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Can ESL clubs outbid the English Rugby clubs?

nathanwood7

Juniors
Messages
2
Absolutely, numbers of players has been consistently falling over the last decade, but the main reason i think is that it is simply impracitical to produce quality international players in a game that plays during the English winter. Players are not as skillful as they have to play in wet and muddy bogs, which also make the physical requirements less than in the super 12 for example. Successful players have to be produced in spite of their surroundings whereas rugby league players can train and play in environments conducive to improving their own game for longer periods of time. The intesnity of league also plays a part no doubt.

Union in England is a largely social game, taken much less seriously than League which tends to be vastly more competitive at all levels. If 1 million players is an accurate figure then i would guess that less than a tenth of these players regularly play serious competitive rugby. Its more about having a laugh and a beer on a saturday in a team environment. Perhaps this is something League could benefit from, but perhaps the nature of our game makes it less likely...
 
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2,807


[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Super League kick-off[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]The decade that saved a sport[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

Future is brighter than ever 10 years after switch

[/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Andy Wilson
[/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Friday February 11, 2005
[/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]

Guardian

[/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]It would be all too easy to mock the Super League on the eve of its 10th season. A competition that kicked off with Paris St-Germain versus Sheffield Eagles in front of almost 18,000 intrigued spectators at the Charlety Stadium on March 29, 1996 - encouraging rugby league evangelists to talk of expansion into Wales, the midlands, and even to Barcelona and Milan - will tonight feature matches in Hull, St Helens and Wigan.


Then tomorrow it is the big one, Leigh against Huddersfield at Hilton Park, a fixture and a location that carries all the exotic glamour of Peter Kay's Phoenix Nights.

But without the £87m that British rugby league received from Sky for agreeing to switch to a summer season in the crazy spring of 1995 - when players queued up for huge "loyalty" payments and an effigy of Maurice Lindsay was burned on the streets of Featherstone for daring to suggest that they merge with Wakefield and Castleford - it is questionable whether matches between Leigh and Huddersfield, at least at professional level, would even exist.

"There was nobody more critical of various people in rugby league, like Maurice, than me," admits David Hinchliffe, the Labour MP for Wakefield who spoke passionately against the original Super League proposals in a House of Commons debate. "But on reflection, if they hadn't taken the Murdoch money, then rugby league would have been wiped out.

"I'm not sure even Maurice could have been aware of what was about to happen when rugby union went openly professional at last. But without the Super League money, league would have lost so many more players, and we wouldn't have the game we have now - which, in my opinion, is better than ever."

"I had been aware for a while that rugby union was about to turn professional," recalled Lindsay, who after years of vilification as the Rugby Football League's chief executive returned to Wigan as chairman in 1999.

"I had a number of meetings with Vernon Pugh [the late chairman of union's International Rugby Board] at the East India Club, of all places - I'm surprised they let me through the doors.

"He and Clive Rowlands, the secretary, were openly talking about professionalism, and the possible merger between league and union. And if we hadn't effected the Super League, there's absolutely no doubt that the likes of Jason Robinson would have multiplied by hundreds."

Now British rugby league's elite club competition is undeniably stronger than it was in the winter of 1994-95, when Wigan were completing their sixth consecutive league and cup double, and Leeds were the only other full-time professional club.

The average attendance in that Stones Bitter Championship season was 5,543; in 2004, the average Super League gate was 8,833. "We wanted a full-time league of 12 clubs, whereas before we had 16, most of whom were part-time, so we could condense the talent and put on a real showcase," added Lindsay.

"We wanted a league of excellence, and I think we're well on the way to that with four or five clubs challenging regularly, others such as Warrington and Wakefield making great improvements to add strength in depth to the competition - and I don't think it's finished yet."

It is misleading to talk of summer rugby, when the season starts in February and ends in mid-October with the grand final at Old Trafford - the culmination of a play-off series to determine the champions that has been the most successful of Super League's innovations, along with the trailblazing introduction of video referees.

But after initial fears that harder pitches might lead to more injuries, the players are relieved to have escaped the darkest days of winter, not surprisingly as for them Super League has also meant full-time professionalism.

"I'd much rather play in the summer," says Terry O'Connor, the former Great Britain prop who joined Widnes from Wigan this winter and at 32 is one of a diminishing number who still remember the pre-Super League days.

"I went to watch Widnes Under-21s the other day - freezing, mate. How the speccies used to love it in the winter, I don't know. All that steam coming off players in the scrum. It's rubbish.

"Now the ground's better, the game's faster, there's less dropped balls and scrums, all the clubs seem to have gone more professional, and there's more young talent around. I don't really see how anyone can knock it."

Not many do, although there have inevitably been victims of the Super League era. The most unfortunate were Keighley Cougars, who had just won promotion to the Stones Bitter Championship under the coaching of Phil Larder when the drawbridge was pulled up in 1996.

"It was heartbreaking, because we'd invested so much in creating a dream for the town of Keighley, and then we had it dashed," reflects Mike Smith, who was one of the driving forces behind "Cougarmania".

"I think Super League is the most fantastic concept. They've switched the season to make it more conducive to attracting families, and putting on the sort of razzmatazz that helps do that. and they've all invested in community schemes, just like we did at Keighley. I still watch the game a lot, and enjoy it. It's just tarnished a bit because of what happened."

"Of course, we had to go through lots of pain," Lindsay admits, with major embarrassments including the demise of Paris after two seasons and Gateshead Thunder after one, as well as the damage done to the game's standing both nationally and in its northern strongholds by the initial controversy over the proposed mergers, which were quickly written off as a bad idea.

International rugby league, too, is still struggling to recover from Britain's willingness to sign up with Rupert Murdoch in his bid to seize television rights for the Australian game from Kerry Packer - with the summer season ensuring that Lions tours are now the high-profile preserve of the other code.

That is a huge loss but, as Lindsay says, there is plenty in the profit column to compensate, even if it is in Leigh and Leeds, rather than London and Lyon, where rugby league has benefited most from the first decade of the Super League.

[/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005[/font]

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5124574-108568,00.html
 

The Clan

Juniors
Messages
693
nospam49™ said:
First of all, the League clubs cant outbid the Enlish union teams.


English league has been terribly run from the moment it was started in the late 1800's. Because of this the game hardly expanded from Huddersfield where it was originally started.


English union on the other hand managed to spread throughout the UK. League people point to a number of reasons...but the main one was effort put in by union.



Now, union clubs....infact union at every level in the UK is so massive, they are beggining to look at English League as a feeder system.


As for SL clubs buying Australia union players.....ah....why? They are so busy buting any Aussie or Kiwi stiff from league.....why would they look at even worse union players?

What a load of absolute crap!!!!!

ESL clubs can't outbid RFU clubs thats true because the RFU are willing to pay half of the contract for a a player wanted from League.

The Union clubs are'nt national any more than League clubs are!

In fact if you take the amateur levels of both games League is played in more counties and is far more national than Union.

Union teams do covet League players but only for their skills and not because they think the ESL is a feeder system.

You realy are a plank!!
 

The Clan

Juniors
Messages
693
nospam49™ said:
See....people like him try to dance aroiund and make excuses.

The fact is the game in the UK is terrible run and has been basically since the day it started.

They didnt expand......and now its biting them in the backside.

They cant compete with union clubs....if a union club want a League player, they get them.

Considering that the game was born in Huddersfield I think the English have done pretty well.

I mean they've expanded the game to Australia and New Zealand & PNG & France etc....

I'd say taking the game half way round the world is good going!

Freak seems to forget that if it was'nt for the English bringing League to Australia we would'nt have an NRL, a SoO or any League at all!!
 
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4,975
The Clan said:
Considering that the game was born in Huddersfield I think the English have done pretty well.

I mean they've expanded the game to Australia and New Zealand & PNG & France etc....

I'd say taking the game half way round the world is good going!

Freak seems to forget that if it was'nt for the English bringing League to Australia we would'nt have an NRL, a SoO or any League at all!!

Back then Rugby League wasnt a code...it was an idea to compensate players.



What you suggesting is that England went professional....and by Australia following suit it was a direct expansion from the British game.

Ridiculous.



Oh yeah....welcome to May.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
From Rugby's Great Split by Tony Collins - a good read:

...it appears that George Smith, the All Black winger, stopped off in Sydney in the Spring of 1906 on his way back home from the [1905 British Isles Rugby Union] tour and discussed the situation in antipodean rugby and the Northern Union [ie. rugby league] with his Australian contacts (p217).

Certainly in New Zealand the return of the tourists must have been quickly followed by discussions about the Northern Union, because just twelve months later in March 1907, Albert Baskerville... anounced that a professional All Black side would tour England to play Northern Union clubs (p218).

On 8 August 1907, the New South Wales Rugby Football League was founded by cricketer Victor Trumper, entrepeneur James Giltinan and Labour Party politician Harry Hoyle.... The new organisation quickly announced a three match test series against the professional All Blacks... played under rugby union rules because the Northern Union rule books failed to arrive in time (p219).

Fair evidence for a claim the game of rugby league was brought from England to NZ and Australia, at the same time all countries were dealing with professionalism?
 

ESL - Wire

Juniors
Messages
89
nospam49™ said:
**** me. :rolleyes:


The documented evidence you provided IS NOT EXPANSION YOU IDIOT!

Shut up you c*ck, you really are a frustrating idiot. Never have you listen to anyone else apart from yourself. Do everyone a favour and pull the bloody plug from your computer.

:)
 
Messages
4,975
ESL - Wire said:
Shut up you c*ck, you really are a thrustrating idiot. Never have you listen to anyone else apart from yourself. Do everyone a favour and pull the bloody plug from your computer.

:)

:lol:


Thats gold! :lol:
 

ESL - Wire

Juniors
Messages
89
nospam49™ said:
:lol:


Thats gold! :lol:

Funny you pick on my spelling, because when you post on RLFANS, you never seem to string a sentence together.

As they say "Pot calling the kettle black":rolleyes:
 
Messages
4,975
ESL - Wire said:
Funny you pick on my spelling, because when you post on RLFANS, you never seem to string a sentence together.

As they say "Pot calling the kettle black":rolleyes:


Its ok...have a cry... :lol:
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
nospam49™ said:
The documented evidence you provided IS NOT EXPANSION YOU IDIOT!

Well compared to the definition of expansion you have (not) given... *shrugs* :rolleyes:
 

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