but even 1500 is a pretty reasonable size crowd and very achievable, if you want it bad enough. It's never going to be an 'event' so you can't promote it like that. It can certainly be a 'community' if you make people feel a part of it.

 

[B_Tiger]

As it is, I don't think either of our clubs has any argument against the merger.

Further to this, the Magpies board must have thought of some argument against it.

How else do you explain them sending Tim Sheens a letter inviting him to attend a Magpies board meeting at any time to discuss his ideas etc, but in the interests of not wasting his or anyone else's time informing him that the idea of merging the lower grades is simply not on, so don't bother pursuing it.

Like I said, you can all have a lie down - it isn't going to happen.

they simply stated that they didn't want it and that preservation of wests magpies is the most important thing. but that isn't justifying the decision. There is no argument for why they should be kept except to preserve the name. That is all. As people don't turn up we can't say, "don't merge lower grades because people want the club there", because people couldn't give a rats arse about it. Honestly, people talk up the teams importance but their words mean f**k all when they can't even bother to show up. That is the #1 problem. When people start showing up we can start feeling secure in the future of lower grades, if they don't show up then our clubs will merge...eventually.

 

[B_Tiger]

Mate I know you wouldn't personally be for it, but you're being far too pessimistic. What you say about people who go to the stand alone games enjoying it and wanting to return is the secret. I have no doubt that with a bit of thought and effort both clubs can secure a solid future and maintain their identities. I know that Wests certainly are working on it. If Balmain want to give up that's up to them, but we won't be sacrificing our identity for their benefit. You see there is far more to the argument than just money.

Yappy spot on!

If it was only for the reason of money then the lower grades would have been merged from the start. Its not though and thats why we do still have Balmain and Western Suburbs represented in PL as stand alone identities.

my argument against staying seperate isn't based on money. f**k considering money at all. But, what should be considered is the fact that barely anyone turns up. that is my argument. Why bother with it if people don't care? Yappy will say people do care, but that is only talk, they don't show up. So people don't care,devoid of the positives and negatives of the merger people don't care about our two stand alone teams in first division so eventually they'll merge.

 

[Mighty Tiger]

my argument against staying seperate isn't based on money. f**k considering money at all. But, what should be considered is the fact that barely anyone turns up. that is my argument. Why bother with it if people don't care? Yappy will say people do care, but that is only talk, they don't show up. So people don't care,devoid of the positives and negatives of the merger people don't care about our two stand alone teams in first division so eventually they'll merge.

You make a great point because if they don't see a reason to spend the money to fund a club why do so especially when they will be trying to cost cut as much as they can now with the new pokie tax being introduced.

Also if the JV is exteneded as it has been proposed it will only be a matter of time before the lower grades are combined together!

 

[Gobbso]

Also if the JV is exteneded as it has been proposed it will only be a matter of time before the lower grades are combined together!

Which will consequently lead to the self destruction of the Joint-Venture. The Magpies will not budge. Yappy has drilled into you people (who are as thick as bricks and must have trouble taking information in and understanding it), Western Suburbs want to preserve their name in Rugby League.

If the Joint-Venture license is extended (which i believe it will be), and if their is a push from the Wests Tigers club for both Balmain and Western Suburbs to join forcers in the lower grades, the shit is seriously going to hit the fan. "It takes two to tango" so to speak and if one party doesn't want engage in a Joint-Venture while the other does it is really going to make life hard for the Joint-Venture club, as internal bickering and infighting will see it brought to its knee's.