Conspiracy theory

[Penrose Warrior]

I don't think Bluey is a f-wit - but I don't get the hype either. Yep, a great victory half a decade ago, but how many victories did he coach us to over Oz? ESL success with the richest club and best roster in the comp - sure, an achievement, but just how great? I'm happy for him to be given a chance to apply, and if he is the best man for job, great. But I'm yet to be convinced that he is a genuine league brain capable of taking us further than Cleary. Hopefully whoever gets the job does, though.

Leeds were not the Harlem Globetrotters. They had to be coached, they had to be better than another very good side in St Helens and a few other decent ones. I'd imagine you'd speak to a lot of Leeds players and they'd be very highly praised of him. In fact I'd like to see the media do that - canvas the opinion of a Leeds player who is likely to be forthright and honest about his talents.

How many victories over Oz? One from memory, but a massive 24-0, up the arse, led by Lord Bennett, spanking. Playing great league, playing inspired league. And although we didn't win the Tri Nations in 06', didn't we win 1-2 games leading up to the final? That final could've gone either way, again inspired league v a red-hot Aussie team.

You can't understand the hype? I can't understand the pessimism. If people had to be proven before they got a gig, no one would get one in the first place. What else do you want Bluey to do to prove he's what it takes? Win a premiership? He's got to get a start to prove that to you. And why didn't someone say to Wayne Bennett 'you're not worth the hype' in the first six years before he won a comp?

 

[Micistm]

I don't think Bluey is a f-wit - but I don't get the hype either. Yep, a great victory half a decade ago, but how many victories did he coach us to over Oz? ESL success with the richest club and best roster in the comp - sure, an achievement, but just how great? I'm happy for him to be given a chance to apply, and if he is the best man for job, great. But I'm yet to be convinced that he is a genuine league brain capable of taking us further than Cleary. Hopefully whoever gets the job does, though.

Some fair points, but IMO a bit harsh to sum his coaching up as ' a great victory half a decade ago.' He had great success with teams until his Kiwis reign, and after, he 'Out Bennetted' Bennett which is no mean feat in itself, but in that specific year they beat the Aussies twice which is pretty rare in itself. The following year, despite the "grannygate' crap- although we lost the final that tri series final was pretty damn fine as well (despite losing, would be close to my fave game ever).
Sure he inherited a great team in Leeds when he started there, but he did what he had to do, and unless you are forcing a coach to start a team from scratch thats an unfair assessment too- All coaches start with the players they have. Is it fair to knock Lowies acheivements of the past at Wigan, Manly, or Qld simply because he had the players there?
I think he has a proven past, just no proven experience in the NRL. And only one way to test that.

 

[devoid]

Monie was 15 years ago now and he's certainly not the worst coach we've ever had. Remember we would have made the playoffs in the first year if it weren't for a technicality. In the mean time we've had what 6? rookies in between with no title. Time to try something different. To me iro looks a lot like kemp.

Yeah, good point re: season 1 under Monie - and being the first playing season for a new club to boot.

 

[devoid]

If people had to be proven before they got a gig, no one would get one in the first place.

Yeah, fair enough. But I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a shot, because he is very strong candidate - the support he has behind him is already a huge positive. I'm saying I'm not convinced he can do better than what Cleary has done, whereas the chorus from what seems to be a vast majority of Warriors fans seem to be singing a 2012 victory song already, because Bluey-ness is next to Godliness. It's just my opinion - anyway, I just hope we get a great coach who can take our talent to the next level.

 

[devoid]

Some fair points, but IMO a bit harsh to sum his coaching up as ' a great victory half a decade ago.' He had great success with teams until his Kiwis reign, and after, he 'Out Bennetted' Bennett which is no mean feat in itself, but in that specific year they beat the Aussies twice which is pretty rare in itself. The following year, despite the "grannygate' crap- although we lost the final that tri series final was pretty damn fine as well (despite losing, would be close to my fave game ever).
Sure he inherited a great team in Leeds when he started there, but he did what he had to do, and unless you are forcing a coach to start a team from scratch thats an unfair assessment too- All coaches start with the players they have. Is it fair to knock Lowies acheivements of the past at Wigan, Manly, or Qld simply because he had the players there?
I think he has a proven past, just no proven experience in the NRL. And only one way to test that.

Hhahahahaha - I didn't mean it to be harsh, but perhaps you're right. No, it's never fair to knock any coach for their success - even Alex Fergusson. Runs on the board should count, and Bluey certainly has scored some.

 

[mean]

I don't think Bluey is a f-wit - but I don't get the hype either. Yep, a great victory half a decade ago, but how many victories did he coach us to over Oz? ESL success with the richest club and best roster in the comp - sure, an achievement, but just how great? I'm happy for him to be given a chance to apply, and if he is the best man for job, great. But I'm yet to be convinced that he is a genuine league brain capable of taking us further than Cleary. Hopefully whoever gets the job does, though.

x 5

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Yeah, fair enough. But I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a shot, because he is very strong candidate - the support he has behind him is already a huge positive. I'm saying I'm not convinced he can do better than what Cleary has done, whereas the chorus from what seems to be a vast majority of Warriors fans seem to be singing a 2012 victory song already, because Bluey-ness is next to Godliness. It's just my opinion - anyway, I just hope we get a great coach who can take our talent to the next level.

I actually agree, I'm not sure he can do better than what Cleary has done either. Cleary's record is strong. And yeah, a lot of what I read on here and listen to on Radio Sport you could book the victory parade down Station Road already.

But I want Bluey, I want Bluey to be given time to mould a squad, make it his own and not be rushed into results. With the team we have at the moment, we are primed to make a run at a premiership in 2013/14/15 or so.

And I think McClennan will be great for the club in terms of its PR, dealing with the media etc which doesn't hurt. Hopefully he won't give me this 'we're not far away, can't fault the effort, we didn't have luck' crap I've got from Ivan, and thought we'd done away with but popped up again last weekend.

 

[Warmess]

I think a lot of peoples furious masturbation over McClennan is that he has been the popular choice for a couple of years now. The time has come for a new coach and every fan who has called for him to be there has now worked themselves up so much that McClennan is now a premiership factory.

If he does get the gig (which I certainly hope he does) I can only hope he has a decent first year, as us Kiwis are pretty notorious on turning on 'under performers'. People won't care about him needing time, they only care about results. Thankfully, it seems that Warriors management seem to get that notion so I think we can assume that whoever gets the job will have it for 2-3 years regardless of results.

 

[Micistm]

Hhahahahaha - I didn't mean it to be harsh, but perhaps you're right. No, it's never fair to knock any coach for their success - even Alex Fergusson. Runs on the board should count, and Bluey certainly has scored some.

Fair points too though Dev...there are some who are going to expect immediate and brilliant results from Bluey if he gets the gig. I like your approach of middle ground- He has potential and deserves a shot, but to quote Life of Brian he's not the messiah:lol:

Speaking of OOT, I think some of the accolades Cleary has been getting for his Warriors time via the media has been overhyped too. He certainly deserves a pass mark, but IMO only just. I'd rate him a 'C' at this stage. He certainly gave us stability when we needed it, but he's had some flaws as well and hasn't been the smooth success some in the Aussie media and Radio Sport have suggested. The famous mid season slumps come to mind (even in his most successful year- the year he almost wouldn't drop Rovelli at gunpoint), his Jones experiment which failed and he just kept it the whole year anyway. I've never understood how he motivates with a such a deadpan style but I guess players are the best to answer that.
He certainly has done some good though; our defence is far better (though maybe at expense of attack- The 'kick it to Manu' days are long gone and found out), and his loyalty to the likes of Manu when others were calling for his head were admirable (although that could be a weakness too, when you consider other players who needed to be dropped and weren't).

 

[devoid]

I can't remember such a swell of support for a guy to be coach. Am I wrong to suggest that if Bluey doesn't get it, the fallout from fans would be massive? I mean, Richie Barnett aside.

 

[Micistm]

I can't remember such a swell of support for a guy to be coach. Am I wrong to suggest that if Bluey doesn't get it, the fallout from fans would be massive? I mean, Richie Barnett aside.

Don't think you're wrong there, I don't remember such a public backing for a single person, perhaps Deans for AB coach after the last Union WC or the tug of war foe Bennett...but this would be along those lines for sure. I pity the coach that gets it ahead of Bluey, he'll need to get fast results or suffer a witch hunt. Remember Kemble in the Kiwis? Although I wasn't happy he got the nod I felt incredibly sorry for him too.

 

[mean]

On Radio Live yesterday, Kevin Campion basically said that it should be Scurrah that should be going and not Cleary because Scurrah knows f*** all about league and that management should at least have league pedigree. He further added that Cleary was a good coach who had instilled a good culture within the club. He also suggested that Cleary's departure was more to do with ego and it was apparent that this was directed towards Scurrah again.

My issue with Bluey being the next coach are echoed with previous comments. If Bluey is such a great coach, why haven't other NRL clubs approached him already? He hasn't had a coaching position for about a year or so. The Warriors should be choosing the best coach from ALL the coaches and not the spare prick at the wedding.

Whilst Bluey is a good coach, my view is that under Bluey the Warriors won't win a final, unless he is able to recruit players of his choice without any influence of Scurrah and Bell. Because that's what he's been able to do with Hibiscus Coast, Mt Albert and Leeds and the Kiwis, by getting these teams of good players to win finals.

Why did Bluey depart Leeds?
Were the wheels falling off?
Was he burnt out?
Too much pressure from this fulltime position?
Why didn't he hang in there until he got a NRL position?

Bluey has the 'feel good', 'the people's man', 'working man' connection with a lot of people in NZ and if people's choice is based upon these premises, those decisions are more emotive than logical.

The Warriors should be casting their net far and wide and not like picking playground teams whereby Iro, Ackland and Bluey are the last kids that get chosen for each team.

On a pecking order from the best to the not so great with the current coaching stocks, Bluey is likely to be ahead of Ackland and Iro in that order, but how far down the list would they be? Would Bluey be ahead of Kearney? What about Mat Elliot?

Scurrah has already mentioned Bluey's name in some press conferences, so is this the inside running or as Kevin Campion said 'someone who doesn't know f all about running a NRL club'?

 

[devoid]

Fair points too though Dev...there are some who are going to expect immediate and brilliant results from Bluey if he gets the gig. I like your approach of middle ground- He has potential and deserves a shot, but to quote Life of Brian he's not the messiah:lol:

Speaking of OOT, I think some of the accolades Cleary has been getting for his Warriors time via the media has been overhyped too. He certainly deserves a pass mark, but IMO only just. I'd rate him a 'C' at this stage. He certainly gave us stability when we needed it, but he's had some flaws as well and hasn't been the smooth success some in the Aussie media and Radio Sport have suggested. The famous mid season slumps come to mind (even in his most successful year- the year he almost wouldn't drop Rovelli at gunpoint), his Jones experiment which failed and he just kept it the whole year anyway. I've never understood how he motivates with a such a deadpan style but I guess players are the best to answer that.
He certainly has done some good though; our defence is far better (though maybe at expense of attack- The 'kick it to Manu' days are long gone and found out), and his loyalty to the likes of Manu when others were calling for his head were admirable (although that could be a weakness too, when you consider other players who needed to be dropped and weren't).

Yeah, it's funny how the media has magnified their support of him, now that he is leaving; after all, if Gus Gould wants him, he must be good :sarcasm: Their fickle, knee-jerk opinions usually reflect that of a fan, not a journalist IMO - not entirely a bad thing. If they didn't care about league it would get less coverage - I just hope the coverage improves in quality.

As far as rating Ivan... For me, I was a massive Cleary supporter. I would give him a solid B - considering our competitiveness, regular featuring in the 8, what he had to work with in key positions, and the young guys who are now established/almost established, I think he has done good.

 

[Micistm]

I'm a vindictive person by nature...and I hope the Panthers gig turns to custard and roots Gould and Cleary both!

 

[devoid]

On Radio Live yesterday, Kevin Campion basically said that it should be Scurrah that should be going and not Cleary because Scurrah knows f*** all about league and that management should at least have league pedigree. He further added that Cleary was a good coach who had instilled a good culture within the club. He also suggested that Cleary's departure was more to do with ego and it was apparent that this was directed towards Scurrah again.

Interesting - I will have a look at their site and see if they have it on demand - would love to hear Campo's thoughts.

If Bluey is such a great coach, why haven't other NRL clubs approached him already?

A question well worth asking, IMO.

The Warriors should be casting their net far and wide...

Absolutely agree.

 

[Micistm]

On Radio Live yesterday, Kevin Campion basically said that it should be Scurrah that should be going and not Cleary because Scurrah knows f*** all about league and that management should at least have league pedigree. He further added that Cleary was a good coach who had instilled a good culture within the club. He also suggested that Cleary's departure was more to do with ego and it was apparent that this was directed towards Scurrah again.

My issue with Bluey being the next coach are echoed with previous comments. If Bluey is such a great coach, why haven't other NRL clubs approached him already? He hasn't had a coaching position for about a year or so. The Warriors should be choosing the best coach from ALL the coaches and not the spare prick at the wedding.

Whilst Bluey is a good coach, my view is that under Bluey the Warriors won't win a final, unless he is able to recruit players of his choice without any influence of Scurrah and Bell. Because that's what he's been able to do with Hibiscus Coast, Mt Albert and Leeds and the Kiwis, by getting these teams of good players to win finals.

Why did Bluey depart Leeds?
Were the wheels falling off?
Was he burnt out?
Too much pressure from this fulltime position?
Why didn't he hang in there until he got a NRL position?

Bluey has the 'feel good', 'the people's man', 'working man' connection with a lot of people in NZ and if people's choice is based upon these premises, those decisions are more emotive than logical.

The Warriors should be casting their net far and wide and not like picking playground teams whereby Iro, Ackland and Bluey are the last kids that get chosen for each team.

On a pecking order from the best to the not so great with the current coaching stocks, Bluey is likely to be ahead of Ackland and Iro in that order, but how far down the list would they be? Would Bluey be ahead of Kearney? What about Mat Elliot?

Scurrah has already mentioned Bluey's name in some press conferences, so is this the inside running or as Kevin Campion said 'someone who doesn't know f all about running a NRL club'?

Some very fair points there. As for Bluey, there's only one way for sure to know if he can cut it in NRL. Everyone needs to start somewhere. We all like Kearney as Kiwi coach (as far as I can tell), he was good in his assistant role at the Storm...but how are the Eels going?:?

 

[devoid]

I'm a vindictive person by nature...and I hope the Panthers gig turns to custard and roots Gould and Cleary both!

:lol: me too.

 

[JoeD]

Originally Posted by mean
If Bluey is such a great coach, why haven't other NRL clubs approached him already?

Maybe they have, who would know. Plus Aussies are biased. For evidence of this ask yourself how many kiwi referees have there ever been in the NRL (and it's not like the ref talent pool is overflowing)

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

What stupid questions about Bluey, just give him the gig and watch all these fence riders bow down to his success, some fans crack me up sometimes LOL

 

[Warmess]

We all like Kearney as Kiwi coach (as far as I can tell), he was good in his assistant role at the Storm...but how are the Eels going?:?

A fair call, but next season will be a true indication of Kearney as Parras coach. He will have all of the recruits he wants then, and even now they're on the improve...kinda.

If we get Bluey, I dare say next season might well reflect this season for Parra, although we've got a far better roster than them comparatively.