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News Coronavirus and NRL

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,454
That is your definition/suggestion. If you cant find the bit where it says the NRL must consult prior then what does that tell you about wether the NRL is legally obligated to do so ?




How do you know the NRL has NOT provided all relevant info ? And where does the agreement state the NRL must do all/any of this BEFORE it makes a decision ?

Doesnt look to me like the agreement defines any of that at all & if a contract does not state it then the NRL is not obliged to adhere to something that is not there.

The fact there are two specific different sections for 'definite decision' and 'propose to introduce change to a Match Official's regular roster, is enough to demonstrate two clear paths. When it comes to affecting the roster it is proposing to introduce a change - NOT 'has made definite decision to change'. These are two very specific paths.

No one knows whether the NRL has not provided the relevant issue - thus why it is with arbitration. But it there is plenty of evidence to suggest that a decision was made that changed match officials regular roster without consultation in line with the agreement, and it would be a far reach to suggest that timely and genuine consideration of concerns were given.

If this was a matter that was clear cut, do you honestly think the referees would be continuing down this path?
 

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,454
I think the whole thing is extremely poorly written. Surprisingly, that is not as rare as you might think and generally only gets outed in a crisis when people examine the wording closely.

As for both sides' legal advisers at the time, if they were dogs, you wouldn't feed them.

Most legal documents have a certain level of ambiguity. I mean even legislation is vague and only becomes more definitive with case law determining how it is to be applied.
 

Cactus

Juniors
Messages
731
But it there is plenty of evidence to suggest that a decision was made that changed match officials regular roster without consultation in line with the agreement

I dont believe there is any such evidence. The point I am labouring is that the terms of that agreement do not specify that the NRL needs to consult prior to. Words matter. Especially if its in dispute as someone has to make a determination one way or other.

I am quite sure play will go ahead next week.
 

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,454
I dont believe there is any such evidence. The point I am labouring is that the terms of that agreement do not specify that the NRL needs to consult prior to. Words matter. Especially if its in dispute as someone has to make a determination one way or other.

I am quite sure play will go ahead next week.

Play will be going ahead. The Referees Union have been clear about that. The referees aren't trying to stop the game.

Words do matter, but you seem to want to ignore that 'propose a change' means the decision has not been made. It is why it is kept separate to the 28a(i) which determine definitive decision.

You may not 'believe' there is such evidence, but it's a matter of fact that the decision to reduce to one referee and only keep fulltime officials (and adding workload that affects their regular roster) was announced as definitive without any discussion with the referees.
 

Vee

First Grade
Messages
5,598
Most legal documents have a certain level of ambiguity. I mean even legislation is vague and only becomes more definitive with case law determining how it is to be applied.
Acknowledged. This bit was written poorly.
 

Cactus

Juniors
Messages
731
Words do matter, but you seem to want to ignore that 'propose a change' means the decision has not been made. It is why it is kept separate to the 28a(i) which determine definitive decision.

Its not a matter of me ignoring at all. It moreso that when I read that agreement I read the specifics of it and not what it might "suggest" or "insinuate" or "imply".

While the agreement does mention "propose" it doesn't then go on to say that because its a proposition the NRL must consult beforehand so that xyz can happen.

If I was to envisage a legal judgement it would find that if its not written in the agreement then there can be no legal obligation on that party.

I admit I am pretty dry when it comes to these things. In my experience that's the correct way to go.
 

Chimp

Bench
Messages
2,855
Dispute now resolved - NRL don’t appear to have conceded any ground, so I guess that shows who was in the right.

There is an agreement to review The impact of the changes at the end of the year, which I’m sure would happen as standard anyway.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,549
Dispute now resolved - NRL don’t appear to have conceded any ground, so I guess that shows who was in the right.

There is an agreement to review The impact of the changes at the end of the year, which I’m sure would happen as standard anyway.

well they conceded to ensure all the refs are employed ft for next few years presumably on same pay and that it would be reviewed at end of season, so not quite true.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/refere...dly-over/b9bbce14-e36c-451e-a26e-efaffd283dff
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
Enjoy, true fans of rugby league... look away those who fear the great man's LEADERSHIP.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/q-...g-marks-and-rugba-league-20200522-p54vje.html

Q&A: V'landys on Murdoch, Politis, Greenberg, Marks and 'rugba league'


Andrew Webster
May 23, 2020 — 12.01am

Peter V’landys is on a week's annual leave as Racing NSW chief executive.

Instead of chillaxing in his ugg boots, the ARL Commission chairman has been at League Central every day, wearing a suit and tie, negotiating broadcast deals with Nine Entertainment Co and Foxtel, taking on the referees’ association and poring through the NRL’s finances before Thursday night’s competition restart.

He gave the Herald an hour, though, to talk about the big issues, including why he calls the game “rugba league”.

You’ve been very un-rugby league throughout this crisis: quick, decisive, not listening to committees.

When I took the job on, I said I’d be a traditional chairman — unless there’s an emergency. I said at my first press conference, “I’ll see you in 12 months”. For my first four months, I was very quiet. Then the coronavirus struck.

You’ve said you should never have shut the game down. Are you serious when you say that?

Public relations-wise, it would’ve been difficult. People would’ve asked, “Why is rugby league still going and we’re not?” It would’ve been a nightmare, along with the closure of the borders. But racing proved you can do it properly if you follow the correct biosecurity measures. People say players are spitting all over each other. But if they’re all negative, what does it matter?

How do you know they’re all negative if you haven’t conducted blanket tests?

I've done all this through analysis, not gut feeling. The legal adviser at Racing NSW stuck the idea in my head. He asked, “What are you doing to get the game back? What analysis are you doing?” I said, “What analysis do you think I should be doing?” He said I should be looking at the infection rate. I dug deep into the figures. Sixty per cent [of infections] came from overseas and 15 to 20 per cent from the Ruby Princess. Once you’ve closed the borders, 60 per cent of the risk has gone. When we stopped the competition, the infection rate was 25 per cent. Every day since, it’s gone down.

You’ve rattled off infection rates numerous times. Common sense would suggest it's become negligible because we’ve been in lockdown.

I’m different to you. It’s dropped because they shut the borders. As soon as we shut the borders, I knew it would be safe.

Your first pandemic expert didn’t think it would be …

I listened to her because of the Ruby Princess. I think she was a bit extreme.


What if I put to her that you dumped her because you didn’t like her advice?

Well, no. She’s given us advice that hasn’t proven correct. I’m not blaming the lady for that. But I’m not going back to a person who’s already given me incorrect advice. That’s why all these people have remained anonymous.

You’ve denied this before but I’m not buying it: you’re happy to be restarting ahead of the AFL.

Subconsciously, you’re probably right. At times I’ve looked at them and had a giggle. The first thing I said to Wayne Pearce, who heads Project Apollo, is that we won’t be using “bubbles”. We’ll just need self-isolation — and I was right. Three weeks later, the AFL was still looking at bubbles. But no: I was more worried about us and making sure my predictions were the right ones. I said, nine weeks ago, that we could train in Victoria and Queensland — at that stage we couldn’t. I said the Warriors could come over — at that stage we couldn’t …

You’ve been fascinating to watch from close range. The Prime Minister smacked you down twice in four days about the Warriors getting a travel exemption — and then it happened.

That’s my style. The same thing happened with the race fields legislation. [In 2008, V’landys successfully argued in the High Court that corporate bookmakers needed to pay racing for use of its product]. For four years that dominated my life. That’s now generating billions of dollars for racing. That was a lot harder than this. The race fields issue made me tougher because I realised I could put up with personal abuse. I discovered the “delete” button. But I get good publicity too.

The COVID-19 crisis has exposed the game’s financial frailties. You’ve been critical, so has Peter Beattie. He’s a former chairman and you've been on the commission for two years, signing off on budgets and executive bonuses. Surely you need to wear some of the blame.


If anyone wanted to look at the minutes, every meeting I raised concerns. When the budgets came through, I rejected them. You can only challenge so much. To Peter Beattie’s credit, when he came on board he realised the greatest problem this organisation has is that it has no assets. And the cash that was there was bullshit because we owed $80 million to the broadcasters. Of the $104 million we had, we only had $30 million or so. To the broadcasters’ credit, they haven’t called on that money. If they did, we were stuffed.


The NRL has been trying to save clubs from themselves for years. Why will you be different?

Because there’s been a relationship between the NRL and the clubs for the first time. We’re in the trenches together. The biggest mistake this organisation has made is that it's treated the clubs as second-rate citizens. They’re our shareholders. They’re the brand. The thing is there’s a lot of unity at the moment, between the NRL, clubs and players union. [RLPA chief executive] Clint Newton is a smart operator.

Some players think he’s too close to you …

I think they’re wrong. Relationships are the greatest asset I have; with politicians, media moguls … I’ve built that over a long period of time. Clint has realised you get more bees with honey than vinegar. He’s got more for the players by having a relationship with me than he would’ve got if he was confrontational. I’m the sort of person who would be twice as confrontational back. The referees have become confrontational. They don’t have a seat at the table. The referees ask, “Why aren’t we treated like the players?” Because we have a relationship.

What about your relationship with Channel Nine [publisher of this masthead]?

I genuinely believe that Channel Nine didn’t want to be there but I’m confident in the next month there will a long-term deal with Nine.

Do you really believe they were going to walk away? They were negotiating a better deal, surely.

I do. [Nine chief executive] Hugh Marks is a very good businessman. If I had a public company, I’d want him to be a CEO. If you look at rugby league purely on a business case, you can understand his reasoning. He was making losses on it.

Was Channel Seven interested?

No. They are heavily invested in the AFL and have a chairman in Kerry Stokes who is AFL obsessed. It was never an option in my eyes.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
continued...

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/q-...g-marks-and-rugba-league-20200522-p54vje.html


People question the wisdom of brokering a long-term broadcast deal when the NRL is at its weakest. Thoughts?

Forget where we’re at right now. I went to the US and did my research and analysis about where the sports broadcast market is. I’m getting no less than what I was prepared to take before the coronavirus crisis came in. It’s a good deal for us.


Getting the same money in seven years’ time that you’re getting now is a good deal?

I think it will be better because we’ve carved a few things out. I can’t be more specific because it’s commercially sensitive. I’ve really appreciated the advice of [Fox Corp executive chairman] Lachlan Murdoch.

How so?

He’s doing a deal with the NFL in America. I’m working on the same strategy the NFL has. In my view, there’s a lifespan for traditional media, which gives you the maximum return for broadcast rights. The rest will give you revenue share and you have to provide production. That won’t produce the rivers of gold that we get now. The longer we have the traditional model, the more chance we have to build up our asset base. It gives us more certainty because we know what our revenues and costs are going to be over a long period of time. There’s a price for certainty.

Doesn’t a long-term deal also secure the future of Fox Sports, which is owned by the Murdochs?

Lachlan's taking a bigger risk than I am.

Financial crisis is one thing. But were the new rules, and reverting to one referee, really emergencies?


The words of the broadcasters kept ringing in my ears. If you don’t listen to the people who provide the revenue, you’re an idiot. They believe the game has become staid and boring. I just think the game has to become more entertaining. I also speak to a lot of fans. The magnitude of the success in my life is that I treat all people the same. The fans are the bread and butter. I’m representing them. I represent the bricklayers from Wollongong. I’m not a private school kid. I’ve had to fight for everything. My connections are my people. The bricklayers …

My father is a bricklayer. He hates wrestling. But he's also worried about the restart of the season being trashed by refereeing dramas. What do you say to him?

I’ll wear the criticism if that happens. I’ve taken punches on the chin for others many times. I’ll cop the blame. In my own little mind, I feel like I’ve got enough runs on the board.


Why not bring in the interchange reduction, then? That’s the best move out of the lot.

Don’t tempt me.

It was telling you ignored the advice of Roosters chairman Nick Politis, who didn’t want one referee.

Nick has never sought from me something for himself or his club. I genuinely believe, in my head, that I have no agendas, no baggage. Everyone says, “Oh, he’s Nick Politis’ man”. The Roosters were the fourth club to approach me to come onto the commission.


You consider him to be a future chairman, though?

I do. Nick has done a lot for the game but he’s a tall poppy and people want to bring him down. Why wouldn’t you want one of Australia’s best businessmen on your board? I don’t want to be here forever — but I’m here to make decisions and to live by them.

The criticism of Todd Greenberg was that he wasn’t prepared to make hard decisions …

I don’t want to talk about Todd. He’s moved on and we've moved forward.

You've become noticeably uncomfortable at the very mention of his name.

Only because I want him to move forward. I don’t want him blamed for things. If he’s down and out, why kick him? Let him get a job somewhere else.

The word inside the NRL is that you’re $1.04 to become executive chairman later this year.

No, I don’t want the job.


You’re waiting to be asked …

I won’t do it. I’ve said “no” so many times.

You’ve never wanted to be chief executive? Never coveted it? Never crossed your mind?

It crossed my mind but that’s as far as it went.

You call the game “rugba league”. It’s awesome ... but why?

[Laughs] I didn’t even know I was saying it. I don’t know where it comes from. It's just how I say it. But I’m not going to change. That’s just me. I am who I am.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,549
“The words of the broadcasters kept ringing in my ears. If you don’t listen to the people who provide the revenue, you’re an idiot”

First it was to save money
Then it was because fans wanted it
Now it’s because tv wants It

peter needs to get his story straight lol
 

Cactus

Juniors
Messages
731
Not easy to get an accurate read on this bloke and I think I know why.

He comes across as a weird mix of:
  • Corporate but uncouth
  • Forthright yet bookmaker-esque dodgy
  • Assertively bold and yet unconvincing at times
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
19,178
NRL aiming to have crowds back in July.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/p...y/news-story/0573e847faea3436f6487c45bc2a6088

With movie theatres opening again 21/06. Not too far a stretch for the NRL to be looking at bringing crowds back. I'm sure there would still be restrictions like they have now with restaurants and pubs etc, certain number of patrons per meter etc.

But it would be great to get out to a game again.

The thing is this isn't up to the NRL so given they have gone public, one can only assume they have got information from the government that sport crowds in July is the goal.
 

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