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Coach Flanno

possm

possm

Coach
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16,026
hewi said:
Christian Nicolussi

By Christian Nicolussi​

January 20, 2024 — 12.00pm
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St George Illawarra coach Shane Flanagan has turned to his old Cronulla blueprint for how best to utilise Zac Lomax and Tyrell Sloan when it comes to the Dragons’ No.1 jersey.
Just as he enjoyed success rotating Ben Barba with Valentine Holmes – and even Michael Gordon – during games at Cronulla, Flanagan has been tinkering with a similar tactic during summer with Lomax and Sloan.
https://archive.md/KWdBE#

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The pair have chopped and changed between fullback, centre and even wing, regularly rotating between positions at training.
Sloan has resumed full training after overcoming an ankle injury at the Koori Knockout and is regarded as the early front-runner for the No.1 jumper, while Lomax, an established centre, has enjoyed being given plenty of time to secure the custodian’s role.

“Zac has been training really well and interchanging between fullback and centre, and doing a really good job,” Flanagan said. “He’s fit, strong and wins nearly everything with our testing.
“I might do a bit of Sloan and Lomax swapping around a bit. I did it with Ben Barba and Michael Gordon, and Barba and Val Holmes. They’re practising that a bit at the moment. I’m not saying they are going to do it, but it’s an option. We did it with Val to get him to learn about footy and play a bit of fullback. It frees them up a bit.
The Dragons could rotate Tyrell Sloan and Zac Lomax at fullback during games.

The Dragons could rotate Tyrell Sloan and Zac Lomax at fullback during games.CREDIT: NRL PHOTOS
“As long as you don’t start confusing yourself, it [has merit]. It’s not a big swap. It would be done on changeovers and penalties. It’s not like you’re swapping positions during the run of play. But it could work at some point.”
Skipper Ben Hunt has enjoyed watching Lomax, 24, and Sloan, 21, shuffle between positions, but his preference was to have a regular fullback locked in by the time the season kicks off.


“I like it at the moment how they’re interchanging and learning different parts of the game and where they need to be,” Hunt said. “They’ve both trained on the wing a bit as well. But the longer the pre-season goes, we need to lock it down, and that’s when you get your combinations together.”
Melbourne are another NRL club that springs to mind when it comes to having the luxury of shuffling Ryan Papenhuyzen, Nick Meaney and Sua Fa’alogo in and out of fullback during games.
Flanagan knows the Dragons’ roster lacks big-name players, but he is happy with what he has seen during summer. Plenty of armchair critics will have the Dragons favourites to finish in the bottom four.
“We’re fitter, stronger and faster. Our training has gone to another level, so I have every confidence we’ll have a good season,” Flanagan said.

“We don’t have a lot of elite rep players in our team, but we have some really good players who will do a really good job. They’ll play my style and defend – you’ll see things we haven’t seen before in a Dragons’ jersey with the way we defend. We’ll be OK. We’ll be good. Genuine Dragons fans will see that early days.”
Click to expand...
To me, any such rotation should involve 3 players:
Lomax
Sloan
A winger who can play center. Allen would have been the ideal player.
1. Lomax
2. Sloan
3. Allen

1. Sloan
2. Allen
3. Lomax

Lomax is not a winger and would be wasted on the wing. If the Dragons could land Manu maybe the the following would be the best option with no rotation:

1. Manu
2. Sloan with a mandate to roam in attack
3. Lomax
 
baggygreen man

baggygreen man

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4,423
Yet another New Corp article all about Flanagan, no shrinking violet our coach. STOP PRESS, Hunt has been relieved as chief play maker replaced by Flanno Jr. Best news I've heard in 6 long years. Flanno says Hunt will (chuckle chuckle) ''be let loose to exploit his lethal running game'', with his boy now the ''team problem solver''. This is a massive back down by Flanagan who has said since joining us that Hunt would retain the main ball playing role. Some may call it nepotism, but if Kyle Flanagan has impressed his old man and attack coach so much to relieve Hunt of the role, then the 25 year old must possess good game management skills.
 
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baggygreen man

baggygreen man

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4,423
Clear indication too, Flanno is planning on switching Sloan and Lomax mid game. Says he wants the kid to learn more footy IQ with this switcheroo ploy, which he evidently used successfully with the Sharks. So expect to see the kid playing, fullback, centre or wing at various times over the season. Take a gander at the pic of Sloan, if he hasn't put on at least 5 kilos I will eat something nasty.
 
baggygreen man

baggygreen man

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4,423
possm said:
To me, any such rotation should involve 3 players:
Click to expand...
Reckon Flanagan is planning just that but who does he want for his other wingman and the third switch player, is the $6K question. Also I am thinking he intends using Bird as his #1 utility like he did at the Sharks, evidently. God help us. Just keep him away from a play making role.
 
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possm

possm

Coach
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16,026
baggygreen man said:
Reckon Flanagan is planning just that but who does he want for his other wingman and the third switch player, is the $6K question. Also I am thinking he intends using Bird as his #1 utility like he did at the Sharks, evidently. God help us. Just keep him away from a play making role.
Click to expand...
The only problems with using Bird as the bench utility is that:
a. If his injuries restrict his ability to play in the hooker rotation.
b. If a more dynamic junior winger or center is knocking on the door of first grade.
c. If the Dragons do land Manu and select him at fullback. He has long wanted to play fullback and the Dragons wold be the only club that could accommodate him right now.
 
Victoire

Victoire

Juniors
Messages
1,134
Don't think this article was posted here but it's absolutely worth a read. Great statistical deep dive on Tyrell Sloan.

It dovetails with my own thoughts on a possible job-sharing situation with Sloan and Lomax, which is that it will lessen or deaded one of the true attacking threats in the team - Sloan's ability to break the line. Instead of putting the square peg in the round hole and shifting Lomax, we should try to build on both player's strengths. Hopefully we can offload a bit more than we did in the depressing Griffin era and give Sloan more opportunities, but perhaps give Lomax a bit more licence to roam around the field like Joey Manu does for Easts. Defensively yeah Lomax would be better at fullback, but we also need Zac's defensive ability in the centres, particularly if it means we have Sloan defending on the wing with Rava at centre. It would make our supposed stronger defensive edge much much weaker. Or if you go Bird centre with Lomax wing then you make a slowish backline even slower. It's a tough one to make sense of.

www.theroar.com.au

Zac v Tyrell: If the Dragons want to get the most out of their spine, they have to get the best out of Sloan

Shane Flanagan couldn’t have asked for a worse start to his time as head coach at St George Illawarra. He lost Junior Amone, who…
www.theroar.com.au

This is the passage I found most interesting:

Sloan’s statistical profile is one of the most interesting in the league in terms of fullbacks. His ability to put players through a gap was among the absolute worst in 2023, but his ability to find space for himself was elite, behind only Reece Walsh, Will Kennedy and AJ Brimson.

His run metres are poor, as you might expect, and his kick returning is the worst among regular fullbacks, as is his reading of the play – only Scott Drinkwater allowed a greater percentage of kicks faced to hit the deck – and his bomb defusal rate.

All the things that Hook saw in him as a liability are absolutely there: the kid can’t return kicks, can’t catch them and, beyond attack, might as well not be on the field.

But: what he can do in attack, in a team that really struggles in attack, is very good. All the stats point towards a player who could come on leaps and bounds if he was given better conditions by the other blokes on the field.

Interestingly, in 2022, Sloan was in the 90th percentile for line break assists, suggesting that he does have a pass in him somewhere.
 
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baggygreen man

baggygreen man

Bench
Messages
4,423
Victoire said:
His ability to put players through a gap was among the absolute worst in 2023,
Click to expand...
I see that as not his job but rather the two halves. He does have ball in hand skills, seen it in Ressies.
Victoire said:
but his ability to find space for himself was elite,
Click to expand...
That is his job and few do it better. Imagine what level he'd reach if he was behind a strong go forward pack and creative play makers.
 
W

Wolfgang90

Juniors
Messages
827
Victoire said:
Don't think this article was posted here but it's absolutely worth a read. Great statistical deep dive on Tyrell Sloan.

It dovetails with my own thoughts on a possible job-sharing situation with Sloan and Lomax, which is that it will lessen or deaded one of the true attacking threats in the team - Sloan's ability to break the line. Instead of putting the square peg in the round hole and shifting Lomax, we should try to build on both player's strengths. Hopefully we can offload a bit more than we did in the depressing Griffin era and give Sloan more opportunities, but perhaps give Lomax a bit more licence to roam around the field like Joey Manu does for Easts. Defensively yeah Lomax would be better at fullback, but we also need Zac's defensive ability in the centres, particularly if it means we have Sloan defending on the wing with Rava at centre. It would make our supposed stronger defensive edge much much weaker. Or if you go Bird centre with Lomax wing then you make a slowish backline even slower. It's a tough one to make sense of.

www.theroar.com.au

Zac v Tyrell: If the Dragons want to get the most out of their spine, they have to get the best out of Sloan

Shane Flanagan couldn’t have asked for a worse start to his time as head coach at St George Illawarra. He lost Junior Amone, who…
www.theroar.com.au

This is the passage I found most interesting:

Sloan’s statistical profile is one of the most interesting in the league in terms of fullbacks. His ability to put players through a gap was among the absolute worst in 2023, but his ability to find space for himself was elite, behind only Reece Walsh, Will Kennedy and AJ Brimson.

His run metres are poor, as you might expect, and his kick returning is the worst among regular fullbacks, as is his reading of the play – only Scott Drinkwater allowed a greater percentage of kicks faced to hit the deck – and his bomb defusal rate.

All the things that Hook saw in him as a liability are absolutely there: the kid can’t return kicks, can’t catch them and, beyond attack, might as well not be on the field.

But: what he can do in attack, in a team that really struggles in attack, is very good. All the stats point towards a player who could come on leaps and bounds if he was given better conditions by the other blokes on the field.

Interestingly, in 2022, Sloan was in the 90th percentile for line break assists, suggesting that he does have a pass in him somewhere.
Click to expand...

It's also sloans contract year so he needs to show Flanno & other clubs that he can be a solid 1st grade player. I can't see him lining up at centre because of his poor defence & lack of size but I could see him as a winger (in defence) & fullback in (attack). Imo he could have an AJ like impact on the wing but with more freedom to roam in attack.

I would personally play him on the wing in defence but fullback in attack. I think that way we have Lomax as our best 1v1 defender at fullback & our fittest player to cover the distances while providing excellent kick return meters. It would allow Sloan to be fresh to play fullback in attack where he can focus his fitness & speed on support play around the field.

BUT Sloan's footy profile is soo unique because of his deficiencies for fullback play that it's difficult to place him in the team. It's a tough situation for Sloan & the dragons but he needs to show some improvement in the weaker areas. If we had a good defensive centre or steady fullback then it makes the decision of putting Sloan on the wing easier but we unfortunately don't.

Imo the best bet for Sloan would be to show he can be an effective winger, as it buys him time to continue to build his body for the rigours of fullback & develop skills in that area. Unless he can have a Reece Walsh or Scott Drinkwater impact at fullback to cover his defensive deficiencies which would be amazing. That's more on the team improving their defence so Sloan isn't put under soo much pressure at fullback.
 
Victoire

Victoire

Juniors
Messages
1,134
Our recruiting class of 2024 reminds me of 2008

Hame Sele = Jarrod Saffy.
Not necessarily a star but an extremely competent, solid, tough prop who makes the 17 every week and improves the team.

Tom Eisenhuth = Jon Green.
Crusty journeyman who does the job when needed and doesn't let anyone down

Raymond Faitala-Mariner = Kirk Reynoldson.
Experienced backrower with eye-catching hair.

Kyle Flanagan = Ben Rogers... (or Jamie Soward?)
Could go either way. Probably more of a Rogers

Corey Allan = Michael Lett... (or Wendell Sailor?)
Well he did win an Origin series with Queensland after all. But I'd say he's likely to play even less games for us than Lett did


We just need a Stuart Webb type now. Perhaps thats why we wanted Zac Woolford
 
L

Lennyb

Juniors
Messages
399
Victoire said:
Our recruiting class of 2024 reminds me of 2008

Hame Sele = Jarrod Saffy.
Not necessarily a star but an extremely competent, solid, tough prop who makes the 17 every week and improves the team.

Tom Eisenhuth = Jon Green.
Crusty journeyman who does the job when needed and doesn't let anyone down

Raymond Faitala-Mariner = Kirk Reynoldson.
Experienced backrower with eye-catching hair.

Kyle Flanagan = Ben Rogers... (or Jamie Soward?)
Could go either way. Probably more of a Rogers

Corey Allan = Michael Lett... (or Wendell Sailor?)
Well he did win an Origin series with Queensland after all. But I'd say he's likely to play even less games for us than Lett did


We just need a Stuart Webb type now. Perhaps thats why we wanted Zac Woolford
Click to expand...
You are on the money.

Now I see it.
 
H

hewi

Bench
Messages
4,231

OPINION​

Shane Flanagan has written off 2024 for the Dragons already. This is a good thing​

Andrew Webster

Andrew Webster​

Chief Sports Writer
February 6, 2024 — 5.44am
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When St George Illawarra were getting serious last year about signing Shane Flanagan as coach, there was determined pushback from the St George side of the joint-venture.
It had less to do with Flanagan’s past at arch rivals Cronulla, including the 2011 supplements scandal, and more to do with his son, Kyle.



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Sea Eagles impress in scrimmage with Dragons

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Sea Eagles impress in scrimmage with Dragons
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Sea Eagles impress in scrimmage with Dragons​


The Sea Eagles took on the Dragons in an opposed training session that came as a warning to Saints supporters.
Some directors feared that if they signed the father then the son would soon follow.
When Shane signed with the Dragons in June for three years, it evidently didn’t come with a “No Kyle” clause because, by September, his son had also been signed for two.

In that moment, it was clear the Dragons board and management had handed the keys to the head coach to do whatever he felt necessary to flick the switch on this most frustrating of football teams.
That’s why it was reassuring to hear what Flanagan had to say following an opposed session against Manly last week about his ambitions for the 2024 season.
Kyle and Shane Flanagan.

Kyle and Shane Flanagan.CREDIT: GETTY
“Our focus is 2025,” he said. “We’ve made some changes in 2024 and we’re still looking for some players, but our real focus will be for 2025 and 2026. The goal is to compete right to the end and be in the semi-final race right to the end. We’re going to be a side that’s hard to beat and we’re going to try not to beat ourselves.”
Now that’s different: a coach admitting before the season starts not to expect too much. May as well book that trip to the Maldives in September, Dragons fans. Not much doing at home.


Flanagan’s candour, though, is to be admired. This is the first year of the club’s most important rebuild. It doesn’t have too many left to get right before fans start walking away.
Dragons bosses held on too long with Paul McGregor, missed the ball by a metre with their Anthony Griffin air-swing, and are now relying on Flanagan to save their football side.
People judge teams too soon on two elements: their ladder position and the quality of the player they can sign.
Flanagan was criticised during the off-season for failing to pluck a sizeable name from the player market. He missed out on Cowboys half Tom Dearden and Warriors prop Addin Fonua-Blake in the space of a day back in December.
He couldn’t entice St Helens star Jack Welsby out of the UK, and not even $1.2 million a season could get Roosters centre Joseph Manu even remotely interested.

The Dragons signed Warriors playmaker Ronald Volkman but club medicos didn’t check under the bonnet before agreeing to terms and he’s been cut loose because of an existing shoulder injury.
So the 2024 gains column looks like this: Hame Sele (Rabbitohs), Kyle Flanagan (Bulldogs), Tom Eisenhuth (Storm), Corey Allan (Roosters), Jesse Marschke (Bears NSW Cup) and Raymond Faitala-Mariner (Bulldogs). Allan suffered a torn ACL at pre-season training and will miss the season.
The Dragons have recruited Raymond Faitala-Mariner from Canterbury.

The Dragons have recruited Raymond Faitala-Mariner from Canterbury.CREDIT: DRAGONS MEDIA
The inability to sign any marquee players isn’t a reflection on Flanagan but the club and how far it’s fallen after years of dysfunction.
This is the problem with mediocrity: soon enough you’ll give off the same stench as the Tigers.

Superstars aren’t always the answer. Paying well over market value for a marquee player or two might generate favourable publicity in the pre-season, but it comes back to bite you when you’re in the grind of winter.
Remember how we were all talking about a Tigers’ finals appearance a year ago because they had signed hooker Api Koroisau and back-rower Isaiah Papali’i?
The last thing the Dragons need is a sugar hit. They need a slow, methodical rebuild, starting with a team that might not make the eight but will always compete, as Flanagan indicated.
So ladder position shouldn’t mean much this year, although I’ve got no doubt that Flanagan was lowering expectations around himself when he asked fans not judge his side on what happens in 2024.

He keeps saying all the right things publicly about Ben Hunt, but that doesn’t mean the captain and halfback still doesn’t want out of the final two years of his contract after requesting a release last year.
He also argues Hunt’s running game will complement Kyle Flanagan’s so-called game management.
Fathers coaching their sons is happening more and more in the NRL for some reason. However, it’s tricky when the player isn’t Nathan Cleary, but a fringe first-grader plagued by doubt.
Flanagan wants the best for his son, who debuted under him in 2018 when he was coaching the Sharks before rocky stints at the Roosters and, more recently, the Bulldogs.
But each time Flanagan made suggestions to the Roosters and Bulldogs about how they should play his son, it did more harm than good and the pressure on Kyle became unfair. Nobody wants to see a young player break down with emotion like he did during a media conference May 2021 when the Bulldogs dropped him.

According to Shane Flanagan, the long-term strategy with Kyle was to turn him into a hooker – but you could see a path opening up to the No.6 jumper as soon he signed.
The Dragons, for some reason, had released Jayden Sullivan from the final two years of his contract to allow him to sign with the Tigers. Another local junior cut adrift.
The club did so knowing five-eighth Talatau Amone was still facing serious assault, stalking and intimidation charges following a rooftop hammer attack on a tradie in October 2022.
If Amone was found guilty, he was looking at either jail time or, at the very least, an NRL deregistration. He dodged jail but a two-year corrections order served to him in December was enough for the NRL to tear up his contract.

Amone has appealed his conviction and wants to come back to prove his “haters” wrong, but the Flanagans have just as much to prove.
This is the father’s chance to turn his son into the player he thinks he can be. It’s also the father’s chance, in his first head coaching job since 2018, to show that rugby league hasn’t passed him by.
Every Dragons coach since Wayne Bennett has been coaching for his life, chopping and changing teams and the way they play.
Flanagan wants sustained success and, in doing so, every St George Illawarra stakeholder — owners, directors, management, and especially weary fans — needs to give him time.
Which, by the way, starts now
 
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