Dragons Squad June 30 Deadline

[Wittenberg]

Don’t forget about Eddie Blacker as a prop, only 19 but very good. Him, Timm andKerr should all get a go till seasons end if they don’t make the grade them let them go.

Timm I think will make the grade next year but Blacker has not been seen and is young for the forwards at present and Kerr is lumbering and slow off the ground. From what I have seen, and maybe I have seen him in the wrong games, he works for about ten minutes and is simply a bigger version of Latimore. He is no saviour. I hope I am wrong but he is no long term answer and needs to be let go.

As I said Timm will be a NRL player and with luck so will Saab but I see little value in throwing them into a team that is already out of the reckoning and which is playing with no confidence. Gaining experience in a team going backwards would not help their self belief and, more importantly, neither, as yet, are they ready for a step up to the NRL. Using them because those in front of them are currently stuffed is, in my opinion, misguided. What they need to be told is that 2020 is their year. And we need to stick to that commitment.

 

[possm]

Duffy has improved somewhat in that mostly he doesn’t try to simply run around players as he did in the Under 10s and he is trying to go to the ground quickly when challenged near the line. His defence even has improved slightly, but he still plays the ball incredibly slowly and loses us a tackle every time as whoever gets the ball next has opponents all over him. Most importantly he does not trail players up the middle or target tired forwards in the last 15 minutes. He is such a gifted and dangerous runner of the ball but these weaknesses do not seem to be addressed. Sometimes a player does not learn but surely our coaches should.

Dufty has shown improvement in his positional play which really impressed me last game however, his defence is largely ineffective and he is effective in attack only in broken play these days.

My tip is that Lomax will eventually be our long term solution at fullback and Saab will be our preferred left side winger or centre. Pereira, Pearson, Ravalawa will all have to compete from reserve grade in 2020. SGI should offload Aitken and Lafai ASAP and replace them with top grade centre/wingers. I'd say Dufty will have to be content with playing fullback in reserve grade and filling the role a backup to Lomax.

At SGI we need a person like Gould to come in and sort out the mess. Potential recruits and new juniors coming through need to have confidence that SGI will have coaching and management staff that will support their desires to both improve their game and support their career asperations in a positive way.

 

[Wittenberg]

Dufty has shown improvement in his positional play which really impressed me last game however, his defence is largely ineffective and he is effective in attack only in broken play these days.

My tip is that Lomax will eventually be our long term solution at fullback and Saab will be our preferred left side winger or centre. Pereira, Pearson, Ravalawa will all have to compete from reserve grade in 2020. SGI should offload Aitken and Lafai ASAP and replace them with top grade centre/wingers. I'd say Dufty will have to be content with playing fullback in reserve grade and filling the role a backup to Lomax.

At SGI we need a person like Gould to come in and sort out the mess. Potential recruits and new juniors coming through need to have confidence that SGI will have coaching and management staff that will support their desires to both improve their game and support their career asperations in a positive way.

Possm I agree with most of what you say. I’d say that our staff need to discuss with Saab and Timm their future path and commit to them been given a start in first grade next year.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I have been doing some thinking about our salary cap and next year's team. We have Widdop off contract on what some say is 950K a year. I would be tapping Graham on the shoulder and telling him that this is his last year. He was on a reported 600K a year at Canterbury, but while Graham was on a recent Foxtel footy show, some compares were joking that Canterbury is still paying some of his wage. I would be releasing Lafai, Aitken, Dufty and Pereira. Latimore is also off contract. I will estimate

Widdop 950K
Lafai 450K
Aitken 400K
Pereira 200K
Latimore 200K
Graham 600K*
Dufty 250K

That adds up to 3.05 mil. Add DeBelin's dispensation and we could be up to 3.6

Now this would be my shopping list

Rapana $550K
D Walker $550K
Pangai $ 800K
RCG $500K
M'au $400K

Add 200K for Saab's upgrade.

That would leave 600K for another centre. I would be playing Lomax at fullback.

If I was coach, I would have either gone to watch some of Shiller's games and or asked for video replays of them. I would want to be getting a gauge on him to see if he is our long term fullback and if we should keep Lomax at centre. He is playing against grown men this year, so Maybe, with a captial M, he could be fast tracked into our team next year. Special players can play first grade when they are 18, especially outside backs.

I would like to see Rava given a run at centre over the next few games, while Lafai and Lomax are both out. Maybe, we could have a good centre on our hands and don't even know it.

So this is what I would be looking towards for next year.

1 Lomax
2 Rapana
3 Walker
4 Yet to be signed centre for up to 600K/Lomax
5 Saab
6 Hunt
7 Norman
13 DeBelin/Frizell
12 T Sims
11 Frizell/Mau
10 Pangai
9 McInnes
8 Vaughan

14 Mau/Ford/Host
15 Leilua
16 K Sims
17 RCG


20 Marsters
21 Field
22 Timm
23 Ravalawa

I know those prices are just estimates, some may be higher and others lower. All of the players I would sign are off contract at the end of this season, besides the unknown centre. I really like the look of that team too.

I would also obviously like us to sign a new coach. Flanagan would be my target, if he could get a clearance. Other than that there are not any other experienced coaches that really grab my fancy. I would like to see Demetriou given a shot. Griffin and Toovey could both be considered. Someone on this site previously suggested that Ryles could be our next coach with Fitzgibbon his assistant. I would be open to that.

edit. I just read BLM's post before I wrote this one. Maybe RCG isn't the right idea. I would have to find another good prop for around 500K. That is good money for bench prop.

Frank, you realise that
(A) a large proportion of Widdops salary will go to Norman.
(B) lafai, Aitken, Periera, Graham and Dufty would be under contract, so any "shopping" of them around would mean us contributing to their salary at their new club. Admittingly, Graham may retire but thats his call according to his contract.
(C) who would really WANT to come and play for us? A team struggling to avoid the spoon.

Again we have to go into "overs" territory to attract a player. Hell,cwe couldn't even land RFM, how would we be in the running for Pangai?

We have to face the facts that we are heading down the Newcastle path of 2015-2017, reliance on juniors as nobody other than old journeymen wanting their final paycheck.

We all may have a shopping list, but in reality we will lose more of our young stars than what we will recruit.

 

[BLM01]

For starters if you want Pangai, we will have to be paying him at least 800K to lure him here and even then we may even need some TPA's to go with it.

Please tell me, of players off contract at the end of this season who would be on your shopping list for next year. Anyone else is welcome to show us their shopping list too.

I will add that I previously suggested Flegger from Brisbane. He has now resigned with them. He would have been a great bench prop with upside. Uele is another who was off contract, but Cronulla recently resigned him. I would have taken him too. We have to get in quick.

You tell me who is off contract and then I will chose apart from Pangai who I think is overrated at 800K..so if that is his fee no thanks.
For budget buys i would resign our Kerr, Blacker & Timm for another year, yeah Robson if he has not gone to the Cowboys officially?..that is it from the Dragons,
Mau from Parra, Su'a from Broncos...dont know who else available apart from all those others being shopped around in the media

 

[Carlton]

Frank, you realise that
(A) a large proportion of Widdops salary will go to Norman.
(B) lafai, Aitken, Periera, Graham and Dufty would be under contract, so any "shopping" of them around would mean us contributing to their salary at their new club. Admittingly, Graham may retire but thats his call according to his contract.
(C) who would really WANT to come and play for us? A team struggling to avoid the spoon.

Again we have to go into "overs" territory to attract a player. Hell,cwe couldn't even land RFM, how would we be in the running for Pangai?

We have to face the facts that we are heading down the Newcastle path of 2015-2017, reliance on juniors as nobody other than old journeymen wanting their final paycheck.

We all may have a shopping list, but in reality we will lose more of our young stars than what we will recruit.

Norman does not take up a large part of Widdops Salary next year. We already have him at $500K and Widdop at $950K thats a total of $1450K this year next year we have Norman at $700K thats $750K freed up from Widdop's salary.

 

[possm]

For those members who are promoting the idea that Mary, not Millward, has the major say in recruitment and then point to Maranta as an example of Mary's poor judgement and to Vaughan as Millward's brilliance, I say that this is very selective thinking and not the true account of the matter.

Let me just point to the most obvious example of the dynamix on this. For example go back to the Dugan public argument between Mary and Millward over the extension of Dugan. You might recall that Dugan wanted fullback money and wanted to be selected at fullback in first grade. Mary publically supported Dugan's position. Millward on the other hand insisted Dugan is now a centre - with Field to be our next fullback - and Dugan's salary should reflect the top market price of a centre in the NRL rather than a fullback. Millward had a take it or leave it on this matter and Mary had a support Dugan on this matter.

Guess who won the argument, yes it was Millward. To me not an indication that Millward reported to Mary in any way at all. Dugan moved on and Millward was proved to be right on the substance of his argument however, he also demonstrated at the time that he is the one who makes the decisions on recruitment/pathways/retention.

Here is a question that maybe a fellow member may be able to answer as I do not have an answer for it. What happened to the salary cap of 750k that was being paid to and proposed to continue to be paid to Dugan? Bearing in mind that Dufty was the eventual fullback, Nightingale who was already on salary filled in for a time, Aitken - right centre the position where Millward wanted Dugan to play - was already on salary.

Maybe Mary started to shut up when Millward said if Dugan stays it will be at right centre and Aitken will have to go (not be extended). To me Millward assumed the dominant role after he was appointed the Director of …………...

 

[Walpole]

The way things are at the moment, it doesn't matter who we buy.

You don't need to spend 800k on wingers and centres if you have effective game plans and structures in place. We have a good hooker and two halves (three if you count Widdop) capable of driving and creating play but without any direction from the coach we are not going to break down or compete with the best (or even mid-table) teams.

Melbourne have shown time and again, with two or three of top class players running the show (Smith and Munster at the moment), as long as the rest of the team knows their job and are well coached and drilled, the rest falls into place. We just do not have this.

Someone like Campbell Graham would be well down the pecking order at the Bunnies so the type of player we might be able to grab, but it probably wouldn't be long before he was looking like a reserve grader. It's going to be a long season and even longer next two years.

 

[Frank Facer]

You tell me who is off contract and then I will chose apart from Pangai who I think is overrated at 800K..so if that is his fee no thanks.
For budget buys i would resign our Kerr, Blacker & Timm for another year, yeah Robson if he has not gone to the Cowboys officially?..that is it from the Dragons,
Mau from Parra, Su'a from Broncos...dont know who else available apart from all those others being shopped around in the media

Here is a list of players from their respective clubs who are off contract at the end of the season.
https://www.nospam21.com/rugby-league/players/off-contract-2019/

It won't let the link work. Just go to Zero Tackle and then scroll your mouse onto the player movements title and then click on off contract. Then you will be able to see a list of players off contract at the end of the season, according to Zero Tackle.

 

[Frank Facer]

Frank, you realise that
(A) a large proportion of Widdops salary will go to Norman.
(B) lafai, Aitken, Periera, Graham and Dufty would be under contract, so any "shopping" of them around would mean us contributing to their salary at their new club. Admittingly, Graham may retire but thats his call according to his contract.
(C) who would really WANT to come and play for us? A team struggling to avoid the spoon.

Again we have to go into "overs" territory to attract a player. Hell,cwe couldn't even land RFM, how would we be in the running for Pangai?

We have to face the facts that we are heading down the Newcastle path of 2015-2017, reliance on juniors as nobody other than old journeymen wanting their final paycheck.

We all may have a shopping list, but in reality we will lose more of our young stars than what we will recruit.

I forgot about having to pay Norman extra out of next year's cap. I thought it would have been around 350K extra, but at least one person on this site thinks it is 200K extra.

If a player leaves us while still under contract, if he can secure a contract of the same amount or more, than we wouldn't have to contribute to his salary. Maybe Lafai could get 450K on the open market and maybe Manly or someone will pay Aitken 400K or more. I only accounted for 250K for Dufty and 200K for Pereira. I think they could get close to that somewhere else. I did attempt to be as realistic as possible with my estimations.

We should not be losing any young stars that we wish to keep. The only young star that we may have lost recently is Robson and that lies with Mary, who has a thing for McInnes. Garrick is going well for Manly on the wing and I would have liked to see him get a run here, but he isn't any star yet. I don't think Herbert will have a long first grade career. Sele is another who isn't any lose.

I don't agree with you that we are heading down the same path to Newcastle 2015-17 at all. I think we have the nucleus of a very good side. We have a good pair of halves and much much better than Newcastle had at the same time. Even without DeBelin we have a very strong pack, although Graham is ageing. Hopefully we can sign M'au as DeBelin's short term replacement and use the dispensation to cover his salary. Lomax is the only outside back we have who has been playing first grade. Saab looks a good prospect. Our current pack, even without DeBelin shits on Newcastle's 2015-2017. Both us and Newcastle went to shit after Bennett left, Brisbane did twice too, there certainly is a pattern there. I actually think we would be an attractive proposition for many players. Maybe being located in Woolongong is a disadvantage when trying to recruit players? A new coach could help too. I think if we recruited the players I suggested, had DeBelin reinstated and a different coach (anyone), we would be a genuine top 4 material and even premiership contenders.

I am happy we didn't land RFM.

 

[stevedragon]

I disagree and would say, the best way for Leilua to realize his full potential is for SGI to replace Mary with a top line head coach. Leilua is one of our most promising junior forwards and we have spent a lot of time and money to get him this far. I see him as having the potential to be one of the most damaging and creative props in the NRL.

I agree. All we need is a coach who knows what he's doing and can develop these young kids into FG players. We have the talent, don't lose them. Simply solution, change coaches.

 

[SET2JT]

Whats the go with everyone slamming Duftys defence?
If the 12 other guys infront of him can't tackle the bloke, why should he?

 

[Carlton]

I agree. All we need is a coach who knows what he's doing and can develop these young kids into FG players. We have the talent, don't lose them. Simply solution, change coaches.

I couldn't agree more that we need a new coach and new assistants.

But this is not all thats needed to bring the juniors through to first grade. More importantly you need to be targeting the right ones in the first place and to be honest I dont think many of our juniors are really potential top flight first graders.

Too many posters think that our juniors are world beaters that just haven't been given a go. A problem we have with our juniors isnt letting them go its the opposite, its hanging on to them for too long. The juniors should be a production line bring them in assess them and if in doubt move them on. Some mistakes will be made but overall the mistakes of losing the wrong one compared to keeping the wrong one for too long would be a net gain.

 

[Lethal25]

P

Dufty has shown improvement in his positional play which really impressed me last game however, his defence is largely ineffective and he is effective in attack only in broken play these days.

My tip is that Lomax will eventually be our long term solution at fullback and Saab will be our preferred left side winger or centre. Pereira, Pearson, Ravalawa will all have to compete from reserve grade in 2020. SGI should offload Aitken and Lafai ASAP and replace them with top grade centre/wingers. I'd say Dufty will have to be content with playing fullback in reserve grade and filling the role a backup to Lomax.

At SGI we need a person like Gould to come in and sort out the mess. Potential recruits and new juniors coming through need to have confidence that SGI will have coaching and management staff that will support their desires to both improve their game and support their career asperations in a positive way.

Possm, Dufty ran for 73m against Manly. Of that 73m you have to imagine a large chunk of it was from kick returns. He is showing no signs of support play which for a modern day fullback is a base requirement. Unless he changes drastically Dufty is neither a short term or long term consideration, he needs to be dropped now

 

[BLM01]

P

Possm, Dufty ran for 73m against Manly. Of that 73m you have to imagine a large chunk of it was from kick returns. He is showing no signs of support play which for a modern day fullback is a base requirement. Unless he changes drastically Dufty is neither a short term or long term consideration, he needs to be dropped now

How can he support when team instructions are no 2nd phase and get ready in position for the staged tackle 4 or 5 attack play.. I agree with you but our forwards dont look for 2nd phase or offloads at the line..poking their nose through or at the line at least. All our forwards do is pass it before the line in a set play.

 

[possm]

Frank, you realise that
(A) a large proportion of Widdops salary will go to Norman.
(B) lafai, Aitken, Periera, Graham and Dufty would be under contract, so any "shopping" of them around would mean us contributing to their salary at their new club. Admittingly, Graham may retire but thats his call according to his contract.
(C) who would really WANT to come and play for us? A team struggling to avoid the spoon.

Again we have to go into "overs" territory to attract a player. Hell,cwe couldn't even land RFM, how would we be in the running for Pangai?

We have to face the facts that we are heading down the Newcastle path of 2015-2017, reliance on juniors as nobody other than old journeymen wanting their final paycheck.

We all may have a shopping list, but in reality we will lose more of our young stars than what we will recruit.

Well sorry I don't agree. Send each of them to reserve grade for the remainder of the year and let them know that the head coach can't see them being selected in first grade in 2020. Let them know that we will grant a release if they can find a club but won't be subsidising their salary.

With Widdop and possibly Graham departing and with Saab and possibly Ford, Kerr and Timm coming through we can just use the best options we have available in 2020.

Millward has mucked up our squad by not recruiting first grade replacements 'like for like' before signing depth players. He should also consider promoting a local junior before recruit a player like Maranta.

 

[BLM01]

Here is a list of players from their respective clubs who are off contract at the end of the season.
https://www.nospam21.com/rugby-league/players/off-contract-2019/

It won't let the link work. Just go to Zero Tackle and then scroll your mouse onto the player movements title and then click on off contract. Then you will be able to see a list of players off contract at the end of the season, according to Zero Tackle.

Ok my quick look and take of players off contract and for depth. bargain buys for 1sts and reserves IMO

Brisbane - Oates, Mago
Canberra - Bateman, Kris
Dogs - Fualalo
Sharks - Capewell, Sorenson
Titans - Jacks
Manly - Cust, Gosiewski,
Storm - Kaufusi, Vete
Warriors - Lawton, Paasi
Cows - GMG
Eels - Manu, French, Moeroa, Stone, Terepo
Panthers - Naden
Souths - Tracey
Dragons - Blacker, Kerr, Lomax, Marsters, Robson, Sailor
Roosters - Ikalavu, Tetevano
Tigers - Aloiai

There you go enough there to pick from and improve opur squad

 

[st.phil]

not for june 30 but 2020 - keen on rapana, capewell, RCG and papenhausen

release duff, aitken

 

[Ascalon]

How can he support when team instructions are no 2nd phase and get ready in position for the staged tackle 4 or 5 attack play.. I agree with you but our forwards dont look for 2nd phase or offloads at the line..poking their nose through or at the line at least. All our forwards do is pass it before the line in a set play.

Korbin poked through the defence on the line and had time to look both ways on the weekend and no one was trailing. If there had been someone they would have been untouched. It is indicative of the team’s attitude. Another example is at marker. Marker is one of the most important aspects of the game to get right. Our marker defence is pathetic and lazy and as such we leak points up the middle as good coaches have identified this. Ponga cut us to pieces around the ruck. There has been no improvement in this area despite it being highlighted several times this year. McGregor can’t coach or the team isn’t buying what he is selling. A fish rots from the head down ...

 

[BLM01]

Korbin poked through the defence on the line and had time to look both ways on the weekend and no one was trailing. If there had been someone they would have been untouched. It is indicative of the team’s attitude. Another example is at marker. Marker is one of the most important aspects of the game to get right. Our marker defence is pathetic and lazy and as such we leak points up the middle as good coaches have identified this. Ponga cut us to pieces around the ruck. There has been no improvement in this area despite it being highlighted several times this year. McGregor can’t coach or the team isn’t buying what he is selling. A fish rots from the head down ...

Dont disagree with your thoughts. Korbin came from a club that promoted the football.
Players in our side are instructed to not get out of position and get set up for the plays..and when an opportunity like Koirbin presented as yopu said no one in sight.
All comes down to the coach..not Dufty