Dragons girls are into the grand final

[Carlton]

I love it when people try and guess the point of a line of questioning..

Even more so when they get it wrong..

The point I’m making is that to encourage kids to get involved, it’s not just about having them play..

They need heroes they can look up to.. That they can idolise being one day..

Girls need that just as much as boys do..

And I love it when you get the whole point wrong. Do you really think its about girls vs boys.

Its about artificially manufacturing a so called elite competition that uses resources that the mainstay of the sport needs. 4 teams for a 4 game competition and then state of origins and tests for the exact same players just shuffled around.

I have coached girls in oztag and netball, I have coached and played in mixed oztag teams. When there is sufficient participation at a grass roots level an elite competition will evolve naturally.

My argument is with how the NRL is providing an elite womens comp, and not providing the same help to areas of the sport that need it, not with an elite womens comp in itself.

To get kids to play they dont necessarily need heroes. I'll go back to Oztag as an example, there are probably more kids playing oztag now than league and there are no "heroes". All they are doing is participating and having fun.

 

[muzby]

And I love it when you get the whole point wrong. Do you really think its about girls vs boys.

Your argument is a case of jealousy over the girls funding. Pretty much that your whole post trying to say that it’s not actually proves the point..

Allow me to show you:

Its about artificially manufacturing a so called elite competition that uses resources that the mainstay of the sport needs. 4 teams for a 4 game competition and then state of origins and tests for the exact same players just shuffled around.

So if the players in the NRLW aren’t the elite female rugby league players, who is?

And not sure how their comp is using resources that grass roots footy may want. Are they stealing their TV slots or something?

I have coached girls in oztag and netball, I have coached and played in mixed oztag teams. When there is sufficient participation at a grass roots level an elite competition will evolve naturally.

Aka: “See, I’m not being misogynistic - I throw balls to girls too”

My argument is with how the NRL is providing an elite womens comp, and not providing the same help to areas of the sport that need it, not with an elite womens comp in itself.

So.. You’re annoyed that women get the funding instead of men.. Your argument is against the elite womens comp.. As I said..

To get kids to play they dont necessarily need heroes. I'll go back to Oztag as an example, there are probably more kids playing oztag now than league and there are no "heroes". All they are doing is participating and having fun.

You really should stop using Oztag as an example.. Most of those boys and girls running around would be imagining themselves as a league players..

Elite league players..

 

[Carlton]

Your argument is a case of jealousy over the girls funding. Pretty much that your whole post trying to say that it’s not actually proves the point..

Allow me to show you:


So if the players in the NRLW aren’t the elite female rugby league players, who is?

And not sure how their comp is using resources that grass roots footy may want. Are they stealing their TV slots or something?


Aka: “See, I’m not being misogynistic - I throw balls to girls too”


So.. You’re annoyed that women get the funding instead of men.. Your argument is against the elite womens comp.. As I said..


You really should stop using Oztag as an example.. Most of those boys and girls running around would be imagining themselves as a league players..

Elite league players..

You really are the village idiot,

Oztag is a very apt example to use, most of the people playing do not see themselves as League players.

Dont throw in the nonsense about misogynistic and try to turn this into a sexism issue. I support and have contributed to girls/women playing sport and especially love that there can be mixed sports where both sexes can compete in the one game.

What I am annoyed about is that a competition has been created for four teams to play four games including being the leadup game to the Grand Final. If this had been an over 40's comp for men I would be saying exactly the same things.

And yes it does use up resources and time slots, it was reported that the 4 game comp costs each of the clubs in excess of $400K last year. This doesn't include the money that the NRL are putting into it, so what we are talking about is a 4 game comp that is costing millions.

I think this could have been better used supporting the contracting player base they already have. If you dont agree with that, thats up to you, but stop trying to twist the message.

 

[muzby]

You really are the village idiot,

No need to start throwing insults, we’re discussing an opposing viewpoint here..

Oztag is a very apt example to use, most of the people playing do not see themselves as League players.

You do realise that OzTag is seen as a pathways sport to league?

Not to mention the number of ex-league players who play the sport once their bodies can’t endure the full contact nature of league..

Dont throw in the nonsense about misogynistic and try to turn this into a sexism issue. I support and have contributed to girls/women playing sport and especially love that there can be mixed sports where both sexes can compete in the one game.

So it’s good when guys can play too, just don’t let the elite women have their own comp.

You’re digging that hole even deeper..

What I am annoyed about is that a competition has been created for four teams to play four games including being the leadup game to the Grand Final. If this had been an over 40's comp for men I would be saying exactly the same things.

So how would you like the women’s first grade comp to first start up?

Interestingly enough back in 1908 we had a manufactured comp of 8 teams of men... And at one point the RL grand final was supposed to be a curtain raiser for the Union..

Look where it is today. Everything has to start somewhere..

And the over 40’s excuse is ridiculous. We’re talking about the top level of competition competing on grand final day.. Not a comp limited by age, fitness or skill.

A better game to dispose of would be the interstate cup. That’s a manufactured game.

And yes it does use up resources and time slots, it was reported that the 4 game comp costs each of the clubs in excess of $400K last year. This doesn't include the money that the NRL are putting into it, so what we are talking about is a 4 game comp that is costing millions.

So it cost us the same as Euan Aitken’s salary last year? I know which $400k we got a better return from.

$400k in the grand scheme of operations for a club is not all that much.. Particularly when it is investing to grow the game.

I think this could have been better used supporting the contracting player base they already have. If you dont agree with that, thats up to you, but stop trying to twist the message.

Hang on a sec, I thought you wanted the cash for grassroots footy? Now you want to support the contracted players?

I’m not the one twisting a message..

 

[Willow]

The NRL has forgotten where it comes from and thats the problem.

Let me first say that the NRL has forgotten its working class roots. It's a big money game now where the top players in the mens game earn more than players of the past could have imagined.

The womens game does not enjoy that level of money. The women in the NRLW play for a pittance.

Maddie Studdon's story is typical, she worked as a stevedore on the wharves. Her love for Rugby League was so great that she had to choose between her job as a wharfie or going full time as a player. She chose the latter despite knowing that she'd be doing it tough financially. Working class roots, playing for bugger all money... all just for the love of the game. Tell me that's not the true spirit of Rugby League and its origins.

Quite frankly, I'd like her and players like her get more $$$, but of course this will only come with greater sponsorship.

They think that if you concentrate on the elite the grass roots will follow and look after itself.

The NRL should provide (more) funding for grass root RL, I agree. To be fair, it's not like the NRL doesn't provide any funding or resources.

You raise the point that the girls wont get good money if they dont have this comp? Well every park footballer has exactly that same issue to deal with

Many park footballers, be it boys or girls, aspire to a higher level of the game.

But not sure what point you're trying to make here. It's shouldn't be a competition between boys and girls as to who gets the chance to move up.

Did you get the chance to watch the Grand Finals of the Koori Knock Out last Monday on NITV? There was the U/17s boys, followed the Womens, followed by the Mens. The commentary repeated a few times how important the Knock Out is because it serves as a pathway to higher levels of the game.

Just as an aside, the Koori KO has been going for 49 years. It actually has its roots in city RL but of course has spread to have teams from rural areas.

AFL did not concentrate on an elite womens competition first, they concentrated on establishing a strong grass roots via kids and schools and promoting the game at park level to increase participation across the board.

With respect, the AFL are not alone when it comes to PR work in schools.

And again, they bought their comp by poaching other sports. Now they are trying to reduce the number of games, and this has upset the players. Lawyers getting involved etc.

Links: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09...teams-despite-aflw-impasse-mclachlan/11519184 and
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10...over-number-of-games-played-a-season/11572554 and
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...ble-as-cba-fails-to-pass-20191006-p52y26.html

Simple case of the AFL trying to expand the comp too quickly.

I think that the game is being treated more and more like just another form of entertainment to the detriment of the game as a sport. Its becoming about people watching and not playing.

Well I disagree completely. Have you been to any of the womens games? I've posted before about the amount of schoolgirls attending NRLW games.

 

[Carlton]

Let me first say that the NRL has forgotten its working class roots. It's a big money game now where the top players in the mens game earn more than players of the past could have imagined.

The womens game does not enjoy that level of money. The women in the NRLW play for a pittance.

Maddie Studdon's story is typical, she worked as a stevedore on the wharves. Her love for Rugby League was so great that she had to choose between her job as a wharfie or going full time as a player. She chose the latter despite knowing that she'd be doing it tough financially. Working class roots, playing for bugger all money... all just for the love of the game. Tell me that's not the true spirit of Rugby League and its origins.

Quite frankly, I'd like her and players like her get more $$$, but of course this will only come with greater sponsorship.
The NRL should provide (more) funding for grass root RL, I agree. To be fair, it's not like the NRL doesn't provide any funding or resources.

Many park footballers, be it boys or girls, aspire to a higher level of the game.

But not sure what point you're trying to make here. It's shouldn't be a competition between boys and girls as to who gets the chance to move up.

Did you get the chance to watch the Grand Finals of the Koori Knock Out last Monday on NITV? There was the U/17s boys, followed the Womens, followed by the Mens. The commentary repeated a few times how important the Knock Out is because it serves as a pathway to higher levels of the game.

Just as an aside, the Koori KO has been going for 49 years. It actually has its roots in city RL but of course has spread to have teams from rural areas.
With respect, the AFL are not alone when it comes to PR work in schools.

And again, they bought their comp by poaching other sports. Now they are trying to reduce the number of games, and this has upset the players. Lawyers getting involved etc.

Links: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09...teams-despite-aflw-impasse-mclachlan/11519184 and
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10...over-number-of-games-played-a-season/11572554 and
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...ble-as-cba-fails-to-pass-20191006-p52y26.html

Simple case of the AFL trying to expand the comp too quickly.
Well I disagree completely. Have you been to any of the womens games? I've posted before about the amount of schoolgirls attending NRLW games.

The Koori cup is a great example of a grass roots initiative and the girls and juniors playing in the same comp along with the open men is fantastic.

Dont throw in the line about boys and girls and who should get the help. My point is that we have falling numbers of boys playing the game of which there are thousands and instead of trying to manufacture a new market , the current one that is struggling needs to be fixed. We are not talking about a small amount of money being used on the elite womens competition. All up we are talking in the millions per year.

Of course the girls would like more money just like every player would like more money. But if the grass roots isnt protected then eventually there isnt any money for anyone. The problem is the sport/participation is being taken out of the equation and replaced with entertainment/watching. People that are players will probably watch, people that are primarily watchers will more than likely not be playing.

Muzby disregards Oztag, yet it is growing in numbers, ages and localities. Most people playing Oztag do not think of themselves as league players or want to be league players, they think of themselves as Oztaggers. Oztag has a lot of problems but one thing it has gotten right is that the numbers participating are the key to success and then more elite competitions can be built on the back of this.

 

[muzby]

Where do I disregard OzTag?

I merely said you need to pick a different sport for your example of a game flourishing at grassroots without an elite comp at the top..

OzTag is an offshoot of rugby league - much the same as Auskick is an offshoot of AFL.

 

[Carlton]

Where do I disregard OzTag?

I merely said you need to pick a different sport for your example of a game flourishing at grassroots without an elite comp at the top..

OzTag is an offshoot of rugby league - much the same as Auskick is an offshoot of AFL.

Oztag is not and never has been owned or controlled by the NRL and why not use it as an example of a sport that is flourishing even though it doesnt have an elite competition but does have strong participation?

 

[muzby]

Oztag is not and never has been owned or controlled by the NRL and why not use it as an example of a sport that is flourishing even though it doesnt have an elite competition but does have strong participation?

Lol..

Oztag was created by a former rugby league player as a low contact method for training other rugby league players...

Aside from the 6 play sets and the fact that the game play is just like league except for the tackling, explain how the game is not an offshoot of league?

 

[Willow]

The Koori cup is a great example of a grass roots initiative and the girls and juniors playing in the same comp along with the open men is fantastic.

Dont throw in the line about boys and girls and who should get the help. My point is that we have falling numbers of boys playing the game of which there are thousands and instead of trying to manufacture a new market , the current one that is struggling needs to be fixed. We are not talking about a small amount of money being used on the elite womens competition. All up we are talking in the millions per year.

Of course the girls would like more money just like every player would like more money. But if the grass roots isnt protected then eventually there isnt any money for anyone. The problem is the sport/participation is being taken out of the equation and replaced with entertainment/watching. People that are players will probably watch, people that are primarily watchers will more than likely not be playing.

Muzby disregards Oztag, yet it is growing in numbers, ages and localities. Most people playing Oztag do not think of themselves as league players or want to be league players, they think of themselves as Oztaggers. Oztag has a lot of problems but one thing it has gotten right is that the numbers participating are the key to success and then more elite competitions can be built on the back of this.

Womens participation in RL appears to be growing.

Female participation is the fastest growing area of Rugby League.

In recent seasons, the NRL has introduced a wide range of female-specific opportunities and pathways ranging from an introduction to the game in primary schools, right through to our world champion Jillaroos at the elite level.

These programs include girls-only League Stars programs, in-school clinics and Come & Try events through to Gala Days and regular competitions. The introduction of the Women's National Championships and NRLW have strengthened to elite pathway for aspiring players to perform at an International level. Additionally, via the Touch transition programs, girls of all ages from a Touch Football background are able to build on the solid skill foundation they have developed and try their hand at the contact form of the game.

https://www.playrugbyleague.com/schools/high-school-programs/female-only/

You didn't answer my question so I'll assume that you haven't been to a NRLW game. I think you should before passing judgment and saying it is entertainment only. If you ever do make it to a standalone match, watch the kids in attendance. The standalone match I went to was a real eye opener.

I think it's pretty silly to ignore the potential market.

 

[Carlton]

Womens participation in RL appears to be growing.

Female participation is the fastest growing area of Rugby League.

In recent seasons, the NRL has introduced a wide range of female-specific opportunities and pathways ranging from an introduction to the game in primary schools, right through to our world champion Jillaroos at the elite level.

These programs include girls-only League Stars programs, in-school clinics and Come & Try events through to Gala Days and regular competitions. The introduction of the Women's National Championships and NRLW have strengthened to elite pathway for aspiring players to perform at an International level. Additionally, via the Touch transition programs, girls of all ages from a Touch Football background are able to build on the solid skill foundation they have developed and try their hand at the contact form of the game.

https://www.playrugbyleague.com/schools/high-school-programs/female-only/

You didn't answer my question so I'll assume that you haven't been to a NRLW game. I think you should before passing judgment and saying it is entertainment only. If you ever do make it to a standalone match, watch the kids in attendance. The standalone match I went to was a real eye opener.

I think it's pretty silly to ignore the potential market.

I am not saying ignore a potential market, I'm saying dont let the one you have decline. Please dont mix up Womens rugby league with my comments about the "Elite" game/s. I am all for developing womens league via grass roots in conjunction with the current grass roots structures. I want more focus and resources put into the grass roots.

The Koori cup we discussed earlier is a great example of grass roots which includes women. Listen to the comments during the tournament, it wasn't about money it was all about community and playing with your mates and family and having family and friends there supporting .It was about participation.

And where did I say I have never seen a womens game? There were spectators but I dont think there must have been as many as the game you attended.

Oztag has a number of differences with rugby league besides just not tackling. Including 8 a side, no scrums, smaller field, limited kicking, no goalkicks, no penalty kicks, no 40/20 etc. It is a different game that is not affiliated with League.

 

[muzby]

Oztag has a number of differences with rugby league besides just not tackling. Including 8 a side, no scrums, smaller field, limited kicking, no goalkicks, no penalty kicks, no 40/20 etc. It is a different game that is not affiliated with League.

Rugby league 7’s / 9’s also has similarities to those criteria..

Oztag is an offshoot of league.. Plain & simple..

 

[Dragonslayer]

I'm curious to hear if the same arguement applies to the Australian Womens Cricket Team who are currently world #1 in their forms of the game.

Are they taking funds away from the mens team?

 

[muzby]

I'm curious to hear if the same arguement applies to the Australian Womens Cricket Team who are currently world #1 in their forms of the game.

Are they taking funds away from the mens team?

No, but I’m sure Carlton will tell us those funds could be better used to help upgrade his local indoor cricket centre..

 

[Willow]

And where did I say I have never seen a womens game? There were spectators but I dont think there must have been as many as the game you attended.

Well I was having trouble getting an answer to the question. Still am.

It was the first standalone NRLW game. It's about the growth, remember? The crowd was good, noisy and into it. The kids loved it. Leichhardt provided a great venue, well catered for beer-wise, and the weather was beaut.

Get along to a standalone NRLW game. You'll like it.

 

[Carlton]

I'm curious to hear if the same arguement applies to the Australian Womens Cricket Team who are currently world #1 in their forms of the game.

Are they taking funds away from the mens team?

I dont really follow cricket and cant comment on that situation.

By the way I am not talking about taking funds away from the mens team. I am talking about taking funds and focus away from the grass roots.

 

[Carlton]

Well I was having trouble getting an answer to the question. Still am.

It was the first standalone NRLW game. It's about the growth, remember? The crowd was good, noisy and into it. The kids loved it. Leichhardt provided a great venue, well catered for beer-wise, and the weather was beaut.

Get along to a standalone NRLW game. You'll like it.

I did answer, what didn't you understand?

 

[Carlton]

No, but I’m sure Carlton will tell us those funds could be better used to help upgrade his local indoor cricket centre..

Once again a nonsense reply.

If other posters dont agree with my opinion thats fine but, at least listen to what my argument was about.

My concern is with the over emphasis on "Elite" competitions to the detriment of the grass roots. Having a myriad of forced "elite" competitions without a strong grass roots means eventually we will not have a game.

 

[muzby]

Once again a nonsense reply.

If other posters dont agree with my opinion thats fine but, at least listen to what my argument was about.

My concern is with the over emphasis on "Elite" competitions to the detriment of the grass roots. Having a myriad of forced "elite" competitions without a strong grass roots means eventually we will not have a game.

But there’s the issue - we don’t have a myriad of elite competitions for league, as you put it.

We have one for men, and one for women.

Your argument is that the women shouldn’t be entitled to have an elite comp of their own and I’m yet to hear a valid reason why not...

 

[Carlton]

But there’s the issue - we

We have one for men, and one for women.

Your argument is that the women shouldn’t be entitled to have an elite comp of their own and I’m yet to hear a valid reason why not...

Again you are trying to twist what has been said.

Not once have I said the women should never have an elite competition. If you had paid attention you would notice I think the NRL focus too much on ALL elite competitions to the detriment of grass roots.

The stance that I think is wrong is that an elite comp will mean you have a strong grass roots. But, I think you need to have a strong grass roots to have a strong elite comp and then the game will have a future.

The NRL/clubs are spending millions on a 4 team 4 game comp and, I dont care whether its men, women, under 20's, over 40s, that could be used to help stem the decline of league. Get the grass roots working and I believe an elite comp would evolve naturally where all NRL clubs can field a Womens team which, in the long run, would be more sustainable.