Difference for NZ in winning union and league World Cups

[Kurt Angle]

You do realize that a lot of players that go through the junior warriors system are more than likely drawn from the rugby union talent pool, right?

What does that have to do with the Kangaroos? The discussion he has been focused on how much better the Wallabies would be if there was a united code?

To say "they wouldn't be good because they can't scrum or lineout"...

???

And you accuse me of being a supremacist. If the likes of Inglis and haybe had of played RU, they'd have learned to play like a RU player.

A lot of them would have RU on their resumes. Yet they've enjoyed a heap of success (two premierships)

And a hell of a lot more failure. The Warriors have been widely regarded as an under-performing tea,

against aussie teams full of RL nurtured players. Might I add, that the talent pool is only a tiny, little city called Auckland.

Which if you're trying to assert that's a poor reflection of RL in Australia, is a weaker assertion about RU worldwide, that a tiny pool of NZ can beat the world.

If you watched any RU, instead of being a RL supremacist, you would know that RU is very position specific and rarely is anyone ever played out of position, as is rife in RL.

And?

By the time a player (especially forwards) reaches NRL standard, you'll be hard pressed to find a position for him in union.

No, that's not it at all. This is the conclusion an idiot makes when trying to think for himself.

The difference in intuition which is why...

As good as SBW was in union, he lacked the kicking skills to be a world class outside centre or to take gamble on in a rwc final. But he'd be a walk-in start for any international league side.

Yup, he is an outstanding player at second row in RL.

But that's not reflective of anything.

Rogers, Tuiqri, Sailor and Farrell were all better players at RL than Jason Robinson, yet JR became the better of all of them at RU. What it says is certain players have differing ceilings.

What this relates to at this topic, is that no where in the world of RU does anyone have the ceiling of Hayne or Inglis.

We've see the RUWC down here twice in the last 10 years.

There is more talent in the NRL than there is in the entire world of RU. Teams like Argentina and Ireland, with absolutely pedestrian centre partnerships win games, Arg coming top 4 in 2007. The Wallabies with an eternally pissweak forward pack are another.

That is why NZ can beat them all the time, not because the All Blacks have world leading talent to classify them the 'most dominant team in the world', but because every other team in the world is devoid of talent.

 

[Masoe_eats_babies]

You do realize that a lot of players that go through the junior warriors system are more than likely drawn from the rugby union talent pool, right? A lot of them would have RU on their resumes. Yet they've enjoyed a heap of success (two premierships) against aussie teams full of RL nurtured players. Might I add, that the talent pool is only a tiny, little city called Auckland.

If you watched any RU, instead of being a RL supremacist, you would know that RU is very position specific and rarely is anyone ever played out of position, as is rife in RL. By the time a player (especially forwards) reaches NRL standard, you'll be hard pressed to find a position for him in union.

As good as SBW was in union, he lacked the kicking skills to be a world class outside centre or to take gamble on in a rwc final. But he'd be a walk-in start for any international league side.

Oh yeah, position specific. So position specific that SBW was playing wing for the All Blacks with relatively no experience there

And not sure who talked about SBW wasn't good enough to play in the centres for the All blacks because that's bullshit.

It's funny seeing people spin stuff. SBW scored three tries off the bench - a world cup record in itself - in a foreign position. He also put in several MOM performances for the ABs. This despite many clueless rugby union fascists not wanting him anywhere near the team, even though he was tearing it up in rugby from the get go.

I don't think it's fair to look at the All Blacks and judge someones ability/success on whether they were able to grab a spot, anyhow. The All Black selectors have a knack for picking old men who've been there and done it for no other reason than that they are old men who've been there and done it. Did anyone really expect Dagg to get a run in the WC? I was half expecting Muliaini to be picked again, walking stick and all :sarcasm:

Ps. SBW not being able to force his way in at centre in the WC doesn't mean anything other than than Smith and Nonu have a f**king ancient partnership, how many games together for the canes and All Blacks?

Pretty much every NRL player in the world could WALK into a rugby team and half of them would be capped internationally within 2 years. Is there a professional league player who's switched codes and hasn't made it professionally?

You union folk don't half talk some shit, reckoning that nobody knows your game enough to call you on your absolute bullshit. SBW was widely regarded as a world class centre and he would walk into any international rugby team in the world.

 

[royce10]

What does that have to do with the Kangaroos? The discussion he has been focused on how much better the Wallabies would be if there was a united code?

To say "they wouldn't be good because they can't scrum or lineout"...

And you accuse me of being a supremacist. If the likes of Inglis and haybe had of played RU, they'd have learned to play like a RU player.

You're arguing a point I wasn't trying to make.

Springs suggested that players from the current Kangaroo squad (with their current skillsets, I imagine) could waltz into the Wallabies team and dominate world rugby. There was no talk of a 'united code'. Just a simple hypothetical.

So with their current skillsets how do they compete at the lineout and scrum?

Rogers, Tuiqri, Sailor and Farrell were all better players at RL than Jason Robinson, yet JR became the better of all of them at RU. What it says is certain players have differing ceilings.

What this relates to at this topic, is that no where in the world of RU does anyone have the ceiling of Hayne or Inglis.

We've see the RUWC down here twice in the last 10 years.

There is more talent in the NRL than there is in the entire world of RU. Teams like Argentina and Ireland, with absolutely pedestrian centre partnerships win games, Arg coming top 4 in 2007. The Wallabies with an eternally pissweak forward pack are another.

That is why NZ can beat them all the time, not because the All Blacks have world leading talent to classify them the 'most dominant team in the world', but because every other team in the world is devoid of talent.

Thats true. I totally agree that the attacking prowess of RL's elite is unmatched by RU. The amount of moving space in RL no doubt helps in evolving running games to the likes of Inglis and Hayne. We could also argue that RU players could transition successfully to RL if they switched young and were exposed to free running footy.

The All Blacks would probably still be the dominant force if the codes were to unite worldwide as the ARU would just dumb down their talent.

 

[royce10]

Oh yeah, position specific. So position specific that SBW was playing wing for the All Blacks with relatively no experience there

And not sure who talked about SBW wasn't good enough to play in the centres for the All blacks because that's bullshit.

It's funny seeing people spin stuff. SBW scored three tries off the bench - a world cup record in itself - in a foreign position. He also put in several MOM performances for the ABs. This despite many clueless rugby union fascists not wanting him anywhere near the team, even though he was tearing it up in rugby from the get go.

I don't think it's fair to look at the All Blacks and judge someones ability/success on whether they were able to grab a spot, anyhow. The All Black selectors have a knack for picking old men who've been there and done it for no other reason than that they are old men who've been there and done it. Did anyone really expect Dagg to get a run in the WC? I was half expecting Muliaini to be picked again, walking stick and all :sarcasm:

Ps. SBW not being able to force his way in at centre in the WC doesn't mean anything other than than Smith and Nonu have a f**king ancient partnership, how many games together for the canes and All Blacks?

Pretty much every NRL player in the world could WALK into a rugby team and half of them would be capped internationally within 2 years. Is there a professional league player who's switched codes and hasn't made it professionally?

You union folk don't half talk some shit, reckoning that nobody knows your game enough to call you on your absolute bullshit. SBW was widely regarded as a world class centre and he would walk into any international rugby team in the world.

Oh no you didn't!!!

 

[ltd2001]

Oh yeah, position specific. So position specific that SBW was playing wing for the All Blacks with relatively no experience there

And not sure who talked about SBW wasn't good enough to play in the centres for the All blacks because that's bullshit.

It's funny seeing people spin stuff. SBW scored three tries off the bench - a world cup record in itself - in a foreign position. He also put in several MOM performances for the ABs. This despite many clueless rugby union fascists not wanting him anywhere near the team, even though he was tearing it up in rugby from the get go.

I don't think it's fair to look at the All Blacks and judge someones ability/success on whether they were able to grab a spot, anyhow. The All Black selectors have a knack for picking old men who've been there and done it for no other reason than that they are old men who've been there and done it. Did anyone really expect Dagg to get a run in the WC? I was half expecting Muliaini to be picked again, walking stick and all :sarcasm:

Ps. SBW not being able to force his way in at centre in the WC doesn't mean anything other than than Smith and Nonu have a f**king ancient partnership, how many games together for the canes and All Blacks?

Pretty much every NRL player in the world could WALK into a rugby team and half of them would be capped internationally within 2 years. Is there a professional league player who's switched codes and hasn't made it professionally?

You union folk don't half talk some shit, reckoning that nobody knows your game enough to call you on your absolute bullshit. SBW was widely regarded as a world class centre and he would walk into any international rugby team in the world.

You can spin it how you want but fact is end of the day sbw wasn't needed for the abs in the rwc,he would of walked into any rugby team in the world but still wasn't considered good engouh to be on the starting line for abs,its simple no ones talking shit its a fact,he would walk into any league team in the world too.if he was an assiue he would be on the starting team for the final this w.e.Why league folks always talk shit about league players being so much better lol.Brent tate would make a shit centre in union,he is shit and still walks into a kangaroos and queensland jersey every year:crazy:.

 

[Masoe_eats_babies]

You can spin it how you want but fact is end of the day sbw wasn't needed for the abs in the rwc,he would of walked into any rugby team in the world but still wasn't considered good engouh to be on the starting line for abs,its simple no ones talking shit its a fact,he would walk into any league team in the world too.if he was an assiue he would be on the starting team for the final this w.e.Why league folks always talk shit about league players being so much better lol.Brent tate would make a shit centre in union,he is shit and still walks into a kangaroos and queensland jersey every year:crazy:.

That's like saying Greg Inglis isn't considered good enough for the Kangaroos or Queensland because it's wiser to play Slater at fullback and GI in the centres.

Smith and Nonu have a record breaking centre partnership. And given the All Blacks conservative selection policy it's no surprise SBW was thought of as more useful coming off the bench onto the wing.

Only a union troll could make out that a league convert playing out of position on the wing for the world's greatest rugby team is a strike against him. He brings that much to the team that they'll give him a bench spot to play a few minutes on the wing :sarcasm:

And of course he'd walk into any league team in the world, he's a league player....

 

[Rod]

SBW's place in union is somewhere in the middle of what the opposing parties are saying. He was definitely good enough to make the AB's. He had been carving it up in the lower grades for a considerable period before being picked, and it's true that some anti-SBW union traditionalists didn't want him in the team citing that he didn't deserve it and was only in there because of his name. But he was definitely deserving of his selection.

However he didn't deserve to dislodge one of the better centre pairings in world rugby in Nonu and Smith who for 5 years have been the benchmark for rugby centres. SBW played very good but probably not brilliant rugby in the AB's jersey and I think the AB's coaches handled him in the correct manner in line with his performances and talent. I don't think his time in union favours either the pro-union or pro-league side of the debate. He was a freakish talent good enough to make the best union side in the world but probably didn't have enough time to make the impact in that team that his potential suggested.

 

[innerwestrabbit]

SBW's place in union is somewhere in the middle of what the opposing parties are saying. He was definitely good enough to make the AB's. He had been carving it up in the lower grades for a considerable period before being picked, and it's true that some anti-SBW union traditionalists didn't want him in the team citing that he didn't deserve it and was only in there because of his name. But he was definitely deserving of his selection.

However he didn't deserve to dislodge one of the better centre pairings in world rugby in Nonu and Smith who for 5 years have been the benchmark for rugby centres. SBW played very good but probably not brilliant rugby in the AB's jersey and I think the AB's coaches handled him in the correct manner in line with his performances and talent. I don't think his time in union favours either the pro-union or pro-league side of the debate. He was a freakish talent good enough to make the best union side in the world but probably didn't have enough time to make the impact in that team that his potential suggested.

I think SBW was the best 12 in his last year of rugby for the All Blacks.. He was not in 2011 for the WC though. You only need to look at how he players like Read offload the ball now, you can see how other teams do it as well.SBW had a massive impact in union. I Agree the Ab's as a team are the best of both rugby codes, but if league had as big a international program and spent as much time together, I think the kangaroos would be hard to beat.

 

[LJC]

You can spin it how you want but fact is end of the day sbw wasn't needed for the abs in the rwc,he would of walked into any rugby team in the world but still wasn't considered good engouh to be on the starting line for abs,its simple no ones talking shit its a fact,he would walk into any league team in the world too.if he was an assiue he would be on the starting team for the final this w.e.Why league folks always talk shit about league players being so much better lol.Brent tate would make a shit centre in union,he is shit and still walks into a kangaroos and queensland jersey every year:crazy:.

Rugby league players are consistently better tacklers and runners of the ball overall. They are supreme footballers purely because they have to tackle more and therefore they run more with the ball. Simple as that! Do the tackle counts and compare both codes and you will see a massive difference in the number of tackles and runs with RL far outperforming RU! The "on ball" skills of a rugby league player are far more refined and potent than any cumbersome and ill directed effort seen in most RU games!

Players like Conrad Hurrell whom are naturally gifted and smart have chosen to play RL despite a RU upbringing as they know that RL allows them to play their physical based game in bucket loads not occasionally as in union!

 

[shiznit]

I think SBW was the best 12 in his last year of rugby for the All Blacks.. He was not in 2011 for the WC though. You only need to look at how he players like Read offload the ball now, you can see how other teams do it as well.SBW had a massive impact in union. I Agree the Ab's as a team are the best of both rugby codes, but if league had as big a international program and spent as much time together, I think the kangaroos would be hard to beat.

:lol:

How funny is it that we see a bunch of Aussies trying to tell us which NZ team is better...

How this is even a debate astounds me...

We have the All Blacks... Who are red hot favourites to win the best sports team award at the Laurels World Sports Awards... Up against the likes of Bayern Munich and the Miami Heat.

They are on a different stratosphere to the Kiwis and the NSW/QLD invitational rugby league team.

But that is what it is... And that won't change in the next 100 years.... The sooner you queensland fan boys pull the bananas out of your arse and get used to it... The sooner you can lose that chip on your shoulder.

 

[Tone83]

SBW wouldn't have walked into the centres for Australia or QLD, until possibly very recently when we're (the kangas) suddenly suffering out wide due to a lot of contributing factors (hodges injured and suddenly old, folau left, Will hoppa went to be a mormon, yow yeh broke his leg in half, ferguson and duges went insane, etc etc etc).
Hodges and Inglis had the centre pairing more locked than Nonu and Smith had the AB centre pairing, there's no way it would have been split up for sbw wandering in (remembering this is a hypothetical where sbw is eligible for aus and can't play as a forward).

He would have been picked as a forward on any team in league and not for the all blacks, but that's because his natural position is edge forward in league, and I do understand that forwards in rugby have a fairly specialised position totally different from forwards in league (I did play as a forward in union for 15 years btw, those saying I know nothing about the code lol).
So yeah the fact SBW could get on the all blacks at all, with Thorn lol, doesn't bode well for the all blacks claim to be the best sporting team in the world. They don't even have SBW's position, or Thorns, but they moseyed in like royalty. Sbw fair enough is a stand out freak in the nrl, but thorn is a joke.

You can switch it around and ask what would happen if JT, Inglis, Hayne, Slater and co were eligible for the all blacks? Established pairings be damned, they'd kick the doors down, and who knows how many more league players would, no one could have guessed thorn, but it happened, so who knows, Keith Galloway and Dean Young might kick the doors down. I'm struggling to think of any other players as shit as thorn.

It seems if you've played league at all you're good enough to be an international rugby player. If you're half decent at league you immediately become a star international rugby player. Folau is turning into the Lebron of union as we speak(playing on the cavs, but yeah), when he was never the best on an NRL club team, let alone the best in the NRL.

 

[Dav0c]

You can switch it around and ask what would happen if JT, Inglis, Hayne, Slater and co were eligible for the all blacks?

Who would they replace?

 

[hutch]

Who would they replace?

Whoever plays in their positions.

 

[Usain Bolt]

whoever plays in their positions.

lol

 

[shiznit]

SBW wouldn't have walked into the centres for Australia or QLD, until possibly very recently when we're (the kangas) suddenly suffering out wide due to a lot of contributing factors (hodges injured and suddenly old, folau left, Will hoppa went to be a mormon, yow yeh broke his leg in half, ferguson and duges went insane, etc etc etc).
Hodges and Inglis had the centre pairing more locked than Nonu and Smith had the AB centre pairing, there's no way it would have been split up for sbw wandering in (remembering this is a hypothetical where sbw is eligible for aus and can't play as a forward).

He would have been picked as a forward on any team in league and not for the all blacks, but that's because his natural position is edge forward in league, and I do understand that forwards in rugby have a fairly specialised position totally different from forwards in league (I did play as a forward in union for 15 years btw, those saying I know nothing about the code lol).
So yeah the fact SBW could get on the all blacks at all, with Thorn lol, doesn't bode well for the all blacks claim to be the best sporting team in the world. They don't even have SBW's position, or Thorns, but they moseyed in like royalty. Sbw fair enough is a stand out freak in the nrl, but thorn is a joke.

You can switch it around and ask what would happen if JT, Inglis, Hayne, Slater and co were eligible for the all blacks? Established pairings be damned, they'd kick the doors down, and who knows how many more league players would, no one could have guessed thorn, but it happened, so who knows, Keith Galloway and Dean Young might kick the doors down. I'm struggling to think of any other players as shit as thorn.

It seems if you've played league at all you're good enough to be an international rugby player. If you're half decent at league you immediately become a star international rugby player. Folau is turning into the Lebron of union as we speak(playing on the cavs, but yeah), when he was never the best on an NRL club team, let alone the best in the NRL.

Yeah... Blah, Blah, Blah... Whatever...

Then in the real world...

All Blacks > Kangaroos

All Blacks > Queensland

All Blacks > You

 

[ed612313]

You ndo realise SBW got players player in both his Super 15 and NZWC squads dont you???

 

[Springs]

Kangaroos > All Blacks

 

[papabear]

The Kangaroos are so, so much more dominant then the all blacks it isnt funny.

Kangaroos >>> >>>>> >>> > >>>>> all blacks

 

[shiznit]

You ndo realise SBW got players player in both his Super 15 and NZWC squads dont you???

The rugby league World Cup maybe...

The only thing he got from the rugby union World Cup were splinters in his arse from sitting on the bench...

 

[shiznit]

The Kangaroos are so, so much more dominant then the all blacks it isnt funny.

Kangaroos >>> >>>>> >>> > >>>>> all blacks