CTE

[Perth Red]

It cannot be diagnosed until you are dead so unsure how this would work...
People could get a brain injury from one tackle, and people could be depressed from something totally unrelated and they are 2 of the symptoms....

You can see damage and locations and progression occurring from MRI's. You can redecue chances of it being Alzheimer's from Amyloid build up scanning and biomarkers (interesting work going on on measuring amyloid through the eye). We have just had a break through in being able to measure Tau more accurately. It might not be 100%, yet, but we are getting much better at being able to diagnose the different types of dementia without taking the brain out and the advances of the last few years suggest we will hopefully have biomarkers and more accurate (and cheaper) scanning in years to come.

 

[davi]

The sport won't exist in 20 years

Complete overreach. The popularity of boxing declined from its Golden years of Muhammad Ali and participation rates plummeted from the well known health effects from boxing. It doesn't mean the sport doesn't exist though.

Even the health experts would acknowledge Rugby League is not in the same bracket as boxing either.

 

[The_Frog]

Anyone know what Martin Lang is up to these days.

IIRC he used to get head knocks a fair bit.

Google is your friend. But I'll help, From Wikipedia-

Lang is now a qualified Exercise Scientist and is involved in the medical device industry. He has a research interest in the neuropathology of traumatic brain injury and the biomechanics of intervertebral disc degeneration. He previously worked as a strength and conditioning coach for the Gold Coast United FC soccer team.

Seems like Marty laughed at concussion.

 

[siv]

This like covid wont stop until we find a way to repair damaged brian tissue

Brian tissue like nerves does not heal once damaged significantly

A lot of hardmen forwards will be the first group to show the signs or be diagnosed with dementia

 

[JamesRustle]

A lot of hardmen forwards will be the first group to show the signs or be diagnosed with dementia

Woods will be fine then.

 

[Someguy]

Junior RL reverted back to 5m to remove the high collisions that were introduced by the 10m rule

I am not opposed to the NRL going back to the 5m rule. Case in point the season opener, Souths standing consistently 5m offside actually opened up the game as the wingers were exposed to quick shifts and chip kicks. Guess the only issue would be enforcing that players only go 5m back with the exception of the fullback

 

[muzby]

I’m a big fan of the HIA laws..

But I’d like to see a mandatory minimum one week out if you fail the test on game day.. And if it’s the result of a head high tackle/crusher/spear etc, the offender should serve time too, no fine cop outs..

Was strange watching flashback games on fox over the holidays and hearing the commentators talk about a player being concussed but coming back out in the 2nd half..

I was initially disappointed back when the shoulder charge was banned, but knowing more about head injuries now, seeing some of the old hits feels a bit sickening when you know what has gone on inside the cranium..

Let’s hope as more sports people dedicate their brains to science we can understand more about it & work out how to stop it..

Listening to the symptoms displayed by those who had it is heartbreaking.. People shouldn’t be killing themselves as a byproduct of our entertainment..

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Difference between Ray Price and James Graham is no one knew anything about this in Prices era. It’s only become evident in recent times and guys like James Graham are aware of potential issues and can make choices.

We may know far more about this as research continues...

Those who bag the NRL over their policies here are off the mark IMO. Todd Greenberg said in his tenure that there were 3 big issues in the NRL and CTE was one of them. They banned shoulder charges, brought in HIA testing amongst other things. There may be more actions needed but for the moment the Roosters have shown the way allowing Keary n Cordner extended breaks..

Price, Steve Mortimer n Brett Horsnell were on an ABC panel show last year talking this through. Horsnell was a shell of a man sadly...

But no one could possibly conceive the issues of today to when they played. Today’s players and the sport itself - are aware CTE is a huge issue and factor this into the choices (inc rules) they make etc. It’s taken with the greatest of seriousness by the NRL IMO.

The thing that gets my goat though is how it’s been used to grandstand... Offsiders on ABC especially and their AFL-leads-the-way-crap (“AFL policies are better than NRL”). I didn’t see the 60 minutes piece but wouldn’t surprise me if Channel 9 yet again has shitcanned the sport is promotes itself as “the home of” yet again.

And while CTE is a big issue... I don’t hear anyone ever grandstanding about motor racing. There’s a prime example of a sport where the participants know the risks they face. But the thrill of the sport is what they live for.Sadly many have been killed. But no one bags race drivers for taking the track. It’s mobs like channel 9 and the abc who grandstand at will on any issue with NRL..

 

[muzby]

Difference between Ray Price and James Graham is no one knew anything about this in Prices era. It’s only become evident in recent times and guys like James Graham are aware of potential issues and can make choices.

We may know far more about this as research continues...

Those who bag the NRL over their policies here are off the mark IMO. Todd Greenberg said in his tenure that there were 3 big issues in the NRL and CTE was one of them. They banned shoulder charges, brought in HIA testing amongst other things. There may be more actions needed but for the moment the Roosters have shown the way allowing Keary n Cordner extended breaks..

Price, Steve Mortimer n Brett Horsnell were on an ABC panel show last year talking this through. Horsnell was a shell of a man sadly...

But no one could possibly conceive the issues of today to when they played. Today’s players and the sport itself - are aware CTE is a huge issue and factor this into the choices (inc rules) they make etc. It’s taken with the greatest of seriousness by the NRL IMO.

The thing that gets my goat though is how it’s been used to grandstand... Offsiders on ABC especially and their AFL-leads-the-way-crap (“AFL policies are better than NRL”). I didn’t see the 60 minutes piece but wouldn’t surprise me if Channel 9 yet again has shitcanned the sport is promotes itself as “the home of” yet again.

And while CTE is a big issue... I don’t hear anyone ever grandstanding about motor racing. There’s a prime example of a sport where the participants know the risks they face. But the thrill of the sport is what they live for.Sadly many have been killed. But no one bags race drivers for taking the track. It’s mobs like channel 9 and the abc who grandstand at will on any issue with NRL..

Motorsport is an interesting one..

The amount of safety that’s built into F1 and even Supercars these days is crazy..

I saw a digital reconstruction of the grosjean crash from last year, and if his car didn’t have the halo system, he would have been decapitated, then incinerated..

But there are so many other safety measures they’ve put in place to minimise the impact trauma from a crash (as let’s face it, it’s the sudden stop which kills people).. The softer you make the impact on the body, the more likely you are to survive..

And that’s the problem with NRL.. you get 110kg of muscle colliding with 110kg of muscle, both moving at 20km per hour after running at least 10m each, you’ve got the equivalent of a minor head on car crash in terms of impact on the body & head..

Reducing back to 5m will help..

And TBH there were plenty of exciting games played back in the pre 10m game..

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Motorsport is an interesting one..

The amount of safety that’s built into F1 and even Supercars these days is crazy..

I saw a digital reconstruction of the grosjean crash from last year, and if his car didn’t have the halo system, he would have been decapitated, then incinerated..

But there are so many other safety measures they’ve put in place to minimise the impact trauma from a crash (as let’s face it, it’s the sudden stop which kills people).. The softer you make the impact on the body, the more likely you are to survive..

And that’s the problem with NRL.. you get 110kg of muscle colliding with 110kg of muscle, both moving at 20km per hour after running at least 10m each, you’ve got the equivalent of a minor head on car crash in terms of impact on the body & head..

Reducing back to 5m will help..

And TBH there were plenty of exciting games played back in the pre 10m game..

to quote Jeremy Clarkson...

“Speed has never killed anyone...
It’s the sudden stop that’ll get you”

indeed safety in Motorsport has increased immensely decade on decade in recent times. But even when there’s a crash, who in the media howl about standing down the driver, and all that they do in the NRL etc. But taking it a step further... motor bikes is a whole different ball game... you can’t do much more re safety there. Apart from crash barriers, distance from track etc...

I’m not sure 5m will help that much. It’s the headclash, high tackle, head hitting the ground that causes pretty much all concussions. A legitimate “hit” that crunches the tackler rarely (if at all?) concusses someone, unless it involves one of the 3 aspects above. 5m wouldn’t stop the 3 above... but it could make it worse as defences charge hard as the ball carrier (as you see when a team is hemmed on its own line).

But reducing to 5m in the modern age would stifle the sport so much, and could basically “kill” fatigue in the game.. I can’t ever see it happening.

 

[muzby]

to quote Jeremy Clarkson...

“Speed has never killed anyone...
It’s the sudden stop that’ll get you”

indeed safety in Motorsport has increased immensely decade on decade in recent times. But even when there’s a crash, who in the media howl about standing down the driver, and all that they do in the NRL etc. But taking it a step further... motor bikes is a whole different ball game... you can’t do much more re safety there. Apart from crash barriers, distance from track etc...

I’m not sure 5m will help that much. It’s the headclash, high tackle, head hitting the ground that causes pretty much all concussions. A legitimate “hit” that crunches the tackler rarely (if at all?) concusses someone, unless it involves one of the 3 aspects above. 5m wouldn’t stop the 3 above... but it could make it worse as defences charge hard as the ball carrier (as you see when a team is hemmed on its own line).

But reducing to 5m in the modern age would stifle the sport so much, and could basically “kill” fatigue in the game.. I can’t ever see it happening.

Motorbike Motorsport is crazy..

I can’t even bring myself to buy one for commuting let alone race one..

 

[Danish]

can it happen sooner?

I was thinking of you when teddy slotted that conversion from the sideline after his horrid donkey kicks last round

 

[Perth Red]

Motorsport is an interesting one..

The amount of safety that’s built into F1 and even Supercars these days is crazy..

I saw a digital reconstruction of the grosjean crash from last year, and if his car didn’t have the halo system, he would have been decapitated, then incinerated..

But there are so many other safety measures they’ve put in place to minimise the impact trauma from a crash (as let’s face it, it’s the sudden stop which kills people).. The softer you make the impact on the body, the more likely you are to survive..

And that’s the problem with NRL.. you get 110kg of muscle colliding with 110kg of muscle, both moving at 20km per hour after running at least 10m each, you’ve got the equivalent of a minor head on car crash in terms of impact on the body & head..

Reducing back to 5m will help..

And TBH there were plenty of exciting games played back in the pre 10m game..

tbf Grosjean defied the odds and just got very very lucky. Deaths still occur, Anthoine Hubert being the latest. I’ve spent a small fortune on safety gear and making my race car as safe as I can but I know if it goes tits up that could very easily be it, but I do it anyway because I love it. Same as RL players. We all have different tolerances for risk and as long as you know the risk and if you decide to take it then it’s on you. No one else to blame if it has consequences.

 

[Danish]

On Ray Price...

Is there any evidence his dementia is caused by CTE? Or is just assumed? Is there any statistics showing that rugby league players get dementia at rates different to the general populace?

honestly a lot of this CTE shit tends to be a whole lot of circumstantial evidence without proper science behind it.

It’s undoubtedly not good to get your bell rung, and I’m happy for the game to take steps to avoid these injuries as much as is reasonable, but these sky is falling types that think contact sport will go away are pearl clutching idiots. People are allowed to partake in activities that aren’t good for their long term health. As long as they are aware of the risks going in it should be up to the individual player to make a decision on if they want to take the risk to their own health. It’s their body and their life

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Wonder what the possibility is of all players wearing protective head-gear?

Others have said it doesn't work (and it doesn't) and it probably makes things worse if players are willing to go into head-based contact more in the misguided premise the headgear does anything.

CTE is awful stuff. If anyone isn't aware of Danny Frawley, google him. Shane Tuck too, I think.

 

[siv]

On Ray Price...

Is there any evidence his dementia is caused by CTE? Or is just assumed? Is there any statistics showing that rugby league players get dementia at rates different to the general populace?

honestly a lot of this CTE shit tends to be a whole lot of circumstantial evidence without proper science behind it.

There is something there

I hear it coming up a lot from players in the early 70s. Are the %s higher than the population average. I cant tell. But if feels about twice as high

But we are heading towards an enforced stand-down policy and an 18th concussion sub

Most likely 2 rounds in line with NSWRL policy

While I am fine for a concussion sub to be allowed to play after 2 failed HIAs

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Motorbike Motorsport is crazy..

I can’t even bring myself to buy one for commuting let alone race one..

Dude... same here. My dad was a car freak but told me at a very early age “get on a motorbike and you’re out of the family”...

Was tongue in cheek but the message was there. He ran a panel beating business n tow trucks... saw a lot of awful stuff..

Racing them just blows my mind..

 

[muzby]

On Ray Price...

Is there any evidence his dementia is caused by CTE? Or is just assumed? Is there any statistics showing that rugby league players get dementia at rates different to the general populace?

honestly a lot of this CTE shit tends to be a whole lot of circumstantial evidence without proper science behind it.

It’s undoubtedly not good to get your bell rung, and I’m happy for the game to take steps to avoid these injuries as much as is reasonable, but these sky is falling types that think contact sport will go away are pearl clutching idiots. People are allowed to partake in activities that aren’t good for their long term health. As long as they are aware of the risks going in it should be up to the individual player to make a decision on if they want to take the risk to their own health. It’s their body and their life

CTE is one of those things that you find evidence of after death.

We’ve had a couple of ex AFL footballers kill themselves down here, and they’ve found evidence of CTE in there..


They used to refer to people as being “punch drunk” or “had too many head knocks”..

We have a name for it now..

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

CTE is one of those things that you find evidence of after death.

We’ve had a couple of ex AFL footballers kill themselves down here, and they’ve found evidence of CTE in there..


They used to refer to people as being “punch drunk” or “had too many head knocks”..

We have a name for it now..

Yes mate there was a Geelong player on the ABC panel show (insight?) I mentioned above, along with Mortimer Horsnell etc. John Barnes. He looked a shadow of a man sadly..

And Danny Frawley... one of the guys I think you’re referring to. I saw a separate story on him which was truly gut wrenching. It doesn’t matter what sport you like/dislike, you couldn’t help but get a horrible feeling in your stomach about it. And quite emotional.

the one player that seemingly has CTE people would generally be shocked by is Steve Mortimer.. a halfback... but then seeing some of the hits he copped both as a defender and ball carrier, completely out like a light, then getting ok to play again..... it’s not surprising at all.

I don’t know much about the AFL side of things but the common pattern I see in league is that the players who are showing symptoms are the ones who got knocked out cold a lot, but kept playing on...regularly. Price was the standout in memory for me.

And so, while not fact, hopefully addressing this as the league has will help arrest CTE in its players...

 

[Danish]

CTE is one of those things that you find evidence of after death.

We’ve had a couple of ex AFL footballers kill themselves down here, and they’ve found evidence of CTE in there..


They used to refer to people as being “punch drunk” or “had too many head knocks”..

We have a name for it now..

Sure, but people who aren’t former footballers kill themselves all the time too. Not to mention celebrities and personalities seem to top themselves more often too. we also know the vast majority of pro footballers live long happy lives, so who knows.

CTE is an extremely vague diagnosis at the moment that doesn’t have much agreed science behind it. Its quite self fulfilling too in its diagnosis since it’s only those with obvious mental issues that choose to donate their brains for dissection after death.

As I said I’m sure concussions aren’t good for you. But we don’t really know how risky they actually are long term given CTE is still in its infancy. I suspect the risks are exaggerated right now, but that might be a good thing. Players know the worst case scenario for their future if they get too many concussions. So, if knowing the risks, they want to choose to play on it should be their decision IMO.

I mean FFS is boxing can remain legal - a sport where the entire goal is to concuss your opponent - I don’t know why a player can’t choose to play league