CTE

[myrrh ken]

I mean FFS is boxing can remain legal - a sport where the entire goal is to concuss your opponent - I don’t know why a player can’t choose to play league

You don't play a whole season of boxing. Maybe 2 to 3 fights a year for the pros. And if you can't get up after a ten count, you're done.

 

[davi]

James Graham the other night was applauded for his hard man stance on the issue, stating he was willing to die for the cause etc.

It made for a a bit of a dramatic viewing for Fox league but you’ve got to wonder how many people share the same line of thinking? It’s a bit disturbing, in my opinion.

I don’t know, I might be a bit of a softy.

Former NFL player Ray Lewis made similar comments in this clip below. I'm not sure there would be too many NFL players that would agree with him. I tend to think NFL may potentially go the way of boxing with lower participation rates. I would hate if Rugby league went the same way but I'm not convinced it will if its manage correctly.

Ray Lewis: 'I'm Not Worried About Concussions' in the NFL (Oct. 20, 2015) | Charlie Rose - YouTube

 

[shear_joy9]

the nrl just needs to have all players sign a waiver form stating there is a possibility they end up like pudding brain Cordner.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Sure, but people who aren’t former footballers kill themselves all the time too. Not to mention celebrities and personalities seem to top themselves more often too. we also know the vast majority of pro footballers live long happy lives, so who knows.

CTE is an extremely vague diagnosis at the moment that doesn’t have much agreed science behind it. Its quite self fulfilling too in its diagnosis since it’s only those with obvious mental issues that choose to donate their brains for dissection after death.

As I said I’m sure concussions aren’t good for you. But we don’t really know how risky they actually are long term given CTE is still in its infancy. I suspect the risks are exaggerated right now, but that might be a good thing. Players know the worst case scenario for their future if they get too many concussions. So, if knowing the risks, they want to choose to play on it should be their decision IMO.

I mean FFS is boxing can remain legal - a sport where the entire goal is to concuss your opponent - I don’t know why a player can’t choose to play league

WTF? So because people kill themselves without CTE, and the vast majority of pro footballers apparently live long and happy lives, CTE is probably just a big made up thing?

It's not a vague diagnosis, it is 100% research-proven brain science. It cannot be diagnosed in brain scans in a living person and can only be found in autopsy - and yeah, no surprise that would be contributed to by players who have faced mental health issues via CTE. Read the stories about Shane Tuck and Danny Frawley, they are horrific.

Should it be their choice to play on? Maybe, maybe not - but they need to be educated about how f**ked up their lives can be if concussions contribute to CTE. And sometimes they need to be saved from themselves from the macho 'I don't care, it's all for the glory' mentality of James Graham etc that then has a danger of becoming the rhetoric in the sport.

Only thing I'd agree on is the boxing part. Boxing is a stupid f**king sport. But even then, just because that is a stupid f**king sport doesn't mean league is not as bad, so play on regardless. That's not sound thinking.

 

[nick87]

Former NFL player Ray Lewis made similar comments in this clip below. I'm not sure there would be too many NFL players that would agree with him. I tend to think NFL may potentially go the way of boxing with lower participation rates. I would hate if Rugby league went the same way but I'm not convinced it will if its manage correctly.

Ray Lewis: 'I'm Not Worried About Concussions' in the NFL (Oct. 20, 2015) | Charlie Rose - YouTube

Ray Lewis was willing to mur... obstruct justice for the cause too!

 

[Perth Red]

WTF? So because people kill themselves without CTE, and the vast majority of pro footballers apparently live long and happy lives, CTE is probably just a big made up thing?

It's not a vague diagnosis, it is 100% research-proven brain science. It cannot be diagnosed in brain scans in a living person and can only be found in autopsy - and yeah, no surprise that would be contributed to by players who have faced mental health issues via CTE. Read the stories about Shane Tuck and Danny Frawley, they are horrific.

Should it be their choice to play on? Maybe, maybe not - but they need to be educated about how f**ked up their lives can be if concussions contribute to CTE. And sometimes they need to be saved from themselves from the macho 'I don't care, it's all for the glory' mentality of James Graham etc that then has a danger of becoming the rhetoric in the sport.

Only thing I'd agree on is the boxing part. Boxing is a stupid f**king sport. But even then, just because that is a stupid f**king sport doesn't mean league is not as bad, so play on regardless. That's not sound thinking.

driving your car to work is far more dangerous than playing RL. Life is full of risk, we all have an individual responsibility to make informed choices about how much risk we are willing to take.

 

[NSW Manly]

The CTE lawsuit against English Rugby Union is actually a very big worry. We need to be doing a lot better or we face the same fate.

44 RL players are also a part of that law suit, about 150 RU players, Dan Scarborough has just joined the law suit too.

 

[NSW Manly]

driving your car to work is far more dangerous than playing RL. Life is full of risk, we all have an individual responsibility to make informed choices about how much risk we are willing to take.

shut up, stop coming up with these stupid comparisons. Kaufusi should have been sent-off v the Eels and should have been given a 4 match ban.

That's the same as ppl saying, "I'm not gonna put suncream on, I could be run over by a bus tomorrow"!

 

[Perth Red]

shut up, stop coming up with these stupid comparisons. Kaufusi should have been sent-off v the Eels and should have been given a 4 match ban.

That's the same as ppl saying, "I'm not gonna put suncream on, I could be run over by a bus tomorrow"!

no it’s like saying “I know of the risk of not putting sunscreen on and as an adult I’m going to make that choice if I take the risk”. I mean smoking is one of the most dangerous things you can do for your long term health, but people still do it. If it’s legal then adults have the right to choose if to take the risk, that includes playing RL as a career.

 

[NSW Manly]

no it’s like saying “I know of the risk of not putting sunscreen on and as an adult I’m going to make that choice if I take the risk”. I mean smoking is one of the most dangerous things you can do for your long term health, but people still do it. If it’s legal then adults have the right to choose if to take the risk, that includes playing RL as a career.

No, smoking has benefits for some people's mental health, some ppl claim smoking helps keep them out of mental hospitals. i used to enjoy a androtop, i would still smoke if it wasn't as bad as it is for my lungs, and when my mother dies i might start to smoke again, i take anti-depressants and apparently smoking can help with the transfer of the chemicals to the brain.

 

[Perth Red]

No, smoking has benefits for some people's mental health, some ppl claim smoking helps keep them out of mental hospitals. i used to enjoy a androtop, i would still smoke if it wasn't as bad as it is for my lungs, and when my mother dies i might start to smoke again, i take anti-depressants and apparently smoking can help with the transfer of the chemicals to the brain.

They used to believe smoking prevented Alzheimer’s, then they realised it was because most smokers died before hitting the high risk age group! Yeh I’m sure it helps some people deal with. Mental health issues, shame it’s absolutely poison to the body. But you do make my point, despite the significant risk some adults still decide to take them for their own reasons. Like deciding to take the risk of developing CTE to play the sport you love, or earn serious coin playing professionally.

 

[NSW Manly]

They used to believe smoking prevented Alzheimer’s, then they realised it was because most smokers died before hitting the high risk age group! Yeh I’m sure it helps some people deal with. Mental health issues, shame it’s absolutely poison to the body. But you do make my point, despite the significant risk some adults still decide to take them for their own reasons. Like deciding to take the risk of developing CTE to play the sport you love, or earn serious coin playing professionally.

yes it's a choice, all i want is for people to stop saying stupid comparisons, maybe the nice way of saying it is "unhelpful comparisons".

 

[Danish]

WTF? So because people kill themselves without CTE, and the vast majority of pro footballers apparently live long and happy lives, CTE is probably just a big made up thing?

It's not a vague diagnosis, it is 100% research-proven brain science. It cannot be diagnosed in brain scans in a living person and can only be found in autopsy - and yeah, no surprise that would be contributed to by players who have faced mental health issues via CTE. Read the stories about Shane Tuck and Danny Frawley, they are horrific.

Should it be their choice to play on? Maybe, maybe not - but they need to be educated about how f**ked up their lives can be if concussions contribute to CTE. And sometimes they need to be saved from themselves from the macho 'I don't care, it's all for the glory' mentality of James Graham etc that then has a danger of becoming the rhetoric in the sport.

Only thing I'd agree on is the boxing part. Boxing is a stupid f**king sport. But even then, just because that is a stupid f**king sport doesn't mean league is not as bad, so play on regardless. That's not sound thinking.

“CTE is a very rare disorder that is not yet well understood”

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...c-encephalopathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20370921

Graham’s opinion on concussion is NOT macho. It’s pragmatic. Not everyone’s goal in life is to avoid death at all costs (a fool’s errand since we all die anyway). I drink alcohol despite knowing it had a negative impact on my health. I eat unhealthy food sometimes, because I prefer the way it tastes. We all make little trade offs against living our longest possible lives every day.

if grown adults want to take part in dangerous activity that is their prerogative. If you don’t want to, that is your prerogative. It is not your or anyone else’s place to tell another grown adult what they can and and cannot do based on your own opinions.


:edit: added in the NOT for graham

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Make the players smaller by bringing fatigue back into the game. No more interchanges. Just 4 replacements.

 

[NSW Manly]

Make the players smaller by bringing fatigue back into the game. No more interchanges. Just 4 replacements.

Aye, possibly go to a 5m defensive line with 11-a-side. No 40/20 kick. 7m in-goal area. 4 on the bench as is now, and say have 10 interchanges including HIA's. Players will fake injuries if only replacements allowed.

 

[Perth Red]

yes it's a choice, all i want is for people to stop saying stupid comparisons, maybe the nice way of saying it is "unhelpful comparisons".

why is it a stupid comparison? Life is full of risks, many greater than others. As long as as we are informed and it’s legal it’s our choice as adults to take the risks or not. Be that driving your car to work, smoking 20 a day or playing RL.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

“CTE is a very rare disorder that is not yet well understood”

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...c-encephalopathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20370921

Graham’s opinion on concussion is macho. It’s pragmatic. Not everyone’s goal in life is to avoid death at all costs (a fool’s errand since we all die anyway). I drink alcohol despite knowing it had a negative impact on my health. I eat unhealthy food sometimes, because I prefer the way it tastes. We all make little trade offs against living our longest possible lives every day.

if grown adults want to take part in dangerous activity that is their prerogative. If you don’t want to, that is your prerogative. It is not your or anyone else’s place to tell another grown adult what they can and and cannot do based on your own opinions.

Haha! Pragmatic! Nice one. It's sensible and practical to accept head knocks as collateral damage of playing sport. Apparently.

The point is that the science and preventative measures are there to aid with decision making. The same as the information given to you around alcohol, shit food etc. If you want to still ingest those things, you are more than welcome to. Same in rugby league - if you choose to play, yes you accept the risks. But the pragmatic (!) approach is to balance the negating of those risks against keeping the same fabric of the sport that allows it to be so popular. And that's what they're trying to do with the science, the HIA, independent doctors if it goes that way etc. Same as there is regulation around smoking, liquor laws etc. It's not a free for all.

The game is trying to go away from the macho, badge of honour rubbish that particularly used to abound around concussions. And it should. James Graham is free to do what he wants with his life but saying rugby league is worth dying for might be his edict, but it's a pretty irresponsible message.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

driving your car to work is far more dangerous than playing RL. Life is full of risk, we all have an individual responsibility to make informed choices about how much risk we are willing to take.

Can't agree with that completely. Yes there is individual responsibility but there is just as much, and more on the industry to provide a safe environment because you have a whole bunch of young men who can be uninformed, unintelligent, swayed by this macho glorification of playing through injury and need an industry that looks after their wellbeing.

Yeah of course, head injuries are still going to exist. But if you can lessen the amount of them without completing ruining the fabric of the game, why wouldn't that be a good thing?

 

[NSW Manly]

why is it a stupid comparison? Life is full of risks, many greater than others. As long as as we are informed and it’s legal it’s our choice as adults to take the risks or not. Be that driving your car to work, smoking 20 a day or playing RL.

there are laws for driving a car, some possibly introduced to save really confident drivers from themselves, but obviously also to protect other drivers from the over confident ones. Athletes sometimes need protecting from themselves, it's what's said up here, and I agree.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

there are laws for driving a car, some possibly introduced to save really confident drivers from themselves, but obviously also to protect other drivers from the over confident ones. Athletes sometimes need protecting from themselves, it's what's said up here, and I agree.

100%.