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Can we learn something from super rugby?

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
14,936
No, I just don't really know what it had to do with my comment that the NRL wouldn't go out of its way to try clash with Super Rugby.

Well, my comment was that the NRL won't care what time the Force are playing, they will play when it maximises TV audiences on the East Coast.

If that clashes with the Force then tough.
 

RoosTah

Juniors
Messages
2,257
Well, my comment was that the NRL won't care what time the Force are playing, they will play when it maximises TV audiences on the East Coast.

If that clashes with the Force then tough.

Yeah, if it was a side like the dogs you're probably right that the benefits would outweigh the losses easily. A side like Manly or Easts against the Pirates the same night the Force played the Tahs would probably be looked at differently though, but only if the NRL was a Fox only game.
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
14,936
Yeah, if it was a side like the dogs you're probably right that the benefits would outweigh the losses easily. A side like Manly or Easts against the Pirates the same night the Force played the Tahs would probably be looked at differently though, but only if the NRL was a Fox only game.

All their home games will be Fox only.

Even Pirates v Titans will outrate any game the Force plays...
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
68,271
Perth Red; serious question.

If the Pirates, Reds or whatever get in what does it mean for The Force?

Could be a big hit for them and they are currently on thin ice. I know a lot of league fans who go and watch them as it is the only option if you can't stand afl and want to get out to a game. Having said that they can't be terrible on the field for ever and if they ever do get good we know their is a latent Sth african and English fanbase that has given up on them.

Where it would hurt them most is in Jnr development. At moment most under 16's play Union and league and with no NRL team the attraction of a professional pathway is luring the best of them to union at under 18's.
 

Hound of Ulster

Juniors
Messages
7
The NFL is the best run competition on the planet, but with both salary caps/floors and a draft it is arguably far more "socialist" than any competition in Australia, and it is organised that way because it ensures a more competitive and unpredictable product.

Most of the NFL's revenue is through television contracts, and that revenue is spread evenly among its 32 teams. Additionally, governments have paid for most of the costs of stadium-building but allow the teams to keep almost all revenue from ticket sales, concessions, parking lot fees, etc. It's a damn fine racket.

However, the NFL isn't as balanced as you think. Over the last 18 seasons, just 19 different teams have played in the Super Bowl, in a league of 32 teams. In that time, 13 different teams have played in the NRL Grand Final, in a league of 16 teams. For all the parity in money and draft picks, success in American football almost always requires a great quarterback, and there will never be many of those.
 

RoosTah

Juniors
Messages
2,257
Most of the NFL's revenue is through television contracts, and that revenue is spread evenly among its 32 teams. Additionally, governments have paid for most of the costs of stadium-building but allow the teams to keep almost all revenue from ticket sales, concessions, parking lot fees, etc. It's a damn fine racket.

However, the NFL isn't as balanced as you think. Over the last 18 seasons, just 19 different teams have played in the Super Bowl, in a league of 32 teams. In that time, 13 different teams have played in the NRL Grand Final, in a league of 16 teams. For all the parity in money and draft picks, success in American football almost always requires a great quarterback, and there will never be many of those.

I ran through the finalists and champions a little while ago and did notice that, but it's still a heck of a lot more varied than a comp like the EPL, which has featured only 5 teams in the top 3 over the past 20 years, with 3 winning most of the time.

Your point about the NRL is right though, it's incredible how varied it has been. In fact twice in the past 20 years the competition has run 7 years in a row without the same team winning in that period.
 

Bronxnation

Juniors
Messages
173
I ran through the finalists and champions a little while ago and did notice that, but it's still a heck of a lot more varied than a comp like the EPL, which has featured only 5 teams in the top 3 over the past 20 years, with 3 winning most of the time.

Your point about the NRL is right though, it's incredible how varied it has been. In fact twice in the past 20 years the competition has run 7 years in a row without the same team winning in that period.

i think that we can all admit the variety and mostly unpredictable outcomes is what we love about the NRL
This is a bit off topic but is there any reason why Hawthorn have dominated the AFL the last 4 years with the salary cap and draft they have in place (i know they lost the first)
 

TheFrog

Coach
Messages
14,300
In fact twice in the past 20 years the competition has run 7 years in a row without the same team winning in that period.

While this may be so, there are certain clubs that make the finals 90% of the time, and others that only make it 10% of the time. Some teams have massive advantages. It doesn't translate to winning comps all that much (although they win it more than the average) but it does translate to far more successful seasons and all the benefits that come with them.

So don't suggest the NRL competition is played on an even playing field when clearly it is not.
 

RoosTah

Juniors
Messages
2,257
While this may be so, there are certain clubs that make the finals 90% of the time, and others that only make it 10% of the time. Some teams have massive advantages. It doesn't translate to winning comps all that much (although they win it more than the average) but it does translate to far more successful seasons and all the benefits that come with them.

So don't suggest the NRL competition is played on an even playing field when clearly it is not.

Never said it was an "even playing field" mate - just that it's a tough comp for any team to dominate. Unlike the EPL which is just about which of the big four clubs' billionaires wants to spend more.
 

Hound of Ulster

Juniors
Messages
7
I ran through the finalists and champions a little while ago and did notice that, but it's still a heck of a lot more varied than a comp like the EPL, which has featured only 5 teams in the top 3 over the past 20 years, with 3 winning most of the time.

Very true. However, the EPL doesn't have playoffs, so it would be interesting which teams would be "EPL Grand Finalists" if the season ended with a 6-8 team playoff. Neither the NFL nor the NRL have balanced schedules (nor could they), so regular season records are useful but not as conclusive as in EPL.

Interestingly, the EPL top 3 currently is Leicester, Tottie, and Arsenal. Manchester United are having trouble reorganizing after Ferguson's retirement, and Liverpool seem to have lost their mojo. It'll be interesting to see if this season is a freak outlier or the start of a new era of openness in the EPL. (And it could be even worse: Scotland is a one-team league, Spain is two-and-a-third.)

Your point about the NRL is right though, it's incredible how varied it has been. In fact twice in the past 20 years the competition has run 7 years in a row without the same team winning in that period.

And if Melbourne hadn't broken the rules, it might have been even more varied.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
68,271
Force in trouble as mentioned before. Not sure how well the Rebels are doing financially? Wonder if. Fan owned club model could work for somewhere like Newcastle Knights?

Western Force could become a fan-owned side after the Australian Rugby Union’s $800,000 buy-out of the club’s Super Rugby licence.

The deal digs the Force out of a financial hole but leaves them in control for the next 10 years with an option to buy back the licence. The financial issues put ownership back on the agenda after it was first discussed by the Force board 18 months ago.

A supporter buy-in is a favoured option.

Force chief executive Mark Sinderberry admitted the club might not have survived without the cash injection.

“We went to the ARU and said ‘we’ve got an issue here’. We discussed a number of options, they came back with this option, we took it,” he said.

“Without it we would have had to make drastic cuts to survive but we were adamant we wanted to protect the rugby program.”

The $800,000 covers losses made in the second half of last year.

“We knew what was coming but it got a whole lot worse very quickly,” Sinderberry said.

“The problem was exacerbated by a declining economy as our traditional supporters, the mining industry, came under pressure and because of the team’s decline in performance.

“We’ve still got historic problems, an accumulation of debts, that are hurting us. That will take another year to get ourselves back on track.”

Sinderberry does not like sole ownership, having seen it first hand as chief executive of English club Saracens when the club was bought by a South African investment group.

“We’ll start looking at it seriously again this year, but it won’t be about one person,” he said.

“I’m a fan of multi-ownership. There are models where lots of people own the club, where membership can expand into ownership. Ownership for rights is the debate we need to have.”

The ARU already owns the Rebels’ intellectual property and have offered to buy the rights to the other Australian clubs. The Brumbies and Reds are considering the option.

The buyouts are not comparable to the millions of dollars spent by the ARU bailing out the Rebels, Reds and Waratahs in previous years.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/30860293/hard-up-force-sell-licence/
 

T to the T

Juniors
Messages
481
TBF RU's expansion has to be applauded. They've grabbed the bull by the horns and taken the sport to places we could only dream of, and having 7's at the Olympics is the cherry on top. So as an RL fan it's incredibly frustrating seeing this, HOWEVER it's worth noting that RU's expansion benefits RL immensely too.

RU is laying the ground work, exposing the world to rugby. We all know that RL is the far better product. Like a remora fish, we need to take advantage of the ground RU is breaking and start marketing our superior product in places like the USA, Canada, Japan, Argentina and South Africa where there is a foothold (stranglehold in SA's case).

Our games are intrinsically linked. In places were no rugby is played, an RU presence is a good thing for RL in the long run.

That said, put a f*cking another team in Perth, SEQ, Wellington and Adelaide FFS NRL!
 

RoosTah

Juniors
Messages
2,257
TBF RU's expansion has to be applauded. They've grabbed the bull by the horns and taken the sport to places we could only dream of, and having 7's at the Olympics is the cherry on top. So as an RL fan it's incredibly frustrating seeing this, HOWEVER it's worth noting that RU's expansion benefits RL immensely too.

RU is laying the ground work, exposing the world to rugby. We all know that RL is the far better product. Like a remora fish, we need to take advantage of the ground RU is breaking and start marketing our superior product in places like the USA, Canada, Japan, Argentina and South Africa where there is a foothold (stranglehold in SA's case).

Our games are intrinsically linked. In places were no rugby is played, an RU presence is a good thing for RL in the long run.

That said, put a f*cking another team in Perth, SEQ, Wellington and Adelaide FFS NRL!

Agree with this (although I think Perth and NZ 2 are bigger priorities than SEQ and Adelaide). Ultimately most people aren't sports zealots like some guys here who loath union and others in union who loath league - in more foreign areas Perth, the people who might be receptive to one code of rugby, are likely to enjoy the other.

Ultimately I think this will benefit League though - the NRL is faster, simpler to understand and more focussed on scoring tries than Super Rugby is, and once Perth fans are exposed to a new NRL team I imagine it'll quickly overtake the Force.
 
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Messages
14,697
I'd rather an Adelaide team than CC TBH.

And I reckon if they do it right, Adelaide would succeed. You just need to get the people / fans down there to get a siege mentality happening against Qld/NSW and even Vic with the Storm or Perth with the Pirates and I reckon it'd take off.
 

Billythekid

First Grade
Messages
6,727
While this may be so, there are certain clubs that make the finals 90% of the time, and others that only make it 10% of the time. Some teams have massive advantages. It doesn't translate to winning comps all that much (although they win it more than the average) but it does translate to far more successful seasons and all the benefits that come with them.

So don't suggest the NRL competition is played on an even playing field when clearly it is not.

Even on a level playing field some teams would struggle. Look at someone like parra, they have as big a supporter base as any club and are based in one of leagues strongest regions. They've also had plenty of good juniors. Problem is they've been run by dumb f*cking merkins and have never reached their potential.

Tigers are in a similar boat. Tons of potential that hasn't been reached because of the incompetent people running it. Just because some teams struggle doesn't prove that the playing field isn't level (not that I'm saying it is). To me the main thing is that it feels like every team is able to get a shot at a premiership even if it's less common than others. Right now we have that and very few sporting comps around the world can say that.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
68,271
Interestingly afl pays very little to its state leagues as they are all self funding except the expansion regions. In comparison NRL last year spent over $25million funding touch footy and state comps, mostly nswrl and QRL.

Add in the $24million a year bonus payments they are now giving clubs , $13.1million in bail out payments to struggling clubs and it's no wonder they don't feel they can afford expansion.
 

papabear

Juniors
Messages
973
Don't worry that the Force are broke...

There is a Union team in Perth...

That's all that matters right?

A good 1/4 of nrl clubs get nrl bail outs and they are at times considered great succeses see st george...

Imo its good for rugby league to get the added exposure from another brisbane side and a perth side
 
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