Confirmed USA Teams for 2014

[ozenzud]

I only have a very vague idea of the reasons for the split.

But in terms of actual clubs/teams in the US, how many would there be total?

Are we talking 10-20 in the whole US or are there smaller, teams/clubs that feed into the clubs listed above?

Sounds all pretty small.

 

[Fighter]

I disagree, I would bet that all of the active AMNRL teams can meet the same standards that the Kings, Slayers, Blues, 13s ect are currently meeting. Kings Mentioned in a previous post that they haven't even settled on a home field yet. (Maybe all of their current options meet criteria)

I guess I'm still not getting a really clear picture of the main differences between the ideas of a merger and a unification. I'm not really sure what would be shared and have no idea what the conditions were. There was a feeling that the leagues were really close to coming together as result of meetings between the two sides. Almost seems like it was an issue of verbage.

Were all AMNRL teams offered a admission into the USARL?

We offered all AMNRL teams the opportunity twice to join us, with no takers.

 

[deal.with.it]

I only have a very vague idea of the reasons for the split.

But in terms of actual clubs/teams in the US, how many would there be total?

Are we talking 10-20 in the whole US or are there smaller, teams/clubs that feed into the clubs listed above?

Sounds all pretty small.

Of course it's small. It's a minor sport.

You have 10 USARL and 7 AMNRL teams that compete in their respective "first division" comps.

You then have several others - California, Chicago, Iowa, Utah etc that just play the odd match when they can get enough players and an opposing team organised.

There is also school-based youth competitions in Rhode Island.

And an under 23s (4?) team comp in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.

So, approx 500 players in the states.

 

[Bronco Rob]

We offered all AMNRL teams the opportunity twice to join us, with no takers.

Is the door still open for them? It's a shame the AMNRL club's heirachy can't see where the brighter future of RL in the US lies but I reckon if one moves over most will follow.

It will be interesting to see the RLIF's views on this if they do have a view at all?

 

[Bronco Rob]

Of course it's small. It's a minor sport.

You have 10 USARL and 7 AMNRL teams that compete in their respective "first division" comps.

You then have several others - California, Chicago, Iowa, Utah etc that just play the odd match when they can get enough players and an opposing team organised.

There is also school-based youth competitions in Rhode Island.

And an under 23s (4?) team comp in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.

So, approx 500 players in the states.

Don't forget Hawaii?????????????

 

[deal.with.it]

Is the door still open for them? It's a shame the AMNRL club's heirachy can't see where the brighter future of RL in the US lies but I reckon if one moves over most will follow.

It will be interesting to see the RLIF's views on this if they do have a view at all?

By way of chance, luck, or simply David Niu's hard work, the AMNRL are the governing body and hold the rights to the national team.

So obviously they are not going to want to just join the USARL. They might not have all the bargaining power, but they do have some.

Remember, it was the USARL clubs that didn't want to merge with the AMNRL clubs, even though USARL and AMNRL negotiators had come to a decision with a 4 & 4 executive.

The USARL clubs didn't think the AMNRL deserve that much representation.

Anyway, my point is, that with the USARL being stubborn thinking they hold all the cards, they may well never get control of the national body and be forever a "rebel" organisation.

If RL in the USA wants to get serious and attract bigger sponsors and possibly government/council grants, it probs wouldn't be beneficial being the "other" body.

 

[deal.with.it]

Don't forget Hawaii?????????????

When you work out what's going on in Hawaii, let me know...

 

[Evil Homer]

By way of chance, luck, or simply David Niu's hard work, the AMNRL are the governing body and hold the rights to the national team.

So obviously they are not going to want to just join the USARL. They might not have all the bargaining power, but they do have some.

Remember, it was the USARL clubs that didn't want to merge with the AMNRL clubs, even though USARL and AMNRL negotiators had come to a decision with a 4 & 4 executive.

The USARL clubs didn't think the AMNRL deserve that much representation.

Anyway, my point is, that with the USARL being stubborn thinking they hold all the cards, they may well never get control of the national body and be forever a "rebel" organisation.

If RL in the USA wants to get serious and attract bigger sponsors and possibly government/council grants, it probs wouldn't be beneficial being the "other" body.

USARL do hold all the cards. What could the AMNRL possibly offer domestically? A shambolic national team that is controlled and dominated by Aussies? Surely nobody, not even the AMNRL clubs want to see that continue.

The only solution here is for the AMNRL clubs to join the USARL structure. Pretending that the two are equal entities and that there should be some sort of compromise in terms of how the league is run is just nonsense.

 

[spinnerhowland]

Guys, this is not a situation of politics at all. It is a consideration of ASSETS from each organization.
What do you each consider an ASSET for moving rugby league forward with growth and development? What are they? Is it things like...
- Number of confirmed games played without forfeits?
- Youth development
- Grassroots growth with minor league teams who can progress to full team status
- Development of officials and coaches
- Open and transparent, democratic governance that provides equity in decisions thru member participation
- Marketing, advertising and media assets. (Website, social media, etc from both the Organization itself, and the member teams)
- Official documents such as adopted rules and regulations for both game play, and organizational structure, such as operating agreements, constitution, etc
- Basic protections for its members such as liability insurance, enforcing medical insurance for players, etc
- A minimum standard of operations that allows for some consistency for both the "perception" of the product that is seen in the field, as well as team operational standards
- What is the best “balance” in a national team when it comes to domestic and foreign players who are given the honor of the highest achievement that game has to offer? Where is the balance in domestic opportunity, and desire to perform?
I think you each get the idea here. So think about all the things you consider assets for an organization to operate at an acceptable standard.
Now think about what each organization offers in way of the questions you come up with.
Now consider how you join two organizations utilizing the best asset of each?
- What name do you use?
- Is there a value that one brand has in its name, in its online ability to promote the product, etc
- What parts of the organization are you prepared to give up based on the VALUE of that ASSET? Are you prepared to "start form scratch" and reinvent the wheel for the organization?

All I can say is that the Axemen approached this as a business deal where the organizations looked to "come together". We voted based on a feeling that the AMNRL offered us the opportunity to have more "locations to do business" and more "members to sell the product", while the USARL offered the business structure and professional governance to operate the administration of the product.

So we supported the idea for all teams and players (locations and salesmen) joining under the organization that offered the better administration, was the best way to growth the "sale" of Rugby League in the USA.

We are all "selling" the same product, and the more shops we get under the stronger brand, the faster we sell more of the product.

Just our thoughts on how and why.

Here is something very important to remember, and something that is at the forefront of the thought process for the executive members of the USARL:
As Rugby League grows in the USA, at some stage the national governing body for the game here, is going to be in charge of the sport of Rugby League for the entire USA. It will essentially become the ARL for the USA. Anytime the phone rings, from a team, a region, a player, anyone, who has ideas, wants help, or shows interest in being involved IN ANY WAY in Rugby League, we need to answer that call, and have systems in place to assist as much as possible, if the game is to succeed. From someone wanting to start a TOP Tier team, to a few guys that are looking to put together development that will see 2 games of 9’s happen during the summer, to someone who simply wants to add “Flag Rugby” to a youth organization. We need to start getting ready for all of it. (Makes it very daunting when you think about the groundwork the organization must set up NOW, to be prepared for what could be happening 10 years from now. We MUST have transparent structure and democratic visions

 

[spinnerhowland]

By way of chance, luck, or simply David Niu's hard work, the AMNRL are the governing body and hold the rights to the national team.

So obviously they are not going to want to just join the USARL. They might not have all the bargaining power, but they do have some.

Remember, it was the USARL clubs that didn't want to merge with the AMNRL clubs, even though USARL and AMNRL negotiators had come to a decision with a 4 & 4 executive.

The USARL clubs didn't think the AMNRL deserve that much representation.

Anyway, my point is, that with the USARL being stubborn thinking they hold all the cards, they may well never get control of the national body and be forever a "rebel" organisation.

If RL in the USA wants to get serious and attract bigger sponsors and possibly government/council grants, it probs wouldn't be beneficial being the "other" body.

Just for complete disclosure: the 4 x 4 negotiators had not come to "a descision", they had agreed to an OPTION that sounded possible. Each panel went back to their organizations with that option for consideration. I cannot comment on what the AMNRL panel did, if they voted or not, or if they discussed or not. I do not know what their process involves for group desicions.
BUT I do know that the USARL BOD (that includes all teams and executives) were asked to consider the option of the "merger" where governace would be taken from our own BOD and handed to a 50/50 split panel made up from both organizations. This was a very big choice for the future based on investors, team owners, clubs, etc. We were deciding to give away equal BOD power, due to each team having a seat on the BOD, to a panel that our teams did not have reps on other than our Executive, and some of the AMNRL panel was not known to us at all. We considered that, and our own teams, and USARL ASSETS. In addition to this, during the voting consideration period, rumors of "internal challenges" within the AMNRL group started to surface, and then the announcment from the NY Raiders. So when we weighed it all up, that option was not something we thought was the best way forward. So another option was tabled, lets unify under the one banner. It was the AMNRL clubs that up until now have decided to not take up that offer. So, in all fairness, two OPTIONS have been tabled. It is not being stubborn, it is being protective of the assets and investments of each of our clubs, and the USARL as a whole, and carefully considering the outcome of each choice we are faced with.
It is VERY business like, because it is BUSINESS.

 

[hutch]

So who are the confirmed starters for the amnrl?

 

[deal.with.it]

All those from 2013

 

[deal.with.it]

Spinner, stubbornness probs not the best word. But has the USARL thought about how to secure the national team and RLIF membership if the AMNRL continues to exist?

Evil Homer, you're a f**king idiot who consistently doesn't read others' comments properly and then jumps on their high horse and shuts down people's opinions.

I never said they were equal. I have always said the amnrl is a shambolic organisation. But the amnrl does have the national team. I said they hold something the usarl wants. The usarl doesn't hold all the cards. The usarl have all of the cards except the Ace.

 

[deal.with.it]

And spinner, i would never have supported the 4 4 committee.

But there are plenty of people on here saying "why won't the amnrl agree to the merger!!!" and they need to be told that the amnrl wanted the merger (according to amnrl president curtis cunz) and the usarl clubs (rightfully in my opinion) that didnt want the merger.

 

[RLref]

Is there actually a governing body or just a governing league?

To me it seems that two leagues are fine, obviously there are some pros to having a single league but as pointed out business wise doesn't seem like the best option for some. I think what ought to be looked at is that hierarchy of a body that governs the sport and let the competitions act in competition policy. They play how they want and do business their way, but in terms of growth and development there would be that governing body.

Just my two cents
A Ref

 

[spinnerhowland]

And spinner, i would never have supported the 4 4 committee.

But there are plenty of people on here saying "why won't the amnrl agree to the merger!!!" and they need to be told that the amnrl wanted the merger (according to amnrl president curtis cunz) and the usarl clubs (rightfully in my opinion) that didnt want the merger.

I am not here to tell people what they can and cannot post mate. Nor can I advise them on how they see things. But I am comfortable in speaking for the Axemen, what was the vision presented to us as a voting member, why we voted the way we did, and what we feel is a good way to move forward for the BUSINESS of Rugby League development AT ALL LEVELS in the USA.

So yes, as stated, we voted to not agree to the merger based on the reasons I listed in regards to assets, and supported the vision to unify under the USARL Banner.

 

[100%green]

Ok so can I ask BOTH sides a question?

Where is the RLIF is all this?

Have they contacted either party?

Why are they not mediating talks between both parties?

I am really interested to hear if there is or has been ANY talk or help from them?

 

[Fighter]

Green, as simple as it can be put, the federations want us to sort out our issues and come together for the greater good of the game. In all honesty the federations didn't create the split or our differences they shouldn't be expected to fix them, and if so how would they do that? We all have to play in the sandbox and find a way to do it together over here.

 

[100%green]

Green, as simple as it can be put, the federations want us to sort out our issues and come together for the greater good of the game. In all honesty the federations didn't create the split or our differences they shouldn't be expected to fix them, and if so how would they do that? We all have to play in the sandbox and find a way to do it together over here.

And I totally get that and it is a fair point.

However I would have thought the RLIF would have wanted this sorted before the RLWC 2013.

I understand that for example with the RLIF it is tough as there is only one full time employee and he is based here in Australia but surely the governing body would be able to or want to have this sorted.

Do you also fall under the RLEF?

 

[Bronco Rob]

By way of chance, luck, or simply David Niu's hard work, the AMNRL are the governing body and hold the rights to the national team.

So obviously they are not going to want to just join the USARL. They might not have all the bargaining power, but they do have some.

Remember, it was the USARL clubs that didn't want to merge with the AMNRL clubs, even though USARL and AMNRL negotiators had come to a decision with a 4 & 4 executive.

The USARL clubs didn't think the AMNRL deserve that much representation.

Anyway, my point is, that with the USARL being stubborn thinking they hold all the cards, they may well never get control of the national body and be forever a "rebel" organisation.

If RL in the USA wants to get serious and attract bigger sponsors and possibly government/council grants, it probs wouldn't be beneficial being the "other" body.

I don't think its necessarily a case of the USARL thinking they hold all the cards, I think they just realise that the route they're taking is one of most beneficial for the game moving ahead in the US.

I give my opinion coming from a position of neutrality, I have no stakehold in any US club or body but why would the USARL merge with an association that has been somewhat a basketcase in the last few years and have shown a great lack of transparency or direction and still has the whole Grand Prix/Tatham ownership cloud hanging over them? There has still not been one reply about the current state of ownership of the AMNRL, surely there is soemone reading these threads that has an idea of what the situation is?