Daniel Anderson - not doing his f**ken job?

[Eels Dude]

Statistically, the team that dominates possession is more likely to win the penalty count as teams are rarely penalised with the ball. So then you have to argue why do teams play better at home so that they dominate possession which leads them to winning the penalty count? Or is it winning the penalty count that enables them to win possession? You've got a whole bunch of chicken and egg scenarios you have to look at.

 

[mrpwnd]

Statistically, the team that dominates possession is more likely to win the penalty count as teams are rarely penalised with the ball. So then you have to argue why do teams play better at home so that they dominate possession which leads them to winning the penalty count? Or is it winning the penalty count that enables them to win possession? You've got a whole bunch of chicken and egg scenarios you have to look at.

By that very same argument you leave room for the idea that maybe the team that's better on the day are more efficient in giving away less penalties. I agree with you, there's a lot of variables that come into play - but it goes both ways.

Given how the eels play atm, even a favourable penalty count wouldn't do them much anyway. Bit of a moot point atm, unfortunately.

 

[B-Tron 3000]

So tell me... Why does the home team win the count?

This is not exclusive to NRL. It happens in pretty much every sport in the world. Home teams get advantages from refs, and players / teams considered great get advantages. Combine the two...

I remember a study undertaken in European football and it came out that the home team got a certain amount of free kicks more than the away team on average.

It's simply human nature to get caught up in the momentum and atmosphere, and to believe that the home team is on top and deserved of the calls.

I also recall plenty of players complaining that Michael Jordan used to "push off" with his forearm. And he often did. But the refs knew how great he was and so when he did something good they assumed that he had done it within the rules.

Look at cricket as well. The Aussie cricket team used to get plenty of dodgy calls. No longer. India get all sorts of dodgy calls go their way when they play at home, even since the introduction of neutral umpires, because of the fever pitch atmosphere they create. Sitting at home, you can sense that the umpire is about to make a bad call because of the momentum and atmosphere. But it would be nearly impossible for the men in the middle to recognise they were being influenced, and even harder to stay objective even if they did recognise it.

Parra simply have to deal with the fact that we are a terrible team, and until we start to turn that around we are going to be on the wrong end of the penalty count. And it will be worse when we are away from home.

 

[B-Tron 3000]

It's not Anderson's fault and there's nothing he can do about it.

The influence of referees won't be fixed by improving the refs, it will only be fixed by improving the rules of the game to make judgements more black and white.

Think digital, rather than analogue - every situation should be clearly X or clearly Y. The grey areas need to be minimised, if not eliminated altogether.

Hmmm, given the nature of the ruck, it's going to be almost impossible to eliminate altogether, but I agree they need to minimise grey areas.

Look at obstruction. They had a black / white ruling and it was going well. Then they changed it and now they are back in no-mans land. I think it probably could have stayed black and white with a bit of tweaking.

Failing that, penalties need to be toned down so that they're not such a massive game changer. Because at the moment they not only restart the tackle count, but boost teams 40 or 50 metres downfield. That's unfair when it's riding on some referee's judgement over whether a defender held down a tackled player vs the tackled player making it hard for the defender to get off cleanly. Or whether a runner lost the ball in the tackle vs an intentional strip.

Agree totally.

Bring in the "short-arm" penalty.



As I've said before, I also think the structure of the refs setup is wrong. No man, not Daniel Anderson, not anyone, can be expected to coach the refs to be consistent if we are constantly changing the interpretations. Rule changes need to happen once a year - after the season - so that the refs can be trained through the off-season to adjudicate on those changes.

Apart from the consistency that this will bring, it will also mean that rules aren't changed with knee-jerk reactions mid-season.

 

[Gary Gutful]

there is no all black or all white - grey is where it's at man ..... need some decent refs who can distinguish the shades of grey

We are not going to list out grey things again are we?

If so, I'll start with elephants.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Why does the home team win the count?

Does the home team win every penalty count?

 

[Gary Gutful]

Given how the eels play atm, even a favourable penalty count wouldn't do them much anyway. Bit of a moot point atm, unfortunately.

Not sure about that. The eels might be sitting on the bottom of the ladder, but they are close enough to the other teams to capitalise on a favourable penalty count and the ensuing possession advantage.

 

[strider]

We are not going to list out grey things again are we?

If so, I'll start with elephants.

ok - if u insist .... cory parkers hair

 

[Casper The Ghost]

Come on poo bear...read between the lines.
The refereeing has been atrocious this year, agreed too by all the coaches.
The state of origin 2nd game is a classic example.
Watch the 1st half again and concentrate on the adjudication only.
Absolute joke.
So tell me... Why does the home team win the count?

"wink" "wink"

 

[The EELiminator]

Big call. I think we should put that to the test for the rest of the season. Are you happy to post your tips for the remaining games based on the referees?

Pou Pou will probably say it isn't a big enough sample size but I'd be keen for yourself (or anyone who agrees that different refs cause different results) to be put to the test.

Are you in sir?

ok here we go i didnt know who was reffing who when i picked my tips so we'll see what happens
(bold names are home teams)
souths, storm, panthers, titans, warriors, cowboys, roosters

 

[mrpwnd]

Not sure about that. The eels might be sitting on the bottom of the ladder, but they are close enough to the other teams to capitalise on a favourable penalty count and the ensuing possession advantage.

I guess we can agree to disagree. If I see the Eels genuinely robbed of a win as a result of poor refereeing, then I'll gladly agree. Unfortunately, nothing this season has suggested this team has come close. If anything, the Eels are lucky to have a ref so biased against them lol, it almost sounds like a legitimate force to re-direct the reality of mediocrity.

Just waiting for the 2014 to start.

 

[Gary Gutful]

ok here we go i didnt know who was reffing who when i picked my tips so we'll see what happens
(bold names are home teams)
souths, storm, panthers, titans, warriors, cowboys, roosters

Who is refereeing is the important bit! Referees are listed below. Based on the refs are you still happy with your tips. If so, why?

Souths v Canberra - Ben Cummins, Chris James

Tigers v Storm - Jared Maxwell, Grant Atkins

Penrith v Dragons - Gavin Badger, Phil Haines

Newcastle v Gold Coast - Shane Hayne, Jason Robinson

Warriors v Broncos - Gerard Sutton, Henry Perenara

Cowboys v Sharks - Adam Devicich, Alan Shortall

Roosters v Eagles - Matt Cecchin, Gavin Morris

 

[The EELiminator]

Who is refereeing is the important bit! Referees are listed below. Based on the refs are you still happy with your tips. If so, why?

Souths v Canberra - Ben Cummins, Chris James

Tigers v Storm - Jared Maxwell, Grant Atkins

Penrith v Dragons - Gavin Badger, Phil Haines

Newcastle v Gold Coast - Shane Hayne, Jason Robinson

Warriors v Broncos - Gerard Sutton, Henry Perenara

Cowboys v Sharks - Adam Devicich, Alan Shortall

Roosters v Eagles - Matt Cecchin, Gavin Morris

im a bit worried now about taking the gold coast with robinson reffing but wait and see i guess

he did everything but throw on a titans jersey and run the ball when the eels played them in round 6

(the first of ricky's ref rants with a 8-1 penalty count at one stage) but they are the away team this week

p.s. yikes! robinson and hayne together they will need backup whistles in case one breaks in the second half

 

[oldmancraigy]

I thought what Gary was looking for was for someone to validate the claim that they could predict winners based on the referees alone?

 

[The EELiminator]

I guess we can agree to disagree. If I see the Eels genuinely robbed of a win as a result of poor refereeing, then I'll gladly agree. Unfortunately, nothing this season has suggested this team has come close.

go rewatch titans v eels in round 6 then we'll talk

 

[The EELiminator]

I thought what Gary was looking for was for someone to validate the claim that they could predict winners based on the referees alone?

we can still look at which teams i picked and look for instances of unbalanced penalty counts or refereeing controversies

i didnt see anything too untoward in souths v raiders last night apart from a possible forward pass from dummy half in souths first try it wasnt shown in the replay so i didnt get a good look at it

raiders actually won the penalty count 6-4 so they can't complain about that

 

[Gary Gutful]

I thought what Gary was looking for was for someone to validate the claim that they could predict winners based on the referees alone?

Spot on OMC. I'm not sure that's exactly what was put forward but we will see what we can make of it after the weekend finishes.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

I knew the Rabbitohs would win with those refs.

I bet the Storm beat the Tigers too with the refs they've got.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I was being kind then wasn't I? I don't think we will get much out of the above.

What we really need is people to pick the winner based on the referees only. This is what a few people, including Eeliminator claimed they could do.

Made-up example:

Roosters v Eagles (Refs: Matt Cecchin, Gavin Morris) - Cecchin has a history of favouring the home team, including a 14-6 penalty count last time these two played at the SFS. Eeliminators Tip - Roosters.

The offer is still open to anyone who claims they can do it.

Come on folks, give it a try. You won't be penalised if you don't succeed!

 

[Gary Gutful]

I knew the Rabbitohs would win with those refs.

I bet the Storm beat the Tigers too with the refs they've got.

Why is that?