Decision time looming

[Iron Lion]

I think he raises some very valid points. This guy gets criticized alot but I only see common sense in his words this time round.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league...rriors-coach-andrew-mcfadden-says-graham-lowe

Decision time looming for Warriors coach Andrew McFadden, says Graham Lowe

Shane Wenzlick / Phototek.co.nz
Graham Lowe says he doesn't want to be a mentor to Warriors coach Andrew McFadden.



New Zealand league legend Graham Lowe says the time is coming when Andrew McFadden has to decide whether he should stay at the Warriors.
"He's got a lot on his plate and he's got some big decisions to make," said Lowe, who added he wasn't interested in being a mentor to McFadden.
"The problem is that there are no signs of light at the end of the tunnel.

PHIL WALTER/GETTY IMAGES
Warriors coach Andrew McFadden has big decisions to make, says Graham Lowe.



"I haven't seen anything for 12 months."

​Former All Blacks coach Sir Graham Henry has spent the past fortnight providing support for the club's NRL and support programme and is due to continue for a few more weeks.
However, results have been dreadful since Henry became involved, with a 30-18 loss to the Panthers followed by a 38-12 thrashing at the hands of the Raiders.
The club's chances of making the top eight are slim. But Lowe, who has coached the Kiwis, Queensland and the Sea Eagles as well as being CEO of the club on Sydney's northern beaches, won't get involved with McFadden.
"I would always like to help them, but I don't have an interest in being a mentor for Andrew to tell the truth," Lowe said.
"If Andrew wanted me to, he would have rung me. I think it's got to come from Andrew."




The two clashed earlier in the season when Lowe said there was a 'bro culture' at the club.
McFadden hit back, saying: "He's obviously very keen to get back into the game, we'll just leave it at that.
"Graham has obviously been around the game a long time.
"He's got ideas on the way things should be done and I've got some other ideas."
Lowe said he has had discussions with Warriors managing director Jim Doyle about the problems at the club, but that's as far as his involvement has gone.
Lowe feels that McFadden may not appreciate what he has to say about the team and also wonders that if a coach needs a mentor, is he really up to the job anyway?
"With someone like me, I don't think you're in those roles for a popularity contest, you are in there to get the job done," he said.
"I'd have my views and they'd be strong views and that wouldn't have suited Andrew.
"I also think that if you have to have a mentor, then gee whiz, you've got to question whether you're up to the role."
The 38-12 loss to the Raiders in New Plymouth last weekend was about as bad as it can get in terms of performances and Lowe says he can't see things turning around anytime soon.
"There is no one anywhere near their best," he said.
"There is not one single player at the club that's playing to their best, so that's a worry."
The Warriors parted ways with centre Konrad Hurrell this week, with 2-1/2 years left to run on his contract. Lowe said it was a disappointment to lose a player with his abilities.
"It's a shame when things happen like that, but at the end of the day, if he's not fitting in, he's not fitting in and there's no kind way of doing it," he said.
"I still think though that it's all about man management and respect.
"Without knowing the details of what's going on at the club, you'd probably find that Konrad is a nice guy, an out there bloke who's lacked maturity, but you can easily find that.
"But it will be interesting to see how he goes under another set of management."

 

[Dr Crane]

I wish we had some type of ongoing thread about this.

 

[vvvrulz]

Sounded like the usual grumpy and unconstructive whinge to me.

Hot air.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Sounded like the usual grumpy and unconstructive whinge to me.

Hot air.

I think you're playing the man not the ball...most of those thoughts have been echoed and agreed with in here. Especially the 'if you need a mentor, are you up to it?' part.

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

when things are shit they always go to lowe or mgahan for opinions.

never ask them things when things are going well

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Because they're both bitter, twisted old men. They do the same for Dawn Fraser in Australia for all Olympic-based stuff (she's gone to that old lady age of insanity), used to be Neil Harvey in their cricket,

These people are absolutely irrelevant today but the media know they'll get a good soundbite. And Lowey, McGahan etc get to feel like they still belong.

McGahan's columns in particular are absolutely shit.

 

[vvvrulz]

I think you're playing the man not the ball...most of those thoughts have been echoed and agreed with in here. Especially the 'if you need a mentor, are you up to it?' part.

Nice analogy, you might be right but the point is moot.

Whether he's right or not, whether we agree or not, he's still a grumpy annoying bastard adding nothing of substance. If he's such a great rugby league brain why isn't he ever offering up any good ideas or intelligent commentary?

Sure we criticize, but we're annoyed fans having a discussion, we're in no position to offer something to Cappy.

Get this:
"I would always like to help them, but I don't have an interest in being a mentor for Andrew to tell the truth"

Sums it up really. He wants to help? When has he ever helped out?

Then goes on to more or less state "stuff you McFadden, I know you're struggling, and I'm going to slam you some more and remind you I'm not going to help you".

Whether or not Cappy is a good coach, he's handled Lowe well by ignoring him.

 

[Iafeta]

I really like Cappy - he seems like a genuine bloke with a heart of gold. I feel very sorry for the guy, but unfortunately its just not working is it. There's no doubt in my mind that he will go at the end of the season. I think he is the sort of chap that probably needed another 3-4 years as an assistant coach, but not under Matthew Elliott. A genuinely successful coach may have really helped his ability to understand man management, upgrading tactics etc.

In terms of Graham Lowe, there was another news source that published his comments and he was termed a former Manly, Wigan and Queensland coach. I did find it somewhat humorous that his failed stints at North Queensland and in a leadership capacity with the Auckland Warriors were completely unacknowledged. I believe the game passes by most fairly quickly, it evolves very quickly - what was acceptable or successful 10 years doesn't cut it now. Aside from Wayne Bennett, who has had success largely with a club that has enormous resources year in year out, it seems most from Lowe's era just couldn't keep up - Sheens, Brian Smith, Elliott, etc come to mind. I find most of Lowe's comments or comments from ex-Kiwis etc to be based on the past and largely invalid guesswork at best.

 

[auckwarriors]

I really like Cappy - he seems like a genuine bloke with a heart of gold. I feel very sorry for the guy, but unfortunately its just not working is it. There's no doubt in my mind that he will go at the end of the season.

Agree with you totally re: Cappy. There's been plenty of character assassination of the guy recently, both online and in the media, which in my mind is mostly unfair. While the prevailing characterisation of Cappy at the moment is that he is completely and utterly incompetent, that the players hate and refuse to play for him, etc...it remains that at times, the team has played some terrific football with him in charge and he is clearly an intelligent, insightful and - important for a coach - extremely patient man. Many of his players rate him extremely highly - Chad Townsend credited him alone with his emergence into a genuine NRL player, a couple of weeks ago Lillyman described him as the best young coach in the game. Even attempts to blame McFadden solely for Hurrell's failures miss the mark - Konrad was at his career best in 2014 once Cappy took over from Elliott. He has only himself to blame.

However, for whatever reason, it seems to have stopped working at the Warriors right now. That happens in the NRL - the difference between the best and the worst is so minute, and sometimes teams just need a change to click into gear. History shows us that a long run of outs pretty much inevitably ends up costing the coach his job, even those with a fair prior record. Ivan Cleary was Dally M Coach of the Year in 2014, unemployed a year later. Daniel Anderson here, Brian Smith from the Roosters and Kevin Moore at the Bulldogs suffered similar fates (and Moore was practically never seen again).

Unfortunately for Cappy, he never earned enough capital in the first place to see him through a really rough patch like this. I also expect him to be packing his bags at the end of the year. Similar to Penrith's switch from Cleary to Griffin, really - the change was organised and agreed behind closed doors well before anybody outside had an inkling. Gould got out of that with very little blood on his hands, and I expect Doyle will operate in a very similar way - unless, of course, there's a Warriors resurgence this season. Things can change very quickly, and unexpectedly, in this game.

What's happening right now really reminds me of Cleary and John Hart's first rebuild at the Warriors in 2005 and 2006 after the unmitigated disaster that was 2004. A bunch of once seemingly indispensable players left the club in the space of a year, guys like Stace, Clinton Toopi, Faumuina, Betham, Paleaaesina, Villasanti, Guttenbeil, Brent Webb...then a bunch of new faces come in, and we re-emerged into our most sustained period of success ever. At the moment I feel like the past few years of failure have been a result of trying too hard to hang onto 2011. Maybe we just need to realise just how far we've drifted away since then, and some minor retooling isn't going to take us back there.

 

[spear tackle]

All I got from that article what was wrong with the club and I'm not going to do anything to help even if begged, so all pretty unconstructive

 

[Blair]

...In terms of Graham Lowe...I did find it somewhat humorous that his failed stints at North Queensland and in a leadership capacity with the Auckland Warriors were completely unacknowledged...

He was also sacked as Kiwis coach after being hammered, in the three home and away tests, against the '86 Kangaroos. This, too, is often overlooked. Probably because of the great work he'd done with the national team before that series.

When the Kangaroos rose to another level his coaching, or team, seemingly couldn't.

 

[vvvrulz]

Because they're both bitter, twisted old men. They do the same for Dawn Fraser in Australia for all Olympic-based stuff (she's gone to that old lady age of insanity), used to be Neil Harvey in their cricket,

Ian Chappell took over the mantle.

 

[Skinner]

Agree with you totally re: Cappy. There's been plenty of character assassination of the guy recently, both online and in the media, which in my mind is mostly unfair. While the prevailing characterisation of Cappy at the moment is that he is completely and utterly incompetent, that the players hate and refuse to play for him, etc...it remains that at times, the team has played some terrific football with him in charge and he is clearly an intelligent, insightful and - important for a coach - extremely patient man. Many of his players rate him extremely highly - Chad Townsend credited him alone with his emergence into a genuine NRL player, a couple of weeks ago Lillyman described him as the best young coach in the game. Even attempts to blame McFadden solely for Hurrell's failures miss the mark - Konrad was at his career best in 2014 once Cappy took over from Elliott. He has only himself to blame.

However, for whatever reason, it seems to have stopped working at the W

arriors right now. That happens in the NRL - the difference between the best and the worst is so minute, and sometimes teams just need a change to click into gear. History shows us that a long run of outs pretty much inevitably ends up costing the coach his job, even those with a fair prior record. Ivan Cleary was Dally M Coach of the Year in 2014, unemployed a year later. Daniel Anderson here, Brian Smith from the Roosters and Kevin Moore at the Bulldogs suffered similar fates (and Moore was practically never seen again).

Unfortunately for Cappy, he never earned enough capital in the first place to see him through a really rough patch like this. I also expect him to be packing his bags at the end of the year. Similar to Penrith's switch from Cleary to Griffin, really - the change was organised and agreed behind closed doors well before anybody outside had an inkling. Gould got out of that with very little blood on his hands, and I expect Doyle will operate in a very similar way - unless, of course, there's a Warriors resurgence this season. Things can change very quickly, and unexpectedly, in this game.

What's happening right now really reminds me of Cleary and John Hart's first rebuild at the Warriors in 2005 and 2006 after the unmitigated disaster that was 2004. A bunch of once seemingly indispensable players left the club in the space of a year, guys like Stace, Clinton Toopi, Faumuina, Betham, Paleaaesina, Villasanti, Guttenbeil, Brent Webb...then a bunch of new faces come in, and we re-emerged into our most sustained period of success ever. At the moment I feel like the past few years of failure have been a result of trying too hard to hang onto 2011. Maybe we just need to realise just how far we've drifted away since then, and some minor retooling isn't going to take us back there.

Very good post auckwarriors

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I really like Cappy - he seems like a genuine bloke with a heart of gold. I feel very sorry for the guy, but unfortunately its just not working is it. There's no doubt in my mind that he will go at the end of the season. I think he is the sort of chap that probably needed another 3-4 years as an assistant coach, but not under Matthew Elliott. A genuinely successful coach may have really helped his ability to understand man management, upgrading tactics etc.

In terms of Graham Lowe, there was another news source that published his comments and he was termed a former Manly, Wigan and Queensland coach. I did find it somewhat humorous that his failed stints at North Queensland and in a leadership capacity with the Auckland Warriors were completely unacknowledged. I believe the game passes by most fairly quickly, it evolves very quickly - what was acceptable or successful 10 years doesn't cut it now. Aside from Wayne Bennett, who has had success largely with a club that has enormous resources year in year out, it seems most from Lowe's era just couldn't keep up - Sheens, Brian Smith, Elliott, etc come to mind. I find most of Lowe's comments or comments from ex-Kiwis etc to be based on the past and largely invalid guesswork at best.

Can't disagree with a word of this. McFadden is a good man. He's just a shit coach. That's possible. He had no level of success as a player, not being involved in any great environments, then moved to a coaching career where he worked in unsuccessful environments under Elliott. That's not his fault that a) he's never been exposed to winning environments and systems and b) that our previous dickhead CEO firstly appointed him then reappointed him. McFadden won't work in our club ever again but I wish him very well from hereon in, and in 10 years time he may be a very good NRL coach. But he's not now, and especially not at our club.

As for Lowe, time absolutely moves on. The unfortunate and often sad thing is these guys who were feted during their playing or coaching career, when they step away - no one cares. And that's hard for them to take sometimes. They miss the crowds, the adulation, the press conferences where people give a shit what they think. But our lame duck media trot them out because it's a cheap and sensational headline. Mind you, I probably prefer them having a dig to Monty Betham and his cheerleaders not being willing or able to properly dissect a game or offer any criticism.

 

[Rich102]

But, but, but.....Monty's a media star!

 

[MKEB...]

I lost any respect for Lowie after the Tainui debacle. Now he is simply a rent-a-quote talking head.

I think you might find that a certain tour to PNG ended his reins with the Kiwis.

 

[TheDMC]

Because they're both bitter, twisted old men. They do the same for Dawn Fraser in Australia for all Olympic-based stuff (she's gone to that old lady age of insanity), used to be Neil Harvey in their cricket,

These people are absolutely irrelevant today but the media know they'll get a good soundbite. And Lowey, McGahan etc get to feel like they still belong.

McGahan's columns in particular are absolutely shit.

Dawn Frazer's twitter comments on Adam Scott not going to the Olympics were appalling. Made me want to punch her in the face.

 

[TheDMC]

Agree with you totally re: Cappy. There's been plenty of character assassination of the guy recently, both online and in the media, which in my mind is mostly unfair. While the prevailing characterisation of Cappy at the moment is that he is completely and utterly incompetent, that the players hate and refuse to play for him, etc...it remains that at times, the team has played some terrific football with him in charge and he is clearly an intelligent, insightful and - important for a coach - extremely patient man. Many of his players rate him extremely highly - Chad Townsend credited him alone with his emergence into a genuine NRL player, a couple of weeks ago Lillyman described him as the best young coach in the game. Even attempts to blame McFadden solely for Hurrell's failures miss the mark - Konrad was at his career best in 2014 once Cappy took over from Elliott. He has only himself to blame.

However, for whatever reason, it seems to have stopped working at the Warriors right now. That happens in the NRL - the difference between the best and the worst is so minute, and sometimes teams just need a change to click into gear. History shows us that a long run of outs pretty much inevitably ends up costing the coach his job, even those with a fair prior record. Ivan Cleary was Dally M Coach of the Year in 2014, unemployed a year later. Daniel Anderson here, Brian Smith from the Roosters and Kevin Moore at the Bulldogs suffered similar fates (and Moore was practically never seen again).

Unfortunately for Cappy, he never earned enough capital in the first place to see him through a really rough patch like this. I also expect him to be packing his bags at the end of the year. Similar to Penrith's switch from Cleary to Griffin, really - the change was organised and agreed behind closed doors well before anybody outside had an inkling. Gould got out of that with very little blood on his hands, and I expect Doyle will operate in a very similar way - unless, of course, there's a Warriors resurgence this season. Things can change very quickly, and unexpectedly, in this game.

What's happening right now really reminds me of Cleary and John Hart's first rebuild at the Warriors in 2005 and 2006 after the unmitigated disaster that was 2004. A bunch of once seemingly indispensable players left the club in the space of a year, guys like Stace, Clinton Toopi, Faumuina, Betham, Paleaaesina, Villasanti, Guttenbeil, Brent Webb...then a bunch of new faces come in, and we re-emerged into our most sustained period of success ever. At the moment I feel like the past few years of failure have been a result of trying too hard to hang onto 2011. Maybe we just need to realise just how far we've drifted away since then, and some minor retooling isn't going to take us back there.

Great read and informative