Dragons sign Korbin Sims

[The Damo]

I don't have it in for Millward as such I just can't abide the adulation he gets over some of the signings and Korbin Sims is one of those signings IMO.
We have deficiencies in 2 - 5 and it may in fact cost us a comp this year so get back to me when he signs a stellar centre and / or winger as it is blatantly obvious we will not be developing anyone in our own ranks.
Also get back to me when Millward signs a great player from under another clubs nose because as far as I can see we have signed some handy players but we didn't exactly pinch them.


Go back and have a read several clearly saying "upgrade".
Now maybe I'm being harsh but "replaces / replacement" IMO means equal to or better than and IMO Korbin is neither and nowhere near the quality of LAM in consistency.
Korbin may in time prove to be a worthy replacement for LAM but if you had the choice of keeping LAM would you have taken it over purchasing Korbin?
If the answer is yes then it is neither a replacement nor is it an upgrade it is just a signing and we we are in fact worse off in the deal.
This place has many people that think incoming is always better than outgoing.

Have been reading, and even went back and skimmed the first 5 pages. There’s just one who says better, and 50+ who don’t. So I reckon it’s a clear exaggeration to claim that many or even several people are saying upgrade.
The other thing is we didn’t have the choice between Sims and LAM, LAM chose elsewhere and all accounts say it wasn’t based on money. The choice was between off contract forwards, and at the likely price range we’d have been looking at he’d definitely be in the top handful of players available. Therefore - good signing. Given those parameters - off contract, established first grader, probably in the 250-350k range - who would be better?

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Good on you.
Anthing that may help

This may include a (James) Reyne dance or two.

 

[dragonssamy61]

This may include a (James) Reyne dance or two.

Thats ok jimmy no one will understand a word he sings lol

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Thats ok jimmy no one will understand a word he sings lol

As long as a person isn’t illiterate, there shouldn’t be a problem. The lyrics are contained within the albums.

Jimmy Barnes, on the other hand....

 

[jak]

Ashton debuted for us at a very young age, he may have even been 17 when he debuted for us. I thought he was going to really good.

yep your right,but even then the talk was his kid brother was the best of the three tariq hardly got a mention.so with korbin his best may be yet to come.

 

[Old Timer]

I mean, a certain halfback, a current NSW prop, a current NSW second-rower and a British veteran prop come to mind.... But anyway, It's not always about recruiting marquee players from other clubs, it's often about retention of your quality players and juniors. Frizell, De Belin, Aitken, Mann, Widdop, Field, Dufty, Host, Leilua, Kerr, Robson... All of these guys have been retained under Millward, and I can tell you for fact they all attracted a lot of interest from other clubs. That is JUST as important as signing a big name player, if not more so. If we lost any one of those guys, you (amongst others hiding in the woodwork) would have been straight on here to lay the blame and pressure onto Millward. The poor guy can't win either way.

Korbin was the best possible replacement for Ah Mau at that price range, guys like TPJ... Klemmer... Taupau, they are all pipe-dreams who will be demanding too much money, thus throwing our cap completely out of whack. Then we end up losing the young, quality players you talk about.

Well Tom for us it is all about recruiting big names from other clubs because without them we will not be winning a comp any time soon as the coach is incapable of using the juniors that have been retained.
I agree that keeping the youth within the system and retaining the back bone of the good players we have is essential but I do not see signing Korbin as something to get excited about as he ain't going to win us a comp.
Whilst you say Korbin was the best available and you use price as a determining factor then I disagree as we had plenty left under the cap and could have gone for a marquis signing as I certainly do not see Graham as a starting prop option next year.
We replaced LAM with a lesser quality player and say that's ok but I pose the question why not a marquis signing who will put pressure on an incumbent and force him to fight for a starting spot?
Graham for LAM and sign a SOO quality prop as starting player or is that just too much to ask for?

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

All good points except for the TPA's @ 1.5 Mill...most clubs can't raise that amount...maybe TPA's only for 2 marquee players per side although the players union won't allow that because of restraint of trade...

NRL should put minimal values on certain players so that an Origin players cannot be signed for unders...

its a tough one to fix.

No I realise that, but all the same, the amount of total TPAs should be capped.
I'd like to see the amount the Roosters throw on top of thier cap through TPAs.

 

[dragonssamy61]

As long as a person isn’t illiterate, there shouldn’t be a problem. The lyrics are contained within the albums.

Jimmy Barnes, on the other hand....

Thats the only way mate.
But love there music

 

[TomRedVRiver]

Well Tom for us it is all about recruiting big names from other clubs because without them we will not be winning a comp any time soon as the coach is incapable of using the juniors that have been retained.
I agree that keeping the youth within the system and retaining the back bone of the good players we have is essential but I do not see signing Korbin as something to get excited about as he ain't going to win us a comp.
Whilst you say Korbin was the best available and you use price as a determining factor then I disagree as we had plenty left under the cap and could have gone for a marquis signing as I certainly do not see Graham as a starting prop option next year.
We replaced LAM with a lesser quality player and say that's ok but I pose the question why not a marquis signing who will put pressure on an incumbent and force him to fight for a starting spot?
Graham for LAM and sign a SOO quality prop as starting player or is that just too much to ask for?

That's because a lot of the juniors that have been retained are either not good enough, or are behind international and SOO quality players. Hosty for example, good player, but stuck behind Sims and Frizell. Jai Field, plain and simple not good enough. Josh Kerr, Not good enough either, but still stuck behind Graham, Vaughan, Ah Mau and Mr Consistent Jeremy Latimore. In our backs, I agree, guys like Herbert deserve a shot, but I can guarantee you for absolute certain that Lomax was in line for that right wing spot before he got injured. Mary wants him out there.

How could you possibly know that we have plenty of cap space? Like genuinely, people just guess in this place and it's so frustrating. You have no idea, I have no idea, but what I do completely understand is the concept of cap management. If we go out there and sign a marquee prop, then what about the rest of the roster we have to retain? What about these young players and their potential contract upgrades? What if there are no marquee forwards on the market at all... And if there are some available, what if they just don't want to come to our club, or there are other motives, like where the player's family is based.
If we just splash our money around, we'll end up like the Bulldogs.

It's not as simple as "just sign a marquee player". It's a process.

 

[Old Timer]

That's because a lot of the juniors that have been retained are either not good enough, or are behind international and SOO quality players. Hosty for example, good player, but stuck behind Sims and Frizell. Jai Field, plain and simple not good enough. Josh Kerr, Not good enough either, but still stuck behind Graham, Vaughan, Ah Mau and Mr Consistent Jeremy Latimore. In our backs, I agree, guys like Herbert deserve a shot, but I can guarantee you for absolute certain that Lomax was in line for that right wing spot before he got injured. Mary wants him out there.

How could you possibly know that we have plenty of cap space? Like genuinely, people just guess in this place and it's so frustrating. You have no idea, I have no idea, but what I do completely understand is the concept of cap management. If we go out there and sign a marquee prop, then what about the rest of the roster we have to retain? What about these young players and their potential contract upgrades? What if there are no marquee forwards on the market at all... And if there are some available, what if they just don't want to come to our club, or there are other motives, like where the player's family is based.
If we just splash our money around, we'll end up like the Bulldogs.

It's not as simple as "just sign a marquee player". It's a process.

Many of the younger players have already been secured so their upgrades are done and dusted as was the case with many of our long term players.
It was reported early in the season we had plenty left under the cap after Thommo left and in in light of no significant purchase then that surely must still be the case?
With losing LAM and an ageing Graham who IMO provides a lot of guidance etc on the field but offers not a great deal in attack then IMO we are certainly short 1 very high quality prop and Sims doesn't cut it.
As I say we sign "handy" players and not many marquis players and I see the excuses / reasons you offer above but that's why Millward gets paid for, managing the cap and doing the deals that entice better quality players to our club.
We replaced LAM why didn't we upgrade considering we all know our forward rotation is light on especially up front?

 

[dragonssamy61]

That's because a lot of the juniors that have been retained are either not good enough, or are behind international and SOO quality players. Hosty for example, good player, but stuck behind Sims and Frizell. Jai Field, plain and simple not good enough. Josh Kerr, Not good enough either, but still stuck behind Graham, Vaughan, Ah Mau and Mr Consistent Jeremy Latimore. In our backs, I agree, guys like Herbert deserve a shot, but I can guarantee you for absolute certain that Lomax was in line for that right wing spot before he got injured. Mary wants him out there.

How could you possibly know that we have plenty of cap space? Like genuinely, people just guess in this place and it's so frustrating. You have no idea, I have no idea, but what I do completely understand is the concept of cap management. If we go out there and sign a marquee prop, then what about the rest of the roster we have to retain? What about these young players and their potential contract upgrades? What if there are no marquee forwards on the market at all... And if there are some available, what if they just don't want to come to our club, or there are other motives, like where the player's family is based.
If we just splash our money around, we'll end up like the Bulldogs.

It's not as simple as "just sign a marquee player". It's a process.

Tom also a lot of players will have clause that when they make rep team there salary goes up.
Especially with guys like Vaughan Jdb and sims making soo.

 

[Drakon]

Many of the younger players have already been secured so their upgrades are done and dusted as was the case with many of our long term players.
It was reported early in the season we had plenty left under the cap after Thommo left and in in light of no significant purchase then that surely must still be the case?
With losing LAM and an ageing Graham who IMO provides a lot of guidance etc on the field but offers not a great deal in attack then IMO we are certainly short 1 very high quality prop and Sims doesn't cut it.
As I say we sign "handy" players and not many marquis players and I see the excuses / reasons you offer above but that's why Millward gets paid for, managing the cap and doing the deals that entice better quality players to our club.
We replaced LAM why didn't we upgrade considering we all know our forward rotation is light on especially up front?

A marquee player is an athlete who is considered exceptionally popular, skilled, or otherwise outstanding, especially in professional sport.

Marquis - (in some European countries) a nobleman ranking above a count and below a duke.

Sounds like Graham is the closest thing we may have to a Marquis player although Vaughan has Italian heritage.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

Many of the younger players have already been secured so their upgrades are done and dusted as was the case with many of our long term players.
It was reported early in the season we had plenty left under the cap after Thommo left and in in light of no significant purchase then that surely must still be the case?
With losing LAM and an ageing Graham who IMO provides a lot of guidance etc on the field but offers not a great deal in attack then IMO we are certainly short 1 very high quality prop and Sims doesn't cut it.
As I say we sign "handy" players and not many marquis players and I see the excuses / reasons you offer above but that's why Millward gets paid for, managing the cap and doing the deals that entice better quality players to our club.
We replaced LAM why didn't we upgrade considering we all know our forward rotation is light on especially up front?

Seriously, you've met out club haven't you?
I was surprised when we splashed out on Hunt, we got Graham for a song, another big signing at this stage is beyond us.
Add to that the limited players on the market and here we are.
Sims is a good signing in my humble opinion.
Look at what we have done with his brother and Vauhgan, turned also rans into SOO forwards.
Maybe we can do the same with Korbin, who is, as has been pointed out, the best of the brothers, and at only 26 is coming into his prime.

I think this is a good signing, at least as good as Ah Mau, who lets be honest, has only came into his own this year.

 

[Frank Facer]

I agree our 2-5 is a problem - i also think there are glaring deficiencies in our 11/12

Sims for all his form this year is still better in the middle than on the edge, we just dont have a better option on the edge .. Would kill for a 2nd rower with ball skills to play there ... That bloke and a prop rotation of Vaughan/Sims/Sims/Graham would give us much better balance. There is too much of a drop between AhMau and Latimore in our prop rotation ... Latimore is going ok but we have potentially a better prop rotation with the Sims boys in the middle.

At the beginning of the season, I was of the opinion that Sims was better suited in the middle too, but since he has been moved to the left edge, I think he has been the form secondrower in the comp. He is scoring tries and making breaks on the edge. He also stiffens up our left hand edge in defence. I actually think he would make a great lock.

I think Frizell is more suited to the middle and I think lock would be his best position. I wouldn't mind seeing him moved to prop, but I am also happy with him on in the secondrow. It would be good to see him hitting some holes on the left edge and being more effective in attack, but he likes to run straight and hard or even back to the middle.

With Frizell and Sims as our secondrowers it gives us a very strong, tough pack.

 

[True_Believer]

Seriously, you've met out club haven't you?
I was surprised when we splashed out on Hunt, we got Graham for a song, another big signing at this stage is beyond us.
Add to that the limited players on the market and here we are.
Sims is a good signing in my humble opinion.
Look at what we have done with his brother and Vauhgan, turned also rans into SOO forwards.
Maybe we can do the same with Korbin, who is, as has been pointed out, the best of the brothers, and at only 26 is coming into his prime.

I think this is a good signing, at least as good as Ah Mau, who lets be honest, has only came into his own this year.

I would actually say the last 2 years. How many on here were saying that he was a plodder when we first got him and wanted him gone? Now they're screaming not to let him go. It took a few years to get him to this stage - as they say, we've had him at the peak of his career and I'm sure we did everything to keep him here. But as has been stated by the man himself, there were other factors at play that we just couldn't compete with.

As you have pointed out, Vaughn (27) and Sims (28) are playing out of their skins - but only since coming to the dragons. And this is the age players in these positions are at their best. Korbin (26) should be starting to his peak in the next year or 2 and we'll have a formidable rotation - at least as good as we have now.

I believe Lawrie (21), Sele (21), Host (21) and whoever else we have coming through in the forwards have a few more years to go before we could consider them definite starters or bench players. A long time to go before they hit their peak.

 

[Shulman]

Well Tom for us it is all about recruiting big names from other clubs because without them we will not be winning a comp any time soon as the coach is incapable of using the juniors that have been retained.
I agree that keeping the youth within the system and retaining the back bone of the good players we have is essential but I do not see signing Korbin as something to get excited about as he ain't going to win us a comp.
Whilst you say Korbin was the best available and you use price as a determining factor then I disagree as we had plenty left under the cap and could have gone for a marquis signing as I certainly do not see Graham as a starting prop option next year.
We replaced LAM with a lesser quality player and say that's ok but I pose the question why not a marquis signing who will put pressure on an incumbent and force him to fight for a starting spot?
Graham for LAM and sign a SOO quality prop as starting player or is that just too much to ask for?

Is everything really about winning comps? For me it’s about week to week and that feeling you get from a win. 8 years since we last won one. I was 44 back then. You get over a win as quick as you do a loss

 

[Drag Queen]

Drag Queen , I thought that it was a longer contract , however I have a sneaking suspicion that we will hear more about that during the off-season .

Just found out he has been sidelined with a fractured neck since March and is just back training now. Not good for the big guy and probably why his contract is up in the air Gareth.

 

[Lovemedragons]

Its never worked.. and TBH you cannot police it entirely. Creative accountants will always find a way around things.

Can't they take it out of the accountants hands by having a nominated value for every player, set by an independent panel. Clubs can pay them whatever they can but their nominated value is what counts to the salary cap. Is this too simple?

 

[getsmarty]

Can't they take it out of the accountants hands by having a nominated value for every player, set by an independent panel. Clubs can pay them whatever they can but their nominated value is what counts to the salary cap. Is this too simple?

Players union will call it restraint of trade as you may be limiting a players earning potential...otherwise I like your ideas.

 

[possm]

Why is it OK for people to express how happy they are with Dufty, or criticse any other player in the team but its not OK to say I dont like the idea of taking a risk at fullback and dont like just hoping it all comes good?

Both Dufty and Field need to bulk up substantially if either are to be our fullback. In my humble opinion it is Lomax that looks most likely to be our long term fullback.