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Crowds - media needs to talk about team reduction to get used the idea

slaytera

Juniors
Messages
35
mark123 said:
Posted somewhere else about crowds.

WHY wont people listen to me?

When I write to newspapers when they dis respect rugby league (times short, talking like a homie, haha) but i do, and almost immediately 9 TIMES out of 10 we get a counter story of some kind.... because THEY KNOW i am not talking crud and what i say is worth its weight in gold.

I call people on their crap.

I dont like a less than optimal route and it pains me to see things easily addressed (even if complex) go unaltered when they could be so much better. I am not happy to accept medioricory.

Look people. For every action you make, you must be patient and allow the chain of events set into motion by that action take place....and at the right moment make your next action felt.

So it begins like this, if RL is to ever sky-rocket and reach its full potential.....sydney must have less teams. Manly are a good team to watch and they are doing well this year....but only about 6,000 people gave a big enough hoot to care by attending? 1st off who would want to go to shark park anyway?

Second the sharks arent much chop.

Third, if you cut the sharks or they moved, few people would care. Then the majority of those 6,000 people would attend another league game, boosting that games crowd figure. Some may take longer than others to attend again.....but they will if they were ever worthwhile fans. That result (a smaller percentage of 6,000 fans retained to the game and attending elsewhere) is worth more money than the 6,000 attendees at shark park to the game when you consider things like perceived value (which crowds give on many tangible levels) and sponsorships, etc. It doesnt have to mean one less game for tv IF another team is put in another city. It makes economic sense. It makes even COMMON SENSE.

So why arent we doing something more with the teams in sydney? Does sydney REALLY NEED SO MANY TEAMS IN A NATIONAL COMPETITION? Ok....in a competition that WANTS TO BE NATIONAL?

Hardly anyone seems to give a rats about most teams. Dont say its not so! Everywhere over the world people attend sporting events when they are interested - dont think this is not the case for Australia! Never get caught thinking there is no sense in this. If 50,000 more people attended rugby league each week, and therefore 50,000 less watched on tv, it wouldnt make a difference to the tv contracts negatively. Put it that way.

The broncos get 35,000 average (crowds between 27,000 and 50,000) with 1-2 million people in "attending" distance. It puts the spot light on RL in the town when you get that many people constantly to a game....it gets on average 35,000 people each week actively talking about ONE particular game....and everything else - all focussed on ONE game.....26 players....it condenses attention and multiplies the profits to be had. If people are ALL performing actions that are directly related to rugby league ALL at once like getting to a game, where do you think the extra interest from those actions go in the real world? Thing of generated interest as a comodity and work it off the principal the more you have the greater its value and effect is. What do you think happens most weekends in brisbane? 35,000 people on average are all organising a rugby league day, and everyone who comes into contact with those people has the chance to be influenced by that - and that means more exposure for the 13 players on the feild....more people talk about lockyer....more people whitness a sea of broncos jerseys across the city....the sport is advertised in a meaningful and benificial way that generates interest and money.

I didnt expect you to think about those things above- but guess what. They are happening all the time whether you think about them or not and they MAKE a big difference. It gets busses involved, trains involved, people involved, kids involved, schools involved, town and city planning needs to change...and all of a sudden RL's position is solidified even more.

Compare those 35,000 having influence on the minds of those around them out in the world, to the paltry 6,000 who went to the sharks game (and probably wont talk about it, let alone anyone really knowing about it). Its these kinds of intangibles that league should not be missing out on.....its truly sad.

You see, there are just TOO many teams in sydney for this kind of focus to take place, and less interest is generated....there are too many players, the support is too thin, the sponsors too few, the interest being generated IS NOT THERE!! Sydney needs less teams. How do you do it? Well a plan should be begun immediately to rationalise sydney within 15 years. It doesnt mean every team has to go, just make the number smaller every so often until you reach a point where its enough. Its not about overkill or a witch hunt, its about making league great.

Dont kid yourself, the situation in sydney is dragging RL's butt in this country.....a transitional period must come into existance during which the number of teams is reduced.

I tell you now so you all get used to the idea. In fact. If the game had any sense, it would mention something to the media about this and make people aware of the intent "over a long period of time" to reduce teams.... therefore getting everyone used to it. When it happens it wont be unexpected.

Thats how it should begin. The second stage running parrallel to what was just mentioned (stage one) is the development of better stadia that are easier to get to from more spots across sydney.

If i had a lot of money riding on the success of league, I would be implementing strategies to achieve the above goals....and I would begin implementing them immediately! First you must get people used to the idea.

Oh and by the way, let me talk about the losers attitude.

The losers attitude goes something like this: "Oh, poor sharks, thats terrible."

The winner says "They arent good enough." And then he dates hot chicks and gets rich (if thats his want) from good focussed effort.


Over to you.

QFT.
 

Noa

First Grade
Messages
9,029
Teams just need to market themselves better. As far as Im concerned too many teams just sit around relying on hand-outs from their Leagues club or the NRL grant.

Encourage people to become members, show them how its more then just having a seat to a game. Have direct debit payment options, allow fans to pay-off over the course of 6 months the cost of season tickets for next years games.
 

Noa

First Grade
Messages
9,029
Also its only been 10 years since the pain of Super-league, Id give it another 10 at least before Id seriously consider relocating a team from Sydney and Id consider myself as very pro-exspanion.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,676
Why not bring in franchising like SL is about to do? Fixed term franchises with clubs set min standards to meet. These would include crowd support, stadium quality etc. This way when re franchise time comes around every 5 years say, then new areas can bid against existing franchises opening up a competitive market. Reckon a CC frqanchise bid at this point in time would more than match some of the Sydney teams.
 

Lockyer4President!

First Grade
Messages
7,975
Perth Red said:
Why not bring in franchising like SL is about to do? Fixed term franchises with clubs set min standards to meet. These would include crowd support, stadium quality etc. This way when re franchise time comes around every 5 years say, then new areas can bid against existing franchises opening up a competitive market. Reckon a CC frqanchise bid at this point in time would more than match some of the Sydney teams.
It's a good idea but there's no way the sydney clubs would vote it in.
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
14,638
LeagueXIII said:
Look at the North Sydney Bears, who were averaging 15,000. Out of the comp RU and AFL now number one on the North Shore. This is good for RL..how???

When there were 12 teams there were too many, than we had 11 now wehave nine and it's still too many. The only reason RL competes with AFL money wise is because of Sydney teams take them away and watch RL's stock's go down. Sydney can handle 9-10 teams it's not about moving teams it's about proactive managemnt, GROW the bloody game don't ALWAYS take the easy option. I for one am sick of all this destabilising.

Good post which I see everyone has ignored so far...

As you have said and let me echo, how is it good for Rugby league that this area of Sydney is now forever lost to the game to our competitors??

The best thing that RL has going for it is Sydney, and Sydney is completely under attack from the other codes...

Each time Sydney loses a club, we will be creating a vacuum for other codes to come into that area..

Its ridiculous to suggest that cutting teams is going to increase crowds?? Can someone explain that logic to me??

How is cutting say Cronulla from the competition going to lead to a bigger crowd for Manly v Parra??
 

Ron Jeremy

Coach
Messages
25,665
BuffaloRules said:
Good post which I see everyone has ignored so far...

As you have said and let me echo, how is it good for Rugby league that this area of Sydney is now forever lost to the game to our competitors??

The best thing that RL has going for it is Sydney, and Sydney is completely under attack from the other codes...

Each time Sydney loses a club, we will be creating a vacuum for other codes to come into that area..

Its ridiculous to suggest that having more teams is going to increase crowds?? Can someone explain that logic to me??

How is cutting say Cronulla from the competition going to lead to a bigger crowd for Manly v Parra??

It wont, if anything you loose more supporters then just the teams that have departed.

How many people have said they 'stopped watched RL because of SL" ? yet there clubs are still in the NRL? people do not want change, they want the teams they have seen for years play and only those teams, not some manufactored side with a American nickname.
 

In-goal

Bench
Messages
3,523
firstly Aussie rules is fighting an uphill battle in sydney due to a lack of adequette grounds, remeber cricket fields in the southern states are bigger
 

Blind Freddy

Juniors
Messages
830
Wev'e seen what happens when people lose their team, they become lost from the sport and as a result follow rival codes. ie North Sydney with the Bears

If it ever needed to happen, the best way to reduce the teams in Sydney without as much bitterness and anger would be a promotion/releagtion system only for the Sydney teams.
 

Knightmare

Coach
Messages
10,716
This is sounding dangerously like the "vision". If culling suburban clubs is the way forward, how come the Super 14's, with one team for each capital city, is not rating through the roof. Seems people would still rather watch Penrith play Souths than the NSW Waratahs play the Bulls.
 

Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
8,624
Problem is not too many teams. problem is clubs not marketing themselves. Melbourne also has like 9 Melbourne teams(in the AwFuL) but their clubs market themselves alot better.
Better management can improve the clubs, the comp and the game.
 

T to the T

Juniors
Messages
476
No offence Mark but culling clubs in Sydney is a rediculous idea IMO

I live in Wales, was a big RU fan and had a season ticket at my local Welsh Premiership side in Bridgend RFC. There were 9 clubs in the Welsh Premiership, until this bloke I hadn't heard of before from Australia called David Moffett came to our shores. In 2003 these 9 sides were consolidated into 5 superclubs. Bridgend almagated with Pontypridd to become the Celtic Warriors. The club I loved was in essence no more after being chucked into this relationship. Both sides averaged over 5000 each before (Which considering that Wales has a smaller population than Sydney and the Welsh Premiership is based in the south is very good). I never watched club rugby again, as did many other people. The Celtic Warriors superclub in their very first season averaged around just 3500. They only lasted 1 season before ceasing to exist. Bridgend and Pontypridd now have no top flight RU representation after nearly a century of it, hence I stopped following RU altogether.

The Celtic Crusaders and RL have now filled that void for me.

Culling and merging clubs DOES NOT WORK. The NRL has come too far down the line now IMO, and if a concerted effort was made to make 4-5 sides in Sydney, the same time the Broncos came into existence then I think that there would of been a higher percentage chance of it woring. But I think it's too late now.

I am only a League fan and came into contact with the sport because I was screwed by RU. Don't do the opposite and screw League fans down under and let the heathen forces take advantage again. Haven't you learnt from the Superleague Australia experiment?
 

yosh64

Juniors
Messages
260
The guy makes a very good point. The NRL is only as strong as its weakest team. They will not increase the salary cap unless all the teams can afford the increase, the poorest one holds us back. So why hold on to a team that cannot win and cannot grow its supporter base?

(1stly - NRL should be doing all it can to get clubs up to a minimum standard. Clubs should be striving for best practice in terms of revenue and as a product/business. But let me be clear. I dont have any preconcieved ideas on which team shouldnt be in the NRL, just whichever one cannot meet certain minimum standards should be on the chopping block as they are holding league back).

Mark states that if we loose a team that avg's sh*tpoor crowds (and other standards) over a consistent period and open up a bidding process to other teams wanting to get a start in the NRL (ie, Perth, Wellington, CC, 4th QLD team) who can match the minimum standards, then we are likely to get a team that adds to the health of RL rather than a team that detracts from the success of RL, ie Gold Coast.

Better execution in rationalising the teams is required in marks plan as T to the T is right in saying that it causes too much turmoil in just culling and rationalising clubs.

Minimum standards should be set and a viable second division should be set up for teams relegated. None should ever be cut. They should always have the ability to get back into the NRL. Imagine a second division with Newtown, North Sydney, Wests and Cronulla? or Manly? or Easts? fighting to win and build strong support, crowds and financial base to get back into the NRL. Then after say 4 years the NRL relooks into it and sees that the business plan presented by a second division team is better than what a NRL team can do than they can relegate and promote the teams. Should be specified that it can only happen to teams in QLD and NSW due to them having enough teams to create a second division comp (so Melbourne, NZ, Canberra are safe until they have a second team).

Im sure my idea is not perfect but its better than just culling teams from Syd for the sake of it.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,446
Cutting Cronulla(what a friggin joke) because of a one off crowd of 6,400 odd,on a freezing night with rain hanging around,with live telecast on ch9,with a team of no names(virtual reserve graders),and the team down the end of the table.How do I know I was there freezing my nuts off.
The club is the only one in Sydney that owns its own ground,is getting another $9m stand next year.
This club's averages at recent times have been amongst the highest in Sydney.
When the Bears were given the flick where did the majority of their fans go to union and AFL not to another RL club.
I know of 3 groups of families who follow AFL more than RL,because of the StG/Ill amalgamation.
If a club goes broke and has to do something then I can understand somewhat.
If no one has learnt what the SL war did in reducing teams in Sydney,and giving Victorian fumbleball a leg up,then they are airheads.:oops:
AFL is supposed going to spend millions each year in sydney in developing fumbleball,and we get someone on this board suggesting we should cull more sydney teams.:crazy:
 

In-goal

Bench
Messages
3,523
Maybe a few NRL clubs need to get to Melbourne to see why the AFL clubs are so succesful, let's be honest is there a club in Sydney that could match Collingwood in Melbourne?

The problem in Sydney is that the game is uncomfortable, poor facilities and a lack of vision has insured that forever it will be suburban football mixed with QLD super clubs.

The AFL basiclly made it unafordable to play football at suburban grounds and forced all clubs into the major centers i.e. The MCG and Telstra Dome. When suburban footy was still the go in Melbourne crowds of around 15,000 where the norm by the way.

Public transport and the location of stadiums is another massive factor in Sydney, poor train network that is decentralised and freeways that don't join honestly a bloody joke. Further more why would someone from Cronulla want to travel 2 hours across western sydney to see a match at penrith?

Say what you will and say i'm going on about saomething i haven't a clue about but fact is fact, what chance is there of attracting bigger crowds when the people of Sydney are unwilling to travel to home games little own away fixtures!
 

Mary

Juniors
Messages
188
Rather than cutting teams from the comp, maybe there should be a push to increase the quality of the live experience for fans. As it stands, the admission prices are too high, food and drink prices are too high and there are too many dickhead gound announcers.

As it stands, watching RL live on 9 or on Fox is cheaper, more convenient and far more comfortable for most fans. Watching footy at the local club, I can get a resturant-quality dinner for $12, schooners of beer for $3, I don't have to pay to get in, I get the best seat in the house, and it only takes me 5 mins to get there. At the ground, I pay $20 to get in, get charged $10 for a hot dog and chips that aren't cooked properly, pay $5 for a schooner, have to watch everything end-on most of the time, I'm exposed to the elements and I could be travelling for an hour or so to get there.

Don't get me wrong, live footy is awesome, but you can see what I'm driving at here - watching the footy on TV is a very attractive option, comfort-wise and price-wise and is often a superior viewing experience.

The solution is to either make the live experience better, or make it cheaper. I realise that most clubs walk a financal tightrope, but I refuse to believe that charging $4 for a bottle of coke is the only thing standing in the way of financial oblivion.
 

dimitri

First Grade
Messages
7,980
Mary said:
Rather than cutting teams from the comp, maybe there should be a push to increase the quality of the live experience for fans. As it stands, the admission prices are too high, food and drink prices are too high and there are too many dickhead gound announcers.

As it stands, watching RL live on 9 or on Fox is cheaper, more convenient and far more comfortable for most fans. Watching footy at the local club, I can get a resturant-quality dinner for $12, schooners of beer for $3, I don't have to pay to get in, I get the best seat in the house, and it only takes me 5 mins to get there. At the ground, I pay $20 to get in, get charged $10 for a hot dog and chips that aren't cooked properly, pay $5 for a schooner, have to watch everything end-on most of the time, I'm exposed to the elements and I could be travelling for an hour or so to get there.

Don't get me wrong, live footy is awesome, but you can see what I'm driving at here - watching the footy on TV is a very attractive option, comfort-wise and price-wise and is often a superior viewing experience.

The solution is to either make the live experience better, or make it cheaper. I realise that most clubs walk a financal tightrope, but I refuse to believe that charging $4 for a bottle of coke is the only thing standing in the way of financial oblivion.

couldn't agree more
 

Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
8,624
In-goal said:
Public transport and the location of stadiums is another massive factor in Sydney, poor train network that is decentralised and freeways that don't join honestly a bloody joke. Further more why would someone from Cronulla want to travel 2 hours across western sydney to see a match at penrith?
Fair enough but why would someone from Penrith travel to OP or the city to watch Penrith play Cronulla. Also, why would someone from cronulla do the same? it still takes over an hour and a half to get from Penrith to City and over forty five minutes to get to OP.
 

In-goal

Bench
Messages
3,523
That is the transport Problem, People travel from Geelong to Melbourne in massive numbers to watch the cats play; it's always an excuse rather than a solution.
 

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