Does Canberra have any money?

[Bring back John Fifita]

corperate sponsorship is at an all time high according to the marketing man at our club,

The company I work for is one. We regularly have corporate events at the games. However I can assure you that it has always been disappointing to see that only 50-60% of the corporate boxes have actaully been occupied at the games I've been to over the last two years.

I have actually just booked two for Round 5.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

BTW - Just been on the phone and its just been confirmed that The Raiders v Roosters Clash in Round 5 has been switched to Monday Night. Do not know the reason.

Mods - don't have a written source yet - but this came from Raiders marketing whom I deal with in bookign corporate suites.

 

[Raider_69]

Not that i doubt you BBJF, but ill await confirmation, as canberra said they would not accept that switch and as a season ticket holder from sydney i was pleased with that, each monday night game we get, devalues my season ticket as its nigh on impossible for me to make the game without missing work on either monday or the tuesday

 

[Where Eagles Dare]

This policy of signing developing players on higher-paying contracts is a bit of a gamble in my opinion. Sure it's the more 'honourable' thing to do rather than going out and buying superstars that other clubs have poured their heart and soul into. But if, as has been said, the Raiders are spending up to the cap, I think a lot of their roster would be overpaid. If this is the case, it would seem unlikely that any of their 'potential star players' will want to go elsewhere UNLESS they reach this potential. If not they will stay in Canberra on their overpriced pay packet, with the coaching staff waiting and waiting for them to turn into a Greg Inglis. Thus the Canberra side will remain largely the same, with no marquee players coming in, and risk losing their developed stars to other clubs if they reach their potential.

 

[Lime_Green]

Players developed include Todd Payten, Brent Kite, Brett Finch, & Michael Monaghan - but none are currently at the Raiders. And a string of talented players (juniors or otherwise) have left the Raiders club in the last two years. Its a big concern. Why is this happening??

You do raise a good point there. It's no good focusing a club on quality juniors only to have them leave after a few years, just as they reach maturity.

It does sadden me that unlike some teams the Raiders really haven't managed to hang onto their junior talent lately.

On saying that we do have our current batch on quite long term contracts and there's a general feeling that we are building a new look side and that the players want to stick together to be part of that.

Todd Carney, for example, has bought a house locally and has repeatedly said he wants to be a one club man.

Hopefully it's the start of a new era for the Green Machine.

 

[greenhat]

BBJF, you'll be pleased to hear that Michael Dobson is from Junee and is writing a weekly article in the Wagga Daily Advertiser this year.
If he fulfils his potential and becomes the Raiders regular number 7 that will be great for RL in Wagga. If the Raiders are successful while hes at 7, or if he becomes a star in his own right, it will do wonders for the whole region I reckon.

Also Adrian Purtell is from Albury so hopefully he can raise RL a bit down in border town.

 

[Raider_69]

alot of these lads are canberra boys through and through, for their own reasons
id be willing to bet so long as canberra are keen on them, william zillman, todd carney, thom learoyd lahrs, michael dobson michael weyman, alan tongue, joe picker, dane tilse, neville costigan, will not cut and run on the raiders.

TLL, Weyman, Tongue, Zillman and Carney i am certain of

 

[greenhat]

I dunno about that
A friend of mine lives in Brisbane and every time shes in Canberra she tells me that shes gonna marry Mr Zillman and bring him home.
Shes never actually met him, but she seems pretty confident.

 

[Christmas Ape]

I think they should change this. Hark back to their glory days of the late 80's/early 90's - they were a glamour club with imported talent to burn.

Meninga, Belcher, Lazarus, Todd, The Walters Bros, Ferguson, Wiki, Lomax, Nadruku, Nagas to name a few. While some of these only became "star" players after joining Canberra, it just shows how well they spotted talent.

None of those players were superstars when the Raiders picked them up. Not in the current interpretation of the word anyway.

As for producing great juniors, indeed Canberra has manufactured many successful NRL stars. I remember when Erindale College in the ACT was one of Australia's finest backyards for Junior football. Players developed include Todd Payten, Brent Kite, Brett Finch, & Michael Monaghan - but none are currently at the Raiders.

I reckon if you asked any Raiders supporter if they wanted any of those blokes back at the club now, you'd find that Kite would be the only one and even that's dubious given the current roster of front rowers.
The rest were either surplus to their needs (Payten & Monaghan) or flat out despised (Finch).
That's not exactly a glittering list of departed talent.

And a string of talented players (juniors or otherwise) have left the Raiders club in the last two years.Its a big concern. Why is this happening??

Players leave clubs all the time. Why are you singling out the Raiders?

We've all heard about Bush footy struggling for money, Canberra's junior clubs are no exception here. On a recent visit to Wagga, I was saddened to hear that all the talk was Union & AFL, League doesn't seem to have much presence on the radar.

Wagga's always been a touch-and-go situation between League and AFL. If you looked further north you'd find that towns like Parkes, Forbes, Young, Cootamundra, Cowra and all towns in between are still league dominated and some have recently struck junior development deals with Canberra.
Again, why are you singling out the Raiders? What about Sydney clubs with no junior breeding grounds at all?

I don't like to be a doomsdayer like some, but all of the factors above don't exactly add up to a bright future for the club. As far as the Raiders are concerned, I believe that merely concentrating on junior development to provide their roster is not the formula for success - on the paddock & financially.

But that's the way they've always done things. 25 years down the track, there's 3 premierships in the cabinet and an impressive top 8 strike rate. That's a hell of a lot more than I can say about some Sydney clubs.

3-4 big name, reputable players in key positions should be a minimum purchase.

Like who?

Big name players will also bring bigger crowds.

No they don't.
Winning games brings crowds.

Other talent spotting should also produce some good junior purchases.

What, like the abundance of Junior Kangaroo players in the current squad?

I won't comment on the coaching staff - will wait to see how Neil Henry fares, but this area is also paramount.

A good coach is very important, you're right. That's why Elliott's gone.
5 year plan my arse.

While I follow a different side, in no way do I enjoy another teams demise like this. I hope it all turns around. I'd love to see them return to the glory days as a League Powerhouse (as long as they let the Dragons sneak in a comp or two).

And therein lies the crux of the matter.
The Raiders aren't in a state of decline. They don't need to be turned around. They just quietly go about their business whilst being ignored by all and sundry except those who bother to read between the lines of the bullsh*t Sydney 'newspaper' articles.

Go you Raiders.

 

[Raider_69]

great post Christmas Ape

 

[Lime_Green]

And therein lies the crux of the matter.
The Raiders aren't in a state of decline. They don't need to be turned around. They just quietly go about their business whilst being ignored by all and sundry except those who bother to read between the lines of the bullsh*t Sydney 'newspaper' articles.

Go you Raiders.

Well said.

Don Furner was reported as saying on the radio yesterday that financially the Raiders have never been more secure.

"The Raiders are broke" is inaccurate rubbish made up by Gould and co (who may or may not have an agenda to get the Raiders moved to the Central Coast).

 

[VictorTheViking]

Well said christmas!

 

[nqboy]

None of those players were superstars when the Raiders picked them up. Not in the current interpretation of the word anyway.

Meninga? Not a superstar? Qld and Australian centre, kicked the tired old arses of past masters like Cronin and Rogers whenever he met them in Origin but not a superstar? Oh, yeah, he wasn't playing in the Sydney comp...I forgot.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

None of those players were superstars when the Raiders picked them up. Not in the current interpretation of the word anyway.

Think you missed the point of this - They were quality players - many established - from OUTSIDE the club (ie not juniors). Their recruitment policy was second to none back then - success ensued. I would also say that Meninga WAS a star player before the Raiders, but this is a matter of opinion.

I reckon if you asked any Raiders supporter if they wanted any of those blokes back at the club now, you'd find that Kite would be the only one and even that's dubious given the current roster of front rowers.
The rest were either surplus to their needs (Payten & Monaghan) or flat out despised (Finch).
That's not exactly a glittering list of departed talent.

I was quoting these as examples of your (ie Raiders) junior players no longer there. (2 of which have made SOO representative football since their departure). I too wouldn't say this is "glittering", but I ask where indeed is the glitter??? Is it coming?? If you are relying purley on junior talent, then I hope for your sake it is.

Players leave clubs all the time. Why are you singling out the Raiders?

Nothing of the sort. This is a Raiders thread so I've commented on the Raiders. Indeed the Dragons lose more junior talent than many other clubs - and I have stated before that I think we need to recruit some quality players into our club. While are junior talent is seemingly vast - there is still over 1000% more players outside our junior region to choose from. Merely picking veges from your own back yard won't give you the best market.

Wagga's always been a touch-and-go situation between League and AFL. If you looked further north you'd find that towns like Parkes, Forbes, Young, Cootamundra, Cowra and all towns in between are still league dominated and some have recently struck junior development deals with Canberra.
Again, why are you singling out the Raiders? What about Sydney clubs with no junior breeding grounds at all?

Not just League & AFL - Union as well. This comment was in relation to the well publicised financial problems with bush league clubs, many of which have folded in recent times. Canberra's juniors include vast area of rural NSW. As such its a big concern for the future. You're the closest club to the Victorian border & we all know what the Cash-a-Plenty AFL heirarchy are up too.

Singling out the Raiders??? Again this is a Raiders Thread. City Junior clubs have different issues to those of the bush.

But that's the way they've always done things. 25 years down the track, there's 3 premierships in the cabinet and an impressive top 8 strike rate. That's a hell of a lot more than I can say about some Sydney clubs.

Heh? Go back to my original post. While you had junior talent - it also was through successful recruitment of players that you developed arguably the best side of the 90's. 3 comps. The Raiders became a glamour club - a club that drew big crowds, and lured further player talent to itself.

Hell of a lot more than some Sydney Clubs? Agreed. But so what?

If you were offered a similar level of success to these sides of the 80's/90's would you take it??? I assume yes, and so would it not stand to reason that a similar formula for success be taken? I think its a reasonable suggestion.

Relying Solely on your junior base will not do this. No club has ever proven it can work other than perhaps the Broncos - with the majority of Queensland to hand-pick from.

Like who?

Whatever there is available that can compliment, and improve your side. Are the Raiders at maximum strength in all departments??? Got any weaknesses???

If so, you can either wait around for a while & see who pops up from your juniors in time to come, or target a player who's already proven. Its a strategy.

No they don't.
Winning games brings crowds.

You made the eight last year against, with a good home ground win/loss record. What were your average crowds?

A blockbuster crowd attended your last home game against the Storm. Why? Would it be that players such as Jason Croker were having their last home game in the Mighty Green??

Winning games does bring crowds, but crowd-pleasing players do too. And no, before you think I'm "singling out" the raiders again - you're not alone.

What, like the abundance of Junior Kangaroo players in the current squad?

You've historically had a good presence of Juniors in the Kangaroo squad. How many have you either (a) retained or (b) kept with success at the Raiders?

A good coach is very important, you're right. That's why Elliott's gone.
5 year plan my arse.

Penrith seem to like him. But anyway, good Luck to Neil Henry.

And therein lies the crux of the matter.
The Raiders aren't in a state of decline. They don't need to be turned around. They just quietly go about their business whilst being ignored by all and sundry except those who bother to read between the lines of the bullsh*t Sydney 'newspaper' articles.

Go you Raiders.

I think you missed the point of my entire initial post. I get the impression you think I'm just outright slating the raiders - couldn't be more wrong. It was on the back of the comment that you don't sign star players, but are now concentrating on juniors.

Never argued you were financially shaky. Its now how you spend your money wisely. As you said, you've won the comp 3 times. Will this current "junior recruitment" policy bring similar success?

Time will tell.

 

[dubby]

In all due respect BBJF, Mal Meninga was the only "superstar" of the group you mentioned.
The rest were mere club players (except Nadruku; the Fijian captain!) who were recruited wisely by Mr Sheens.

Our junior development has paid bigger dividends for us in the past than big name signings.

Rua/Drew/Hindmarsh/Tyran Smith vs Daley/Mullins/Furner/Croker/Woolford.

I know what I'd rather have.

 

[anjado]

Meninga was definetly a huge Star when the Raiders signed him he was a seasoned Queeensland and Australian player. Who played in the 82 kangeroo team.

I actually think the Raiders Recruitment over the past few years has been quite good. Tom Leroyd-Larhs, Neville Costigan, Dane Tilse.
Are all young players who are considered potential stars of the future.

So there signings haven't been too bad there biggest problem has been to keep there star players. If they can keep hold of these players they should have a good future.

I do think they lack a really big name player though. If they could get a big star like once every 3-5 years. Which i believe is achievable then they could go a long way to being up in the top 4 every season.

 

[donkey|rope]

I agree with pretty much everything the Raiders fans have said through out this thread, but I'd like to sort of make a point about the underlying issue here; the system is skewed disproportionately against clubs. I think we can all agree that it is imperative for every single NRL franchise to develop their own talent, but I think it’s just as important that there be a level playing field for those choosing to buy it.

The point of the salary cap is to ensure that the competition remains close and that there is a level of equality in opportunity. But how can there be equality in opportunity when environmental, social and historical factors dictate the flow of talent? How can there be equality in opportunity when the franchises in the most commercial dense locales can crowd out others by supplementing salaries through third party contracts? Simply put, there isn’t.

My solution is that the NRL facilitate inter-club trading of players and their contracts. It would solve many of these issues while upholding the integrity of the salary cap while supporting additional financial opportunities for both players and clubs. Obviously player well-fare needs to be taken into account, but I think the NRL, clubs and Players Association can come up with a framework to support trade in an equitable manner.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

In all due respect BBJF, Mal Meninga was the only "superstar" of the group you mentioned.
The rest were mere club players (except Nadruku; the Fijian captain!) who were recruited wisely by Mr Sheens.

- That is my point exactly!

"recruited wisely" - 100% bang-on.

"Mr Sheens" - great coach, again an essential component of success. Not saying that Neil Henry wont be - only the future will decide that.

Our junior development has paid bigger dividends for us in the past than big name signings.

Rua/Drew/Hindmarsh/Tyran Smith vs Daley/Mullins/Furner/Croker/Woolford.

I know what I'd rather have.

dunno if "big name" suits this list of players. Drew had one great year at Parra, the rest were all pretty middle-of-the-road toilers, solid at best.

 

[mongoose]

what marquee players have melbourne bought over the last few years?, crocker.....

Slater, King, cronk, smith, johnson, kafusi, inglis were nobodies before they joined the storm. Even there established players like Hill and geyer were nobodies before they joined the storm.

So why does canberra's future rely on buying some big name players?

 

[greenhat]

what marquee players have melbourne bought over the last few years?, crocker.....

Slater, King, cronk, smith, johnson, kafusi, inglis were nobodies before they joined the storm. Even there established players like Hill and geyer were nobodies before they joined the storm.

So why does canberra's future rely on buying some big name players?

It doesn't. You're just arguing against guys who support Sydney clubs, so they see big name players as crucial.
I don't see any cowboys, storm, or even broncos or newcastle supporters arguing against the Raiders' policies in here.